It's been pointed out that not everyone votes on the new submissions according to what the poll question suggests (currently: "did you like watching this movie?"), or even interprets it literally. Since there is no statistics for that issue yet, here's a poll aimed to gather it in order to help improving, if need be, the current situation.
So everyone — and active users especially — please answer the question and state your opinions (and, if possible, elaborate on the reasons for them). In case of answer #2, it'll be good if you share your ideas for a new question, if any.
(I'll state my opinion a bit later to avoid creating premature peer pressure.)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I think this will be a good idea. I personally think the current poll question a bit too vague, however I believe it fits. I think the question should remain "Did you enjoy watching this movie", but that people should be posting why they enjoyed it, what they didn't like about the movie. And also if they believe the movie deserves publishing. Entertainment is the #1 goal on this site if i remember correctly.
I think more detailed responses than "I vote Yes" need to be made. Vague question with a vague answer is meaningless. But the vague question helps the judges understand if it has good entertainment value to the community. And from there they will decide the rest of the quality of the TAS.
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<adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining
<adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
I vote for it to be changed. I think "Do you think this movie should be published?", or something like that would be more suitable. The question is meant to help judges decide the submission's fate, and this question can help just as well. You can take more things into account if the question is changed, such as goals and accuracy... both of these things aren't accounted for in the current question.
Without answering the poll, I'll post here some thoughts I have on the issue.
The question cannot be "should this movie be published".
The person who votes in the poll is not a judge. They are usually able to say how they liked the movie, but they are not able to determine what is good for the site and what is not.
For example, they may think that some movie is bad, but that it should be published anyway because no movie of that game has been done before. Wrong.
Some newbies do not even know what does it mean, "published".
Aren't they already published when the movie is submitted? What sense does it make to move it from one page to another?
Some have even mocked the term "published", as that it constitutes of plastering the site's logo over the movie.
That being said, I recognize that there are shortcomings in the current question too...
Joined: 11/11/2006
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Location: United Kingdom
I find the current question too vague, but I am unsure as to what would be best to replace it. I'm thinking perhaps something along the lines of:
"Did you find this movie to have a high standard of entertainment and quality?"
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I'm of the opinion that both questions- was this entertaining and was this technically precise- should be in the submission discussion. Published Movies are given ratings for both of these qualities, I think submissions should look at both too.
Bisqwit wrote:
The person who votes in the poll is not a judge. They are usually able to say how they liked the movie, but they are not able to determine what is good for the site and what is not.
Unfortunately, many members are stuck up enough to act this way. I won't say names.
Raiscan's question might need some refinement, but the content of that phrasing is what I'm in favor for.
That gives me an idea.
How about abolishing the poll and instead, rating the submission as publications are rated now?
Ratings would transfer/extend to the published movie once it's published.
To better help judges, it could also represent the ratings graphically to show the distribution of votes.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Actually yeah that sounds kind of cool. You wouldn't need to re-rate movies that become published, but it does mean that you still need 40+posts to make any kind of rating on any movie period.
I'm of the opinion that both questions- was this entertaining and was this technically precise- should be in the submission discussion. Published Movies are given ratings for both of these qualities, I think submissions should look at both too.
Yeah, I've had such a thought recently as well. On some other forums I've been visiting I've seen dual polls, so it's well possible, and probably plausible.
Also, my opinion is that the current question fits the most for the reason Deign stated: the #1 goal of the site was entertainment since about the creation of the respective FAQ page. The site doesn't collect all movies, and doesn't just go after the fastest completion of any game, so it makes perfect sense to question submission's entertainment value before publishing. And for reason Bisqwit stated, it's best if a user tells their opinion about the actual product, not its "official" status on the site or other political stuff.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
That gives me an idea.
How about abolishing the poll and instead, rating the submission as publications are rated now?
Is the current yes/meh/no poll for submitted movies kind of super-unofficially a 0%-50%-100% rating, with people who say stuff like "marginal yes vote" kind of going in between those values?
Anyway, I think being able to rate movies is a great idea, though the best idea would be able to take back/change a vote; sometimes first impressions are very different than overall views, IMO.
Is the current yes/meh/no poll for submitted movies kind of super-unofficially a 0%-50%-100% rating, with people who say stuff like "marginal yes vote" kind of going in between those values?
I guess, it might be something like that.
Though the discussion still has a much higher effect on the judging than the numbers or choices can have.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
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I somewhat like the idea of dual polls, or a number system (although I don't know what that number would measure, ie. entertainment value, technical value, overall quality, etc). If the sole question format remains, I think something along the lines of "Do you think this movie would make a quality addition to the site?" might work better than the current question, although I don't know if it would cut down on the people who simply write "I vote yes". So no, I don't like the current question, but I'm not sure I can provide a suitable replacement.
The current question is arbitrary. I prefer "Does this movie provide entertainment and achieve its goals satisfactorily?" because it takes into account how well a TAS accomplishes its goals (i.e. fastest time, % completion, score, etc) and how entertaining a movie is.
Movies that are not entertaining are inherently incongruent with the site's primary goal and therefore are not suitable for publication.
FAQ wrote:
Our primary goals are to create art and provide entertainment.
So if one does not enjoy a submitted movie or if one feels that a movie does not have any aesthetic appeal, voting "No" based on one of the aforementioned reasons is still just as valid of an option as it would be with the current poll.
However, optimization (in relation to fulfilling a movie's goals) in a submitted TAS should also be a key factor in the voting and judging processes, and the current question does not directly stress the element of optimization. This inevitably causes unwarranted arguments between peoples' differences of opinion.
The question "Does this movie provide entertainment and achieve its goals satisfactorily?" is a more thorough question that will assist members and judges in better assessing a submitted movie.
The question "Did you like watching this movie?" is somewhat invalid imo. People who are familiar with the game would rather vote yes than others. And all the movies on this site are speed-oriented ones (and a movie can be entertaining although it's no speedrun).
Because the poll leads to the conclusion whether a movie should be published, the poll should be named "Should this movie be published?" imo.
I voted no on this poll.
Joined: 3/25/2006
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I think we should vote on weather the movie is entertaining. Let the judges worry about optimization. Even if they don't know the game, they can look through the topic associated with the submission for comments about technical standards. The technical standards should only affect the poll if it reduces entertainment.
2 things.
1. I don't like the idea of doing the actual rating of a movie when it's new and has just been submitted. It kinda goes against the current "watch it more than once/be somewhat familiar with it before rating please" guideline which I think is a smart one.
2. "The question cannot be "should this movie be published".
The person who votes in the poll is not a judge. They are usually able to say how they liked the movie, but they are not able to determine what is good for the site and what is not."
This makes no sense. Just because a person is not actually a judge doesn't mean he can't have an opinion, which is probably a good one anyway. Your statement would be very valid if the real judges just went with whatever the poll results indicated, but that's obviously not the case.
Edit: Makes no sense is stupid and harsh. To clarify, while it's true Joe doesn't know what's best for the site, he will generally have a pretty good idea. I find the voting polls to be pretty accurate in general. When/if they're not, the judge should be able to see that I guess.
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
P.JBoy wrote:
I think we should vote on weather the movie is entertaining. Let the judges worry about optimization. Even if they don't know the game, they can look through the topic associated with the submission for comments about technical standards. The technical standards should only affect the poll if it reduces entertainment.
You could always have 2 drop down boxes. One entertainment, one quality/optimization.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Is the current yes/meh/no poll for submitted movies kind of super-unofficially a 0%-50%-100% rating, with people who say stuff like "marginal yes vote" kind of going in between those values?
I guess, it might be something like that.
Though the discussion still has a much higher effect on the judging than the numbers or choices can have.
I'd like to know how you'd differentiate from a two peak bell-curve, vs. single peak. (i.e. the polarized discussion of OoT vs. just a boring movie).
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
