Editor, Expert player (2310)
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Time to speedrun this game :D In my opinion, this game is so suited for TASing because sliding is much better than in older Kirby games. Wheel lets you perform super high jumps when you jump and press B at the same time, it's not as pathetic as in Nightmare in Dreamland where you can't jump as a wheel. You can collect these bubbles and mix your abilities - You almost don't need to bother mixing enemies to get a desired ability. I could go on but you see, this game is perfectly suited for a good run, imo. I have yet to create a good route (which also implies which bubbles to collect, and what to mix at what time.) The only thing I planned on doing was to re-enter level 2 and get the bubble at the very beginning there, then exiting the level and mixing wheel of the two bubbles you got. You'd have to compare this strategy to normally progressing and mixing the two fire enemies in the beginning of level 3. Getting the two bubbles and still mix the two fire enemies is also an option. You see, I haven't got a clue what to do yet. In Kirby Amazing Mirror, I used to create the route WHILE TASing the game. Now it's a completely different case, as you'd have to plan far ahead. You can collect up to five bubbles and finishing the game with some bubbles left wouldn't look good. (Sorry if I'm mistaken about the level numbers or something else. I haven't played the game for a year.) Here's a testrun of level 1, which I made right after seeing adelikat's New Super Mario Bros. submission. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTQDnsXgdJc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSYXxnAFags Unfortunately, DeSMuME doesn't display the background in this game. Level 1 has a white background, and Level 2 has a black one... However, that's the only problem I encountered in this game, and I'm fairly confident that this background issue will be fixed sooner or later.
adelikat
He/Him
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Your graphics card doesn't support opengl. Go to config > 3d settings and select soft rasterizer. Should give you your backgrounds.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Editor, Expert player (2310)
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Thanks adelikat. I updated the first post.
Joined: 1/27/2008
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Sweet! Can't wait to see more. Looks good to me, but why take damage so much? Does boost you ahead a bit, cause it kinda looks bad to me. But if it helps the speed I guess it's good!
See Youtube page (GIRfanaticTAS) for all runs and stuff.
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Well, I love this game, and have even speedran this game just for fun, thankfully since the controls rock! I'd love to see a TAS of this game, no doubt. The first level already makes it look good!
Lego is awesome!
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I began working on a serious attempt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MirofM67wqE * Jumping on the first possible frame is the fastest way to gain horizontal speed. Also, running seems slightly faster than jumping. * I found a nice glitch in the first level to keep the momentum of a slide for a while :) * In the second level, I couldn't manipulate the Cheep out of the way. * Going into wheel mode while facing the direction you don't want to go saves time * The treasure that triggers the Squeak Squad sequence is skipable (with animal ability) but I think it wastes too much time. * In level 5, I mix two bubbles to get hammer. Unfortunately, due to how the mixing system works, I need to move them around while mixing for a long time. It lags quite a bit too... Since obtaining additional bubbles cancels the mixing procedure, I couldn't get the ?-bubble in this level.
Joined: 3/11/2008
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That treasure's also skippable with good old-fashioned kirby-floating. So, why don't you avoid it that way? ne'ermind. doesn't work, tried it. That lag is bad emulation, you should be able to reach that tier of the mix scale faster if it's emulated properly.
Editor, Expert player (2310)
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I've just tested the fire mix variant. I realized that it should actually turn out faster than my current progress, if I somehow get the fire enemy in level 3 to move on the ground towards the second one. But I can only manage to do that if I hit it while it moves to the right, and it goes upwards just before I can hit it. So this doesn't seem very promising... If there are no complains, I'm moving on to world 2 now.
Joined: 5/2/2009
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MUGG, I see you're not getting any treasures. That'll be a problem, since you can't access 2 worlds, and I believe you'll not get any kind of "ending" here. You could get just the necessary for opening both words, the seal and... I don't really remember how you unlock the last world... But anyway, TAS looking great by now
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =) (ノಥ益ಥ)ノ
Editor, Expert player (2310)
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The only treasures I need to collect are those that contain the star seals to advance the plot later. The treasures are located in 2-1, 3-2, 4-2, 5-1 and 6-2. There are also treasures that contain secret map pieces. If you collect all of them, you gain access to the tower in the middle of the world map (But that's not relevant for the any% run). I'm aiming to beat Dark Nebula and the movie will end at the staff credits.
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Oh, great =) Thanks for answering, can't wait to see the final tas *edit* by the way, are you planning to use one of the comboed abilities, like fire sword, in bosses? Are they stronger than the other weapons?
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =) (ノಥ益ಥ)ノ
Joined: 3/11/2008
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Most of the scrolls (that upgrade moves) aren't too useful for TASing, I think. Wheel perhaps, as it might be needed to roll through certain kinds of obstacles. Then again, it might not- I remember one point where it forced a stop, trying to drive an iced wheel through a waterfall. The sword and bomb upgrades a. require their respective scrolls from late worlds (Bomb is in world 8 iirc, Sword in 6) and don't do much aside from being different element really. Hammer is undoubtably the best pick against Dedede as his vulnerability is artificially long, but I think that using Bomb Drop may be faster on others, as it's good damage + very fast rate of attack. Might want to try that out. Tornado might be an option- not sure if TAS capabilities override the nice mobility and invulnerability and decent damage against the short-invulnerables. edit: Found my little cheat sheet of what treasures need abilities. Hard Blocks (look like gray versions of SMB1 stairs) require UFO, Fire, Hammer, or maybe one or few others(Metal for instance, if going down) to break.Steel Blocks (metal with corner rivets) require any fire-element attack to break. Fire itself is fastest. Fuses require fire-type too, natch. Posts need hammer or stone or magic to beat in. I don't remember all of what these symbols on my chart mean, I'll try to playtest and fix it up later._ means nothing special. Directions mean a choice in stage required. 1-3: Animal, _ 2-1: Right, _ _ 2-3: Wheel, Bubble (in its directional capacity), Animal. Also, a wheel bubble 2-5: _, Hard Blocks, _ 2-ex: Post, _ _ 3-1: Wheel/Laser (up attack, but these work well), Hard Blocks, _ 3-3:_, kill Dee, _ 3-4: Fuse+cloud(fire-type), fire (or being fast), _ 3-5: Fire or Wheel 3-ex: 3-tile wallpiercing attack, _ _ 4-1: Cutter (timing/remoteness, bomb may be usable), Laser or Spark, _ 4-3: up, left, wheel 4-4: right+Kill dee, steel blocks, steel blocks 4-5: Wheel or other speedy. Fire and fighting (probably others with TAS) can reach right area with chest before it closes making level trivial. 4-ex: Left, down, _ 5-1: distance weapon or invincible(wheel/fire), same again, _ [some tricks possible] 5-2: 4-tile wallpiercing, faster with greater wallpiercing, floorpiercing(firescr/beam/ice/bubblescr) 5-3: Hammer(post, but it gives you hammer), animal, metal. (the Squeak hideout holds a Hammer bubble at end, btw. 5-4: Kill dee, bomb/cupid/(tricky stuff or just being fast), _ 5-ex: Hammer, Ice(not strictly), _ 6-1: Fire/animal (or unnatural speed?), _ _ 6-3: Hammer/post( It's key to have beforehand, it requires large detour to get one, unlike almost all the other parts of the game.), left, _ 6-4: Fuse, cut-type, _ 6-ex: Wheel, kill dee, _ 7-1: up, _ _ 7-2: _, firetype, firetype 7-3: Firetype, _ _ 7-4: _(ufo?sword?), electric-type, _ 7-5: Wheel. 7-ex: Kill dee(middle up), right, _ 8-1: Steel block(up), down-left, and be careful to not have him drop the last one down a pit. 8-2: up-left-left?, kill dee, _ 8-3: animal, hard block, _
Joined: 5/2/2009
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iirc, Wheel is useful for others obstacles as well, including a cloudy stage. And maybe abusing the triple star bubble item? I believe you can get some of these by mixing, and also doesn't drop the current ability
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =) (ノಥ益ಥ)ノ
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That WIP was really entertaining, I can't wait to see more! Good luck :)
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I found an epic glitch today. If you use a bubble (it doesn't matter what kind) and obtain an item at the same frame you will use the bubble, but you will still keep it. You could try to get Hammer, wheel, etc. in your possession for the whole game and don't have to do any mixing for bosses, for instance. I had this happening on my own DS, but I didn't realize that I kept my used item. I worked on a TAS route this whole weekend. I figure, I can throw it away now ._. (Here's how it looked: http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4939/posting5.png Not that anyone could benefit from it, lol.) I will also take the opportunity and clean up the first few levels. That slide bug can be abused not only on breakable blocks - If you slide just before a ledge, you can preserve much momentum as well and this could be used to get across some pits faster, for example.
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Wow, nice finding. It starts. Another game wrecked by bug usage =p
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =) (ノಥ益ಥ)ノ
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And what happens to the new item you picked up? It's tricked into being what you had before?
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You get it like normal. After further thinking about the new trick, it doesn't seem that useful. You need an item to pick up in order to use the glitch. I'm switching abilities mostly before and after bosses, and the time saved by not collecting certain bubbles doesn't make up for the time you have to move towards the boss without wheel. In fact, there's only one place where the glitch might get some use and that is the Ice boss in 4-4 where there is a bubble in the same room as the boss.
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eternaljwh wrote:
That treasure's also skippable with good old-fashioned kirby-floating. So, why don't you avoid it that way? ne'ermind. doesn't work, tried it. That lag is bad emulation, you should be able to reach that tier of the mix scale faster if it's emulated properly.
It appears to be bad emulation to me too. Such lag also appears if there are bushes burning with +3 elements on-screen. Now I wonder how you know that this lag is a result of bad emulation. Did you only estimate it? I'll get hammer quite a few times which would add seconds of lag. I'd rather like to wait for an emulator version that fixes this lag. If it is completely accurate and part of the game, I'd keep going.
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Was referring to the mixing. But, I can't really say with certainty, lacking three hands- since normally you aren't doing much (maybe walking) when you're mixing. Still, I don't really recall any lag when playing, including times when bushes burn other bushes, etc. But YMMV- and we have what we have. Take with grain of salt. More constructively, though it doesn't appear to be an option for this one, choose carefully when to mix those hammers.
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According to this, it looks like that boost you got can be done almost off any ledge.
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Looks pretty sweet! The only thing I can think to add is that you can cancel the end lag to Fire's dash attack by holding up. ...Hold that thought, I might be thinking of KSSU instead. I'm sleepy and haven't played this in awhile.
Working on a mod of an old favorite in my spare time. PM for updates!
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Here's a brandnew WIP :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivuoRze8Yyk - I used the slide-float trick (slide at the ledge, immediately hold "up"). - I discovered that Kirby is actually standing at the beginning of each level so I exploited this by using the slide-float trick wherever possible. Also works after each travel with a Warpstar. - I used the bubble glitch I discovered earlier. Just obtain any item (treasure, bubble, food) at the same frame you're using an item. You'll obtain the item and use the other item but you won't lose it. - Used a small sequence break to skip the squeak squad sequence :P - About luck-manipulation: The roulette at the end of every level is dependent on enemy behaviour (probably just object behaviour in general). It can't be manipulated directly. Why would we want to manipulate the roulette? Because there's sometimes food on the first plate and it delays Kirby for 5 frames! I manipulated the roulette actively in one level by taking damage from an enemy where I could have avoided it (+4 delay frames, saves 5. So I saved 1 frame here). About the MrFrosty battle: There is a little bug, sometimes when the battle starts and kirby is behind MrFrosty, he turns around which allows for a faster battle. This is very hard to manipulate, but I succeeded by hitting an enemy earlier in the same room (+3 delay frames) and by waiting before making him appear (+ ~4 delay frames, so I needed to delay for ca. 10 frames). I'll need to change the ending a bit. I might be able to use the item-glitch with the big treasure chest. For now, I don't know how to continue the WIP as I don't have a plan for the whole speedrun yet. I'll need to reorganize the route I posted earlier in this thread due to the new item-glitch.
Post subject: repost with more info
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http://dic.nicovideo.jp/v/sm10718767 This video features a glitch where you clip through a slope. I wasn't able to reproduce it on the (E) and (U) ROM. On these two ROMs you can't bump into walls in the out-of-bounds area as in the video. I want to try it on the (J) ROM but it would be great if I could get my hands on a complete .sav file for it first.
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I can now confirm the glitch I posted above. It works on the Japanese version only. EDIT: I Investigated it and it seems the slope in the video is the only slope in the game this glitch works on (it probably only works on thin slopes). This is not useful for speedrunning.