If you want to keep the missed shots that badly, why not make a pattern to it, like shooting perfectly timed with the music? It isn't impressive to shoot at random times; any rta runner could do that.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Anty-Lemon wrote:
If you want to keep the missed shots that badly, why not make a pattern to it, like shooting perfectly timed with the music? It isn't impressive to shoot at random times; any rta runner could do that.
I absolutely agree but the problem is we are tasing without sound to avoid desyncs. Diggi, the choice is up to you now my man. Like I said, feel free to redo the stage. When comparing Rush Coil version to a Rush Coil-less, I concluded the Rush Coil version was about 70-80 frames faster. Got4n did a Rush Coil less version whilst I did one using it. So if you feel like redoing, you could have a pretty easy trip mimicking a lot of my movements if you canot find faster strategies. The non-usasge of Rush Coil at 1:17 was slower by 2-3 frames by my testing.
If you intend to redo the stage, enter your name in the beginning too.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
I'm not sure if the debate has been settled, but I'd like to add my voice to the group saying that while progress in general looks great so far, the random shooting does bring it down a notch.
Other than that though, keep up the good work guys. Really excited at the prospect of finally having a MM9 TAS!
If you shoot just to empty your ammo before the boss, why not, but if it doesn't offer any purpose, we as viewers won't understand why: are there enemies out of screen or not yet loaded that will be killed before we even see them? Why a superhuman capability would miss shots without it being a clear entertainment?
Do as you wish, but if you want to fire shots for no reason, do it with an entertaining way.
I concluded the Rush Coil version was about 70-80 frames faster.
If you intend to redo the stage, enter your name in the beginning too.
I'm working on it. I used the alphabetical name ADG. Obviously doesn't really matter, but it saves 119 frames lol.
Also yes, I tested the non-rush coil route first, but as I mentioned back in 2011:
"A weapon cancel (refreshing from the weapon select menu) takes 74 frames. Changing weapons takes 75-79 frames depending on how far down the list the new weapon is. Naturally, this means for any time saving tactic doesn't save at least 74 frames, a real-time route will skip it and remain on the current weapon."
The first two ladders and the frame with the spider/cannon/spikes use the rush coil to save well over 75 frames, so switching is undeniably beneficial, despite losing a few extra frames on the boss. But you were right, the third rush coil I used at 1:17 is actually slower.
UPDATE:
Alright, some good news. I finished the style remake of the first stage and besides the 119 frames saved from the name change, I was able to squeeze out another 3 frames from the stage itself. Amazingly, this also corrected the RNG so he uses his optimal pattern without waiting, which means a total of 10 frames were saved for this stage.
All that's left is to re-input got4n's boss fight without the missed shots. I can do that later this week, but I'll upload the stage here.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/19928432776234320
Let me know if you guys get what I mean about the style. Personally, I think this one looks even better than the other one I uploaded. I'll point out that manipulating refill pellets (and not grabbing them) looks good, as does silly things like the rush placement here:
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
You win Diggi :) Stylistically, your version looked much sexier. Good job and it's fantastic to know Concrete Man's pattern is now perfect. I will tackle Concrete Man if I find the time, otherwise you or Got4n may obviously finish him off. Cheers!
Edit: I think I have figured out the route in Magma Man. Basically, boosting via C Shot isn't so beneficial compared with waiting for those lavas to go away. In the speedrun, I think he had to wait 1-2 instances before moving forward. It should be a no brainer to cancel a few C Shot boosts and freeze the remaining lavas. ExoSDA couldn't because he obviously had depleted his amo by that time.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Thanks Anger.
Here's the updated file with Concrete Man finished and Magma Man started. Amazingly, I checked the save time for this file and the split second saved during the stage was enough to bring the clear time down to 1:26! I didn't even know that was possible, as I thought my old 1:27 was the limit.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/19972729265201313Link to video
As for Magma Man, you're correct, there will probably be very few if any zips for this stage because we need so many C. Shots for the magma beams. There is a large weapon refill pellet halfway through the stage we can consider grabbing though. If it's like MM10, then it will be useful to reference what I posted in that submission:
"Big pellets refill up to 8 pixels, and small pellets refill up to 2. When refilling a weapon, everything in the game is frozen. This freeze lasts 4 frames for every pixel of energy added to the weapon's energy bar. The freeze stops all motion, explosions, projectiles, and the in-game timer. The RNG based timer continues through the freeze, as well as TASvideo's timing. After the freeze, Mega Man continues his velocity before the freeze."
I must say, though, Dolphin's TAS'ing capabilities have vastly improved since my MM10 era. Rerecording actually works reliably which helps speed things up immensely.
However, I did encounter the mystery lag you were talking about where I was unable to fire the weapon in certain rare instances for a single frame. Thankfully, it hasn't impeded progress yet, as I only had to adjust my position to fire on the next frame and still land the shot at the correct time. Hopefully, this bug doesn't hinder anything in the future.
^At 0:47 why do you fall pushing against the wall? Doesn’t that hinder your acceleration?
I think Megaman has a stable speed (almost, except when staring from start), so that means blocking in a wall still put your max speed directly, it's like turning left/right, it still gives you correct speed.
Current:
Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD
Paused:
N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair)
GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven)
TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Right. While airborne, Mega Man's horizontal speed is set to max. Also, there's no sliding feature, so wall hugging doesn't change vertical/horizontal acceleration, but it does allow Mega Man to continue forward on the first frame he loses contact with the wall.
I still think this route has to be faster than the in-game time route that starts with Tornado Man. I was reviewing Richard Gibson's run, and there doesn't seem to be much we're missing by not having Tornado Blow right off the bat. Not all of the tactics he used save 74 frames. Then there's also the fact that the C.shot/laser trident is used on every beam in Magma man's stage which is completely unnecessary in this TAS. Thankfully, Gibson saved after every level so it's pretty easy to see how this route compares along the way, adjusting for imperfections.
I've already TAS'd Tornado Man and found around 15 seconds of improvement in that stage alone. But there's a frame rule with the platforms near the end of the level that erases all of that. Having the rush jet there will allows us to keep those frames as well as save a lot more.
Right. While airborne, Mega Man's horizontal speed is set to max. Also, there's no sliding feature, so wall hugging doesn't change vertical/horizontal acceleration, but it does allow Mega Man to continue forward on the first frame he loses contact with the wall.
I still think this route has to be faster than the in-game time route that starts with Tornado Man. I was reviewing Richard Gibson's run, and there doesn't seem to be much we're missing by not having Tornado Blow right off the bat. Not all of the tactics he used save 74 frames. Then there's also the fact that the C.shot/laser trident is used on every beam in Magma man's stage which is completely unnecessary in this TAS. Thankfully, Gibson saved after every level so it's pretty easy to see how this route compares along the way, adjusting for imperfections.
I've already TAS'd Tornado Man and found around 15 seconds of improvement in that stage alone. But there's a frame rule with the platforms near the end of the level that erases all of that. Having the rush jet there will allows us to keep those frames as well as save a lot more.
Yup. I will start Magma man if you haven't already did it after Tuesday, I have some big tests monday and tuesday
Current:
Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD
Paused:
N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair)
GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven)
TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I started working on it. Had a good start, the route will definitely look different than Exo's speedrun. Stay tuned!
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I am completely exhausted.. I literally spent 7-8 hours straight last night tasing Magma Man. I took a short break only twice, one for dinner and one for stretching my body :)
Anyway, I did basically two whole different versions. One version had it all but unfortunately, I had 2hp short of Concrete Shot for the final two lavas. I redid but this time, I fear it's too narrow to freeze the second last lava and fit through the gap. I will test further this section and hope I can manage freeze it a bit earlier to further open the gap. In case it won't work, I have already thought of how the route will turn out for a third version of Magma Man. I will edit this post later tonight with a completed stage (presumably without fighting Magma Man since I am quite tired). But it was fun tasing this stage. It's very easy zipping with Concrete Shot. I tried my best to squeeze myself into the wall at the first ladder where you use Concrete Shot to see what could happen, to no avail.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Good to hear that! Luckily, I'm pretty sure Magma Man's optimal pattern isn't dependent upon RNG at all so we'll be able to keep whatever route you find to be the fastest through the stage without having to change it any more to manipulate the fight.
Also, I'm not sure if you've seen it, but I did an in-game time TAS of this stage a few years ago. We can't use much, if any, of the same tactics, but from what I can remember, I was also unable to find a way to squeeze past that magma beam without using the laser trident. We'll have to just wait there.
Link to video
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Here comes a proud *Fist* ^_^ So I sat on my new solid chair, slightly depressed because of the situation with the freaking Magmas. I knew it wouldn't work squeezing through the gap. But I just had to verify it, just to be absolutely sure. Then all the sudden... IT FREAKING WORKED!!! I was so happy. AngerFist turned into HappyFist :D:D:D It felt so damn good. All that hard work paid off. So what I managed to do is to completely avoid waiting for any damn Magmas throughout the stage. Avoiding the second last Magma is sooo delicate that if I would have pressed one more frame or less the jump button or the fire button, you cannot pass the gap. I wonder how much time we have managed to save compared with the speedrun. Anyway, here is the file: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/20070833387797191
All that left is Magma Man :)
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Damn! ClutchFist squeezes through the magma beams! That's an awesome frame-perfect discovery. Good luck to any rta runner that wants to attempt that. The stage looks great as well and I also like how you manipulated the enemy drops.
The only thing I noticed is you had one extra C. Shot after all the mandatory beam freezes and worm-enemy zips, so you chose to use the C. Shot to platform up the first ladder twice. Did this save more frames than using the C. shot in the same manner on either of the other two ladders in the stage at 3:00 and 3:41? Possibly even 3:19 to avoid using the ladder at all. I'll check that when I get a chance.
Up to this point, we've only saved about 10 seconds total off of Exo's run. Roughly 5 seconds on each stage for around a 4% improvement. Kind of a testament to how good Exo's run really is.
Edit:
So, AngerFist. Hate to say it, but I got some bs info. I just tested the other ladders, and using that extra C. shot saves 8 frames at the ladder before the dragon, 16 frames for the first ladder (where you used it), and 17 frames for both the second ladder and the ladder at 3:41. This means we'll have to remove the second c.shot you used to platform up the first ladder, use it to platform up the second ladder, and then repeat your stage run to save one damn frame.
Anyone know how to hex edit? ><
Edit2:
Here's the change. This file is one frame ahead at the point I left off. Unfortunately, this is clear back before the first magma beam.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/20085190050379631
Is this on Dolphin? I don’t know how/if it works on Dolphin, but you just open the input file in a text editor, and if it’s written in a sensible format you should understand how to cut and paste input from it. It’s very probable that this won’t work for Dolphin input files, though. Works on PSXjin and DeSmuME, the 2 emus I’ve TASed.
Is this on Dolphin? I don’t know how/if it works on Dolphin, but you just open the input file in a text editor, and if it’s written in a sensible format you should understand how to cut and paste input from it. It’s very probable that this won’t work for Dolphin input files, though. Works on PSXjin and DeSmuME, the 2 emus I’ve TASed.
This only works with text-based formats.
dtm is binary and messy with a normal text edition. There is xvi32, for example.
dtm is binary and messy with a normal text edition. There is xvi32, for example.
Are you saying you need a hex editor rather than a text editor for binary formats? I think I actually remember having to do something like that for SM64 when I attempted a TAS of it… or maybe it was something else.
