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Posted: 10/16/2004 12:14 PM
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Cazlab
Joined: 7/5/2004
Posts: 551
Location: Karlstad, Sweden
kopernical wrote:
I was just a little annoyed with it when I posted that. I'll probably take a break from it and get back to it sometime. I want to see it done, I just don't want to finish it ;-)
Why? Do u suck at the Wily courses? :>
Posted: 11/1/2004 6:33 AM
(Edited: 11/1/2004 6:55 AM)
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BillBull
Former player
Joined: 5/22/2004
Posts: 462
I plan on making this movie (no kopernical, you can't have a monopoly on the Megaman games :P ) and am currently looking over the route for an optimal one. Here is what I have come up with. Sleepz's route 
GeminiMan
Needleman
Snakeman
Magnetman
Hardman
Topman
Shadowman
Sparkman
Here is the general consensus of the GameFAQs guides 
Magnetman
Hardman
Topman
Shadowman
Sparkman
Snakeman
Gemeniman
Needleman
Here is what I have researched so far about the bosses Magnetman 
28 hits with Needleman
14 hits with Hardman
14 hits with Geminiman
28 hits with Topman
28 hits with Snakeman
4 hits with Sparkman
4 hits with Shadowman
14 hits with Default Weapon
Hardman 
infinite hits with Needleman
28 hits with Geminiman
infinite hits with Topman
infinite hits with Snakeman
infinite hits with Sparkman
infinite hits with Shadowman
7 hits with Magnetman
28 hits with Default Weapon
Topman 
14 hits with Needleman
4 hits with Hardman
infinite hits with Geminiman
28 hits with Snakeman
28 hits with Sparkman
28 hits with Shadowman
28 hits with Magnetman
14 hits with Default Weapon
Shadowman 
28 hits with Needleman
14 hits with Hardman
28 hits with Geminiman
4 hits with Topman
28 hits with Snakeman
28 hits with Sparkman
28 hits with Magnetman
28 hits with Default Weapon

Recieve Rush Marine
Sparkman 
14 hits with Needleman
14 hits with Hardman
28 hits with Geminiman
28 hits with Topman
infinite hits with Snakeman
7 hits with Shadowman
infinite hits with Magnetman
28 hits with Default Weapon
Snakeman 
7 hits with Needleman
14 hits with Hardman
28 hits with Geminiman
28 hits with Topman
28 hits with Sparkman
14 hits with Shadowman
infinite hits with Magnetman
28 hits with Default Weapon
Geminiman 
28 hits with Needleman
14 hits with Hardman
14 hits with Topman
7 hits with Snakeman
28 hits with Sparkman
14 hits with Shadowman
14 hits with Magnetman
28 hits with Default Weapon
Needleman 
infinite hits with Hardman
4 hits with Geminiman
28 hits with Topman
28 hits with Snakeman
infinite hits with Sparkman
14 hits with Shadowman
28 hits with Magnetman
28 hits with Default Weapon

Recieve Rush Jet
Here are the conclusions I have come up with from this data without taking into account Rush Jet and Rush Marine Route#1 
Topman
Shadowman
Sparkman  /  Magnetman
Magnetman    Hardman
Snakeman/Geminiman/Needleman
Route#2 
Magnetman
Hardman
Topman
Shadowman
Sparkman
Snakeman/Geminiman/Needleman
Here is the route I came up with taking Rush Jet and Rush Marine into consideration 
Topman
Shadowman
Sparkman
Needleman
Snakeman
Geminiman
Magnetman
Hardman
This final route is the one I am leaning towards. Does anybody have any reason why I should use a different one? I would appreciate some feedback.
Posted: 11/1/2004 6:52 AM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (978)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
Is rush jet faster than sliding? If so I don't see any reason why you shouldn't take Needle man first. If not (and I guess this is the case), any robot which takes 14 hits by default weapon would do (i.e needle magnet or top) as long as you have jet/marine when you need them. Is it the same number of hits if you charge your weapon? (or maybe that was invented in mm4. it was a long time since I played these games.) Just curious. If any boss is easier to hit more often with charged shots he might be a better first choice. Yeah I know. That wasn't a lot of help. Good luck with this in any case.
Posted: 11/1/2004 6:56 AM
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BillBull
Former player
Joined: 5/22/2004
Posts: 462
Oops, Needleman takes 28 hits with the Default Weapon, not 14. Charging up was invented for Megaman 4, not 3. Sliding is faster than Rush Jet, but Jet is very useful in Magnetman's level and Snakeman's level, and has minor uses in Topman's and Shadowman's.
Posted: 11/1/2004 7:10 AM
(Edited: 11/1/2004 7:15 AM)
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (978)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
Your route seems good in that case. You can kill the first boss pretty quickly and have rush jet for magnet and snake levels. I don't see the point with doing Gemini first. Is it for using jet in top and shadow levels? Do you gain enough time in that to make up for 11 extra shots? EDIT: miscalculation - 11 was 7. Gemini with default 28 - gemini with optimal weapon 7 = 21 Top with default 14 - top with optimal weapon 4 = 10 You save 21 - 10 = 11 shots by having optimal weapon on gemini instead of top.
Posted: 11/1/2004 7:15 AM
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Blublu
Player (68)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
Someone should just do a test run for each level, with and without jet. Then we'd have a clearer idea on what route is ideal. No need to be uber precise, just to get a general idea on how much time it saves, etc. Of course, *I*'m not doing it... Or is that a stupid idea?
Posted: 11/1/2004 8:20 AM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (978)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
They did that for MM2, I think, except that they had to try with a lot of different item combinations. Took forever too. Liberal time estimate: 8 robots * 2 runs = 16 levels, assuming 8 levels is about 15 mins means 30 mins, plus playing at 10% speed means 5 hours at best, add rerecording and you're easily up to more than 10 hours of work. Is it worth it? Perhaps. This kind of discussion came up with which sword to use where in the zelda 1 run too...
Posted: 11/1/2004 8:28 AM
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BillBull
Former player
Joined: 5/22/2004
Posts: 462
On average, it takes me about an hour or two to make a level on almost any game. This game might take longer because I will use the frame-advance feature to make perfect slides and jumps. I really do not like the idea of making two movies for each level, but it might be worth it for the perfect movie. If I do, I wll only play up until the first boss door, because Rush Jet does not affect the bosses. If this is required in order to make the perfect movie, then I will probably start this week (ugh).
Posted: 11/1/2004 8:46 AM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (978)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
If you have two different routes to choose from, you only need to test two versions of the ones that differ in if you have jet or not. If you have jet in both (snake) or neither (needle) routes it obviously doesn't matter. The question really seems to be: is improvement by having jet in top and shadow levels greater than improvement by killing gemini w/optimal and top w/default instead of gemini w/default and top w/optimal? Estimate/test both time differences, if the difference is big just go for it, if it's close do shadow and top levels with and without jet, and battle gemini and top bosses once with both weapons so you can compare exactly. (sorry if that was messy to read, if you want I can just write up some equations.) That is, unless there are other routes you are considering, or unless jet saves time somewhere else than those levels. Then stuff probably gets a lot more complicated.
Posted: 11/1/2004 3:01 PM
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kopernical
Former player
Joined: 3/24/2004
Posts: 132
Location: Indiana
Some thoughts. Just for reference, I kill Gemini Man 6 seconds faster than Sleepz, and the level as a whole 12 seconds faster. If you're looking at his video to judge how quickly he can be killed with the regular weapon, don't. It can be done better. I looked over the damage data and tried to look for another route, too. But the most important thing to determine when picking a route is to decide who can be killed fastest with the regular weapon. I saw that Top Man takes two damage per shot but I don't think he can be killed that quickly. Don't forget that he has that period of invulnerability as he crosses the screen. You will be able to get, at most, 2 or 3 shots between his passes and that's 4-6 times you will have to wait on him. I'd be very suprised if it can be done faster than I kill Gemini Man There are a couple other problems that I noticed with that route. 1. You will have to fight the Cat's in Top Man's level with just the regular weapon which is a lot slower than with Magnet. 2. You won't have Magnet to kill the parachuting robots on Shadow Man's stage. I can't remember if you will have to stop to kill them, but if you don't they will lag the hell out of the screen. Either way you'll lose a little bit of time there, too. In my dealings with the game I think there are only two levels which can even be considered first for a speed run (i.e. two bosses which can be killed quickly enough with the regular weapon), Magnet and Gemini; Magnet is faster with Jet so that leaves Gemini. I didn't test any of it though so I could be wrong, but you'll have to prove me wrong ;-) If you want to put a few levels together and compare with mine we can do that. Oh, and where are you considering using Rush Jet for Top and Shadow? I can't see anywhere where Jet would be faster.
Posted: 11/1/2004 6:16 PM
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BillBull
Former player
Joined: 5/22/2004
Posts: 462
For Topman, you can use Rush Jet to go across the spinning platforms at the end of the level. I'm not sure if it would help very much or any at all, which is why I said it'd be a minor improvement. Shadowman you can use Jet to kill the parachuters if you don't have Magnetman's weapon.
Posted: 11/20/2004 3:33 PM
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AngerFist
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
First edition TAS of 2015 Innovative TAS of 2007
How is the progess going Kopernical?
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Posted: 11/22/2004 4:56 AM
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kopernical
Former player
Joined: 3/24/2004
Posts: 132
Location: Indiana
ANGERFIST wrote:
How is the progess going Kopernical?
Haven't worked on it in long time. Don't know when I'll be able to get back to it.
Posted: 12/3/2004 5:48 AM
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kopernical
Former player
Joined: 3/24/2004
Posts: 132
Location: Indiana
Decided it was time to just get this thing done. I've got the revisited stages done; just have Wily's Castle to do, which should be pretty quick. It will probably be another day or two.
Posted: 12/3/2004 6:02 AM
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schneelocke
Joined: 11/11/2004
Posts: 400
Location: ::1
Looking forward to it. :)
Posted: 12/3/2004 6:14 AM
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OmnipotentEntity
He/Him
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
This is the point where I'd go "ZOMG WAI!!!!11" but I have too much respect for these boards. The feeling is still there though. I assure you. EDIT: Post 69... heh heh heh...
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 12/4/2004 12:37 AM
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kopernical
Former player
Joined: 3/24/2004
Posts: 132
Location: Indiana
Submitted.
Posted: 12/4/2004 1:01 AM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
I'll go check it out right away
Posted: 12/4/2004 1:24 PM
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Tengu
Joined: 12/4/2004
Posts: 7
nice... but where to download?
Posted: 12/4/2004 1:26 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Tengu wrote:
nice... but where to download?
There were usually. When it's published.
Posted: 12/4/2004 2:01 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Tengu! You can find newly submitted movies at the submission page. http://tasvideos.org/queue.cgi For Mega Man 3 it is the following link http://tasvideos.org/queue.cgi?id=451
Posted: 1/23/2005 1:54 AM
Post subject: Megaman 3 Protoman Skip?
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shadowman
Joined: 1/17/2005
Posts: 8
In the Megaman 3 speed run by kopernical, he skips Protoman in Geminiman's level. I have tried to do this but I cannot, it always stops me. What should I do? Thanks in advance.
Posted: 1/23/2005 1:55 AM
Post subject: Re: Megaman 3 Protoman Skip?
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Start a slide just before entering the room and jump just as the slide ends. Disclaimer: I haven't tried it. This is what I guess from seeing the movie...
Posted: 1/23/2005 2:01 AM
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shadowman
Joined: 1/17/2005
Posts: 8
Ok thanks :)
Posted: 1/23/2005 2:20 AM
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Emptyeye
Joined: 12/5/2004
Posts: 60
If memory serves, you actually have to do the controller 2 "Mega Jump" to get enough distance to clear the ground in front of you. But yeah, bisqwit's got the gist of it.
Emptyeye.com- Come for the music, stay for the blog.
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