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Posted: 1/6/2010 4:20 AM
(Edited: 1/27/2010 2:17 PM)
Post subject: Innovative TAS of 2009 - Winner announced!
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adelikat
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We have a winner, Family Feud is the Innovative TAS of 2009. Final vote results: Family Feud - 21 Chrono Trigger - 17 ---- We will now have a 6 day final run off poll of the top 2: Family Feud and Chrono Trigger. Initial vote results: Super Metroid "any%", glitched 1 Super Metroid "any%" 0 Family Feud 25 Symphony of the Night 1 Chrono Trigger "glitched any%" 16 ---- The nomination process is over. Due to the number of nominations we will do a poll for 7 days with everybody's nomination. Then we will do a run off vote for the top 2. The nominees: [1368] SNES "any%" Super Metroid (JPN/USA) by Taco & Kriole in 38:41.52 [1270] SNES "any%, glitched" Super Metroid (JPN/USA) by Cpadolf in 21:35.57 [1248] SNES Family Feud (USA) by Heisanevilgenius in 06:46.28 [1363] PSX Castlevania - Symphony Of The Night (USA) by arukAdo & pirate_sephiroth in 19:01.63 [1285] SNES Chrono Trigger (USA) "glitched any%" by inichi in 21:23.98 Now go vote! ---- Nominate the TAS you think most deserves the Innovative TAS award. Innovative refers to a TAS that did something new/cutting edge/or unexpected/never before seen. Nominations will be 7 days, after which this will be turned into a poll with the nominated authors.
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Posted: 1/6/2010 4:22 AM
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Nach
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http://tasvideos.org/1270M.html - SNES "any%, glitched" Super Metroid (JPN/USA) in 21:35.57 by Filip Roskvist (aka. Cpadolf). http://tasvideos.org/1368M.html - SNES "any%" Super Metroid (JPN/USA) in 38:41.52 by Taco (?) & Kristian Olenfalk (aka. Kriole).
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Posted: 1/6/2010 5:01 AM
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Kirkq
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I would say Heisanevilgenius deviated from the norm in order to give TASing some new, fresh humor. 1248M - SNES Family Feud (USA) by Heisanevilgenius in 06:46.28
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Posted: 1/6/2010 11:36 AM
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Nach
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Kirkq wrote:
I would say Heisanevilgenius deviated from the norm in order to give TASing some new, fresh humor. 1248M - SNES Family Feud (USA) by Heisanevilgenius in 06:46.28
We already have an award for humor. I don't think we should start calling certain types of humor innovative.
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Posted: 1/6/2010 11:48 AM
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Baxter
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Maybe it's a good idea to post why one considers the suggested TAS to be innovative.
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Posted: 1/6/2010 11:50 AM
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Flygon
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Nach wrote:
Kirkq wrote:
I would say Heisanevilgenius deviated from the norm in order to give TASing some new, fresh humor. 1248M - SNES Family Feud (USA) by Heisanevilgenius in 06:46.28
We already have an award for humor. I don't think we should start calling certain types of humor innovative.
Altered Beast anyone? For the record, I lack any suggestions... my sense of picking up innovation is effectively put, broken.
Posted: 1/6/2010 12:14 PM
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Kirkq
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Nach wrote:
I don't think we should start calling certain types of humor innovative.
I suppose I can agree with that. Last year the Glitchy TAS was considered Innovative though. I'm not sure how one defines this category really. Do I say that HappyLee's walkathon was the most ridiculously innovative time saver to win a frame war, or do I say that Megaman 2's NMI study to screenscroll to OHKO the mech-dragon was ridiculous? I suppose I don't see anything entirely ground-breaking about any runs this year to call them 'Innovative' in any other sense. I'm not sure why you could consider the next generations of Super Metroid runs to be 'Innovative' other than the fact that they found unique ways to be faster, much like many other movies on the site. Feel free to disregard my previous nomination, but I hope someone can come up with a better argument for what makes a run this year 'Innovative'.
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Posted: 1/6/2010 2:19 PM
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moozooh
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Family Feud works well in this category not because of its humor, but because it is a (very) successful attempt to TAS a kind of games that was thought to be impossible to TAS in any sensible way.
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Posted: 1/6/2010 9:15 PM
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Nach
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Kirkq wrote:
I'm not sure why you could consider the next generations of Super Metroid runs to be 'Innovative' other than the fact that they found unique ways to be faster, much like many other movies on the site.
I found them both very innovative as far as Super Metroid was concerned. One for saving during the game, copying the save, corrupting it, and loading the other one. The other was innovative in that it used charged bombs to fall faster, which while simple, to me was incredibly innovative in terms of TASing Super Metroid.
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Posted: 1/6/2010 9:36 PM
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moozooh
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Innovation by discovery is different from innovation by application. Pretty much the entirety of the last generation of SM runs falls under the latter. The first version of the glitched any% is, on the other hand, an example of innovation by discovery.
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Posted: 1/7/2010 12:36 AM
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Nach
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moozooh wrote:
Innovation by discovery is different from innovation by application. Pretty much the entirety of the last generation of SM runs falls under the latter. The first version of the glitched any% is, on the other hand, an example of innovation by discovery.
You are indeed correct. However thinking outside the box, and finding ways to apply something simple effectively which hasn't been done before is very important in my book.
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Posted: 1/9/2010 7:15 PM
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arukAdo
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Regard to the 2 posts above, i would like to nominate sotn any% If someone else could second it, to make it more leggit, would be cool My main reason is that the run use a very innovative route by discoveries, i doubt anybody would claim removing the bat from the equation was obvious in order to save time, the ending of the run before the boss is SO slow, anybody would consider its a bad idea, yet, it does obsolete by over a minute the bat run (more than the bat run can ever possiblly be further optimized) Now since we speak about routes, gotta say Chrono Trigger glitched is falling under the same category, how more innovative a run can be, since it basicly skip nearly the whole game! (800%+ obsoletion!!!) So on that matter, i think it deserve to be nominate too On same topic, i think DS PoR and DoS also share same aspects (brake the game "intended" route a lot)
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Posted: 1/10/2010 8:00 PM
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sgrunt
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arukAdo asked that I render another opinion on this front, which is as follows: An "innovative" TAS, to me, is one which demonstrates something new/unexpected to a viewer like me who has pretty much seen everything the site currently has to offer, and, ideally, makes up a significant part of the run. If you look at the most recent SMW run, for example, a good chunk of the improvement arises from a single new glitch; however, much of the rest of the run is exactly what we've seen before time and time again and the run can't, as a whole, be considered too innovative. On the other hand, the glitched SM run shows considerably different gameplay past the point of the glitch - a significant portion of the run. I will agree, then, that the SM glitched run (for above reasons), Family Feud (tackling a new category of game), and the Chrono Trigger glitched run (for applying the relatively unexplored concept of save data corruption for massive obsolescence) can be considered innovative. I can't agree that any of the other runs mentioned here fit the criteria I had in mind, as the overall "feel" of the run compared to either their predecessors or other games of that nature isn't too out of the ordinary.
Posted: 1/13/2010 7:37 PM
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mklip2001
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You know, sure arukAdo, I'll second your nomination of SotN any%. The route change was pretty drastic. Also, I would consider the repeated enemy bouncing pretty unexpected, especially since it relies on Alucard having a low enough strength so that he doesn't kill the enemies. I'm not sure SotN any% necessarily gets my vote for this category, but it certainly deserves a nomination.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Posted: 1/13/2010 8:22 PM
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Nach
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sgrunt wrote:
An "innovative" TAS, to me, is one which demonstrates something new/unexpected to a viewer like me who has pretty much seen everything
I agree. Which is why I mentioned those two Super Metroid movies, I thought I've seen it all in Super Metroid.
sgrunt wrote:
If you look at the most recent SMW run, for example, a good chunk of the improvement arises from a single new glitch; however, much of the rest of the run is exactly what we've seen before time and time again and the run can't, as a whole, be considered too innovative.
Focusing on finding a new glitch which really breaks the game beyond what we've seen I think is a candidate to the glitch award. But exploiting new glitches found in a game is what we do here with every game, is that innovative if a new one is used? I find it much more innovative if someone takes existing knowledge of a game which has been around for ages, and finds a clever way to exploit it beyond what was done previously. I agree with nominating Chrono Trigger and the really glitched out Super Metroid run for doing crazy things with SRAM corruption which is new. But I can't agree with nominating Super Mario World, and I really believe what Super Metroid did by Taco and Kriole is really innovative in terms of Super Metroid runs in general.
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Posted: 1/13/2010 8:44 PM
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upthorn
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I definitely second the glitched chrono trigger and family feud nominations.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 3:04 AM
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alden
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Family Feud, for being an innovative TAS, rather than a TAS with some innovative strategies :)
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Posted: 1/14/2010 3:51 PM
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moozooh
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Family Feud, for opening a whole new genre for TASing.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 4:04 PM
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adelikat
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Family Feud, as it is the only TAS in the list that I think is in the original spirit of the innovative category. It does something that other TASes don't and in creative fashion. Someone exploiting the spell check mechanism of a game show video game and turning that into something novel. That is thinking outside the box.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 4:27 PM
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mmbossman
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I vote family feud as well, however Crono Trigger comes in a close second for somehow managing to make the game eat itself from the inside out.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 4:46 PM
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Kirkq
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Chrono Trigger is fairly similar in concept to gia's Pokemon Yellow run, so I believe that removes some of the "innovativeness". Voting Family Feud for reasons stated by others.
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Posted: 1/21/2010 4:38 PM
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adelikat
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Bump for final vote. I voted Family Feud. I think it is the one that best fits the spirit of this category. Using tools to do something creative with a game often means aiming for fastest completion time. But there are many other ways of taking advantage of them, and this movie demonstrated that well. And most importantly, demonstrated that in a creative new way.
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Posted: 1/26/2010 4:17 AM
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Heisanevilgenius
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Okay, I just voted against my own run for some reason. I don't know. I haven't played Chrono Trigger much and I didn't watch the whole run and what I did watch I didn't understand. Yet, I'm still impressed at how such a huge chunk of the game was skipped and I think it really is innovative. I wonder if I would have done so if I wasn't somewhat comfortably in the lead. :p Thanks to everyone who voted for me.
Posted: 1/27/2010 2:21 PM
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adelikat
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We have a winner: Family Feud. Congratulations to Heisanevilgenius.
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Posted: 1/27/2010 11:18 PM
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Heisanevilgenius
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Thanks so much. :D At this point I'd like to thank YouTube users guardiane and rickcressen for the videos that inspired me to do it, and Dispari Scuro for helping me come up with some of the entries. If I remember correctly, Dispari was responsible for the following answers: (Occupations beginning with B) Beaver and Duck Expert Zombie Party Attender (Signs no one seems to obey) Ogres Allowed Sparingly And maybe a few others I don't remember. She might have come up with "No Yodelling Allowed" as well. I don't remember. :p Anyway, those above three are hilarious and easily some of the best answers in the TAS so some credit must go to her. Thanks once again, everyone. :)
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