This topic is for the purpose of discussing #2468: Nisto's Genesis The Terminator in 05:32.53

Excuse me, but what have I done wrong?

First off, I must congratulate you on a very nice improvement. 25 secs is a lot! I think what theenlishman is trying to say is, even though you have played this tool-assisted via slow motion, you can even optimize it more with the re-recording version of Gens available here http://code.google.com/p/gens-rerecording/ where you can step frame by frame to perfect all your moves. I took a brief look at your video, and it does look pretty good, and while I admit I have not played the game, I thought some areas looked sloppy, meaning could be done better. A nice job on your first submission though! Edit: Upon closer look, the Gens you used might be the same one as the link I posted. My bad, if that is my mistake.

So it won't be accepted because of that particular reason? That would be such a shame since I've worked for quite some while on this run and I really don't feel like making another run. Thank you Aktan for your kind words.

So it won't be accepted because of that particular reason? That would be such a shame since I've worked for quite some while on this run and I really don't feel like making another run. Thank you Aktan for your kind words.

Well, that's what the poll is for. People will vote if it will be accepted or not. I know it does suck that you put a lot of work into it, just to have it rejected, but people here strive for perfection. If there is a lot of known improvements, the chances are slim. All I can say is, good work, and don't give up! Edit: I want to note my first impression was that it wasn't done right because you didn't use the Gen version I posted above. Usually all TASes here are done via an emulator listed here: http://tasvideos.org/EmulatorResources.html. After I looked more closely, I am now unsure how did you play. You have rerecord counts which means you did go back to redo things, but did you play with frame precision? If so, then you have not done anything wrong.

Isn't rerecording allowed? I thought it was... Is there a function in the emulator that's hosted on this site called "Frame precision"? because the emulator I used, the one from speedruns.net didn't have that. I think you should verify if that emulator is OK. http://www.speedruns.net/component/option,com_remository/Itemid,68/func,fileinfo/id,22/

So it won't be accepted because of that particular reason? That would be such a shame since I've worked for quite some while on this run and I really don't feel like making another run. Thank you Aktan for your kind words.

I'm sorry, dude. That was a bit harsh in retrospect, but seeing your submission comments kind of made me flash back to how ruthless the goons were to me when I...made some wall-banging Let's Play test posts. (Listen to me, making Freudian excuses.) Anyway, the point I was trying to make, and got rather carried away, was that this site encourages artistic expression through speed and rising above normal human skill. Your run does not use frame advance. The game itself is also not very interesting to watch; the movement of the player-character is erratic and stiff, and the only significant glitch, making enemies disappear, sounds cool but doesn't look impressive. You don't have to make a completely frame-perfect run (there's no such thing outside of some really rare cases) but in order to make a publish-worthy run, you must: a) Make a run that entertains b) Make the input feel godly Your run, and in general the game itself, fails to do either of these, especially in the early levels where it's mostly "run right". There are no movement tricks outside of the "wobbling" used to clear enemies from the screen and something which looks like a brief ladder zip, and the game's aesthetic does little to make up for this. Game choice is just as important to creating a well-received TAS, as input. (Cringes when MGS1 inevitably gets the same complaints) We are not Speed Demos Archive; we are creative artists, not ungodly athletes. Except for the occasional frame war on something like SMB1, where the game has been completely broken with a hatchet and put back together, we're not about competition. At TASvideos we want to make things that are beautiful, and seeing games being played beyond human potential is something we think is beautiful. (This isn't speedruns.net, either. In my opinion, they tend to have much lower standards and a lot of controversial runs that get rejected here end up there, mostly by coincidence but occasionally out of persistence.) The point I'm trying to make is this: you are still thinking like a human player. Think outside the Genesis. I am voting no, but I look forward to seeing your next submission for this game, if you decide to make one with frame advance. Once again I apologize for my initial post, and welcome to TASvideos!

Isn't rerecording allowed? I thought it was... Is there a function in the emulator on this site called "Frame precision", because the emulator I used, the one from speedruns.net didn't have that. I think you should verify if that emulator is OK.

I think you misunderstood what I said. Rerecording IS allowed and highly recommended. What I was saying is that while my first impression was that it was done wrong, I started to change my mind when I noticed you DID use rerecording and doing it right. Actually, I never TASed in Gen, so someone would need to help you with that, but I do know the Gen version I linked to do have frame advance. There is a key listed as frame advance in the default configuration.

Hi Nisto! This isn't a bad run you have here, especially if it also improves a previous submission for the game. However, I'd like to suggest some things that could probably make this movie a lot better. First, as Aktan mentions (and I believe theenglishman was trying to point this out too), you really want to use frame precision when playing these movies. Rather than 3% speed or something like that, you can use Gens to record input on individual frames, allowing for a much finer degree of control. For instance, each time you turn around to scroll an enemy off screen (which is a nice gimmick, by the way), you currently make a pretty large motion. With frame advance, hopefully you can figure out precisely how much you need to turn around, so that the pauses are much less noticeable. Second, it seems like you're overly conservative with your health in the last few stages. You either scroll a lot of enemies off screen or kill a lot of enemies, but you have a lot of your health left over when the stage ends. You should probably take more damage, so that the run looks more exciting, there are fewer pauses, and the point countdown at the ends of stages goes by quicker. Now, maybe killing enemies helps reduce lag, so it can still be good to scroll off some enemies, but it seems like you should test out some things. Lastly, do you know what causes certain enemies to drop health? If you know the reason for that, maybe you can manipulate the health drops to occur exactly when you need them, also making the run more exciting. In the police station stage, you get a lot of redundant health powerups. I think this is a good first attempt, and I love the way you ended the input early in this movie. But I think there's a fair bit more that can be done. I think the main challenge of this movie, and the main source of excitement, will be careful health management. I wish you luck, and I suggest that you contribute to a forum for this game so that you can post works-in-progress (WIPs) and get feedback as you go.

Argh, I'll have to think about this... Thanks for your feedback, I guess

That was a bit harsh in retrospect, but seeing your submission comments kind of made me flash back to how ruthless the goons were to me when I...made some wall-banging Let's Play test posts.

Ah, that subforum brings back memories... bad ones, but memories nonetheless.

Hey I watched your run and it's a good start for your first TAS run. (it was the first game I tased too) There are some things I need to nitpick about though. -First off, it's possible to skip the big tank at the beginning instead of slowly killing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umtnv_vaLbo (found by aqfaq) -Second, at this point: I'm positive walking off the platform is faster than jumping. -Also, stop jumping to get on every ladder. To my recollection there are only two places it actually saves time: 1) Beginning, near end of the level. 2) 2nd level (nice find BTW) It wastes time for kyle to crouch and then jump. By the time he reaches the ladder, you could potentially be higher by running. Other than that I don't have much to say. There were entertaining parts, and you managed to beat my time by 25 secs. weak Yes vote

The run is fine because of the fact that you did a 25-second tweak, but some believe that it's tweakable and a couple of other replies already explained that. I vote Meh only because of decent effort. And we at TASVideos are not always affiliated with SDA, speedruns.net, or any other site that is devoted to speedruns of any game of any console. Believe me when I say that I already went through that a long time ago, it wasn't fun! :P

Voting no only because This seems like it could be improved a bit more. This might have worked better as a WIP than a submission at this stage.

-First off, it's possible to skip the big tank at the beginning instead of slowly killing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umtnv_vaLbo (found by aqfaq) weak Yes vote

Thank you so much for making this post, you've inspired me to do yet another run! I tried to skip the tank a few times but never got around it. Is all I have to do just jump straight through it or do I have to jump a second time? I also have a few other questions... a little offtopic I guess, but when I have once clicked on the "Frame advance" key, how do I let the game run like normal, without having to hold that Frame advance key? Sorry for my newbie question Are you still planning on making another run btw? :-P

I also have a few other questions... a little offtopic I guess, but when I have once clicked on the "Frame advance" key, how do I let the game run like normal, without having to hold that Frame advance key? Sorry for my newbie question.

You have to press the hotkey for pause (not the pause button on your keyboard). I suggest that you configure the hotkeys in Gens to your liking. For example, I've always had frame advance on F and pause on D, but that's just me. If something else suits you better, map the hotkeys so.

Exactly what is that key called in the input options?

I tried to skip the tank a few times but never got around it. Is all I have to do just jump straight through it or do I have to jump a second time?

Well you have to jump when the tank is turning around. You will also take a lot of damage so plan for that so you can get health powerups.

Are you still planning on making another run btw? :-P

I already did, but its 5:47 as opposed to your 5:32

Exactly what is that key called in the input options?

Pause. Or at least it's pause in every other emulator I've used. See this page for tips and pointers.

I tried to skip the tank a few times but never got around it. Is all I have to do just jump straight through it or do I have to jump a second time?

Well you have to jump when the tank is turning around. You will also take a lot of damage so plan for that so you can get health powerups.

Are you still planning on making another run btw? :-P

I already did, but its 5:47 as opposed to your 5:32

In my latest record (only from reset to first part in level 2) I managed to jump through it! I created a WIP topic here btw: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=219462

If you are actively improving this, you should cancel this submission.

om, nom, nom... crunchy!