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I feel kind of bad for doing this, but I couldn't sleep last night, and nineko's submission sparked my curiousity about what an optimized run of the competition levels would look like...
LevelTime
Azure Lake0'15"56
Balloon Park0'15"32
Chrome Gadget0'26"69
Desert Palace0'19"49
Endless Mine0'30"26
Total1'47"32
I suspect that Chrome Gadget, Desert Palace, and Endless mine can go lower, but I'd prefer to focus my efforts on something more substantial.
Edit: Indeed, every level can go substantially lower, and it seems as though there has already been some effort made towards that, so I am cancelling this run.

TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #2169: upthorn's Genesis Sonic 3 & Knuckles in 02:38.15
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I enjoyed it, and it handily beats the current unassisted records. A 5.5/7.5 in my book.
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Now this is awesome, nice work. I'd provide an encode but I respect upthorn's "no rapidshare" decision. edit: forgot the vote. 9.8 for technical (you can't know if someday this will be 1 frame faster) Didn't vote for entertainment.
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The name of that submission is kind of misleading. o.o Nice run anyway.
Joined: 5/17/2007
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That was awesome I want this in Alden's gruefood list if it gets ehm... gruefooded Shame it wasn't 2 player :/
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nineko wrote:
Now this is awesome, nice work. I'd provide an encode but I respect upthorn's "no rapidshare" decision.
http://megaupload.com/ Problem solved? Rapidshare sucks anyway.
Joined: 1/22/2008
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very fast i like it, got the tech and it was fun i give 9 / 9
Run..Run...Run.....
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Nice! Making this TAS in just one night is very impressive, but I guess you know the game inside out. :) 7.6/8.4 from me.
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Wait, is this brand new? That was amazing!! 9.5/9! I still hate the music.
upthorn
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bobxp wrote:
nineko wrote:
Now this is awesome, nice work. I'd provide an encode but I respect upthorn's "no rapidshare" decision.
http://megaupload.com/ Problem solved? Rapidshare sucks anyway.
Megaupload is the only one worse than Rapidshare...
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
arflech
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upthorn wrote:
bobxp wrote:
nineko wrote:
Now this is awesome, nice work. I'd provide an encode but I respect upthorn's "no rapidshare" decision.
http://megaupload.com/ Problem solved? Rapidshare sucks anyway.
Megaupload is the only one worse than Rapidshare...
http://www.mediafire.com/ IMO also ITT this forum gets a colonic
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On EM, did you test jumping from the top left corner to the bottom right corner of the U and then jumping out, rather than running all the way through it? Awesome job. 8.5/9.5
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From the perspective of an experienced S3 Competition Mode player, this was a fairly lackluster run, for a few reasons:
  • Grand Prix mode doesn't show lap times.
  • Grand Prix mode doesn't save best times for individual levels.
  • Grand Prix mode has items.
  • S3K fixed a BP glitch, so normal S3 should be used.
That's not to say your take on the run isn't valid, it just won't be seen as interesting or legitimate by the S3C community at large. There's no reason why you have to pander to their standards, either, but I personally think the run would be more interesting in Time Attack mode with no items. I'd love to see your lap times, and also give you the ability to change characters between levels. Since the run isn't "substantial", as you put it, you could do it twice, once without glitches, and once with. Every level has something entertaining and illegitimate you can do to break it, which would make a double run very interesting. Given your boot usage in some levels, it's not at all clear that you are always faster than the best human. Here are the best times I can personally vouch for:
Level          TAS      Human    Glitch
-------------  -------  -------  -----------
Azure Lake     0'15"56  0'16"20  Ask Nitsuja
Balloon Park   0'15"32  0'18"36  0'4"80
Chrome Gadget  0'26"69  0'27"32  Never timed it, but much faster
Desert Palace  0'19"49  0'24"99  0'22"95
Endless Mine   0'30"26  0'31"90  0'23"97
  • Nitsuja had a glitch for AL but it was years ago and I don't recall the mechanics of it. Ask him if he's still around.
  • The glitch for BP is well known and involves running along the top of the level. Also, I think Tails might be faster for a nonglitch run because you can spindash jump into a balloon and then immediately fly into the ceiling curve before the starting loop to maintain maximum running speed without stopping. Given that the spindash with which you start each lap maintains top speed for so little time before you stop and spindash again, I suspect your Sonic strategy is slower. I've never tested it, though.
  • CG has no actual glitch that I'm aware of, but you can go into Match Race mode and have the second player hold down the platform for laughs. Tails may also be faster here because he jumps higher and wouldn't have to float as long.
  • The DP glitch involves using a spindash jump to back over the finish line very high up in the sky, so it doesn't delap you, then relapping as normal. I suspect with an emulator this can be done very quickly.
  • The EM glitch involves jumping from the first upward curve after the breakable blocks up into the sky to change which plane you are on, thereby skipping half the level. A human can really only do it quickly and consistently with Tails, as well, but it's certainly possible with Sonic, who would no doubt be best in a TAS. Also, make sure you do the ceiling jump prior to the loop. You probably already did this but I couldn't tell so I'll just remind you.
And to answer the inevitable questions ahead of time (since I won't be back to answer them), no, I'm not back, but I was personally asked to review this run, so here you go, brocahontas. Not that I could come back with how much old testament B=3 reads. No doubt that ban is 4 lyfe. Jesus loves! pz
upthorn
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temp001 wrote:
  • The EM glitch involves jumping from the first upward curve after the breakable blocks up into the sky to change which plane you are on, thereby skipping half the level. A human can really only do it quickly and consistently with Tails, as well, but it's certainly possible with Sonic, who would no doubt be best in a TAS. Also, make sure you do the ceiling jump prior to the loop. You probably already did this but I couldn't tell so I'll just remind you.
Thanks. I've actually been asking around to try to find info about that glitch. I probably won't be doing much of anything more with the competition mode in terms of TAS submission, but it's always good to have glitch and shortcut info on hand in case someone needs it.
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If I can get an encode that will work properly on youtube (I don't want a repeat of the SMB walkathon), I'll happily upload it.
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Yeah, judging by the times this is quite improvable. Here are mine from way back (I have to find where I put the GMV but the times alone could be some guidance):
Level          This TAS  Mine
-------------  --------  --------
Azure Lake     0'15"56   0'07"67 (glitchy tree)
Balloon Park   0'15"32   0'04"03 (glitchy ceiling)
Chrome Gadget  0'26"69   0'25"22 (couldn't find any glitch)
Desert Palace  0'19"49   0'09"03 (glitchy laps)
Endless Mine   0'30"26   Never finished it but there's a major glitch here too
EDIT: Turns out my GMV was deleted but I eventually found a savestate with the right movie in it and recovered it from there. So here is the movie file. Requires the Sonic 3 ROM (with Sonic & Knuckles NOT attached).
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Dammit xebra, you got my hopes up.
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Flygon wrote:
If I can get an encode that will work properly on youtube (I don't want a repeat of the SMB walkathon), I'll happily upload it.
I'll send you one.
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Thank you.
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It's interesting to watch, but overall after hearing about the glitches possible in the other version I just have to say bleh. A time attack on the other version might be interesting. I agree that a double run (glitched and nonglitched) would be good, though. For the record, my vote was 2.5.
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upthorn
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Eh. This wasn't really a serious TAS project to begin with, I didn't put a whole lot of thought or effort in. And since it was sleep deprivation that motivated me to do it in the first place, I was not really in peak TASing condition. You see no goals on the submission because my only goal was to satisfy my own curiousity about what a better optimized version of Nineko's submission would look like... which it did. However, clearly, better is possible, and I would be interested in seeing that -- just not in making it. In light of this, I am cancelling the submission. It's served its purpose, reached its target audience (actually far exceeding my expectations of interest), and seems like it may have inspired others to take up the project with a more serious effort.
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Now that this one has been cancelled I have something to say. I knew since the beginning that my TAS wasn't going to be approved (or approved and quickly obsoleted in the best scenario), since I suck at TASing. I just wanted to gather some interest from the good Sonic speedrunners such as upthorn or nitsuja, and things went exactly as I planned. Now I'm glad to see this spawned some serious interest and I'm pretty confident that this will lead to a real TAS of the competition levels, maybe in the glitcher Sonic 3.
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nineko wrote:
I knew since the beginning that my TAS wasn't going to be approved
Sure :P
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Mitjitsu
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I'd prefer to see a run where 2 players are competing against each other.