Submission Text Full Submission Page Publication Page
  • Aims for fastest time
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Uses death as a shortcut
  • Manipulates luck
  • Abuses programming errors
Played on Mupen64 ReRecording v8
  • Video Plugin: Jabo's Direct3D8 1.6　(dont forget to check "Copy framebuffer to RDRAM"
  • Sound Plugin: Azimer's HLE Audio v0.56 WIP 1
  • Input Plugin: N-Rage`s Direct-Input8 V2 1.80a
  • RSP Plugin: Hacktarux/Azimer hle rsp plugin
The playback of this run comes to a speedy end by means of many glitches and using JPN rom. This rom can show the message quickly than others. They'll allow to complete this game within an hour. All of the glitches and some techniques I used are only existing one. I deeply appreciated people's great discoveries and researches.
Incidentally, this run was made as just amusing movie for Japanese video site. After the putting on view in the site, I was proposed trying to submit to TASVideos. So this run contains some joking factors, slow parts and going through old route. That's why It'll able to be clipped several minutes off the records in the run.
However, as a result of thinking, I decided to submit because I won't try again in the near future. Although opinions may vary on using JPN rom, I hope you like it.
The following glitches and techniques are mainly used:
  • Escape forest with water jumpslash ESS
  • Skip the owl with Deku Stick
  • Get Gold scale in childhood
  • Skip Door of Time
  • Steal Rod
  • Bottle Adventure
  • Skip Gerudo Bridge with Hookshot
  • Skip Ganon's Castle Trials with Bomb Hovering
  • SS to Ganon to keep Master Sword
adelikat: The ending input was way longer than necessary. I chopped it and replaced the movie file. This movie is sub 1 hour!
mmbossman: The two main goals of this site are to provide entertaining movies which are typically as fast as possible. However, sometimes one facet takes more precedence than the other. We have several well optimized movies which are less than entertaining to watch, and we have some that have known improvements but have been published because they are very entertaining. Usually these known improvements are small, however the improvements they provide to the previously published movie are usually small as well. Here, the improvement is clearly much more substantial.
So that leads us to two possible solutions: 1) accept this run for what it is, an entertaining run with some flaws that obsoletes one of the two runs we currently have which can be beat in real time, or 2) reject it due to known improvements and mildly suboptimal level of play. After reading through all the responses in the discussion thread, I feel it better benefits the site and our viewers to accept and publish this run. Do I wish this run integrated some more of the known tricks which have been pointed out? Sure I do. However I don't believe that it is a wise decision to await a "perfect" run which may never come, while in the mean time continuing to have a run published which is worse than a real time run. So I am accepting this submission.
This acceptance will not result in a change of policy regarding (U) ROMs being preferable to (J) ROMs. Any future improvements should use the (U) ROM, and any resulting time lost due to slower text screens will not be used to penalize that submission, just as any time gained from faster text screens was not factored into the judging decision for this run.
Aktan: Processing... (taking forever to audio sync it)
EZGames69: For anyone planning on encoding this in the future. Make sure you use the same plugins that are listed, especially the input plugin as using the wrong one can cause a desync. And also make sure "Raw Data" is checked in the plugin settings for the input plugin. and finally for the RSP plugin, make sure you select "set to process alists inside the rsp". That should be all.

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Posted: 3/16/2010 11:56 PM
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Warepire
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Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2174
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
Well, the main reason that this uses a JPN rom as I understand it is that the TASer did not have the intention to submit this run to TASvideos until he was contacted after that he had completed the TAS and encouraged to post it here. So in my opinion voting no just because the Japanese rom was used is mentally ill. What message will it send? Currently this feels a lot like "Hey, lets invite him to TASvideos and encourage him to post his TAS just so we can reject it because it was made using the wrong language rom". I cannot speak for the quality of play though, I have followed the instructions but it desyncs in the menu for me. So I am one of those who are waiting for an encode or to be able to watch the nicovideo upload without the cuts. I am saving my vote for later.
Posted: 3/17/2010 12:03 AM
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Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
adelikat wrote:
I guess I should clear up these points: 1) This movie will not be rejected due to using the J ROM (that isn't to say it won't be rejected but that it will not be a factor) 2) If published a new run is still preferred to be a U ROM choice. Text has nothing to do with the improvements. Thus a U ROM can be a slower time than this provided that it is proven to be as a result of the text (which is on the author to prove). 3) A publication will not set a precedent for a J ROM for this movie or any other. Rather be an exception to the rule due to extreme circumstances. These issues are non-debatable. Also, people, please use some common sense.
So basically we could just replace all rules with "what the admins want that moment, so shut the fuck up". We have a word for that in german. It's called "Willkür". How can this not set a precedent for using the jap rom when the rules say it does? It would be unfair for every TAS coming after it if they aren't allowed to use it. Sure a few experts on this site will know why the next TAS isn't as fast but the general public will just think it's sloppy or something. That's not fair to the people investing time in TASing this game.
Posted: 3/17/2010 12:25 AM
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OmnipotentEntity
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Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
Slowking, an exception is an exception, an exception is not a rule. That's why it's not up for debate. And the rules have always been "what the admins want that moment, so shut the fuck up." This isn't a democracy, though sometimes the admins ask us for input or ask for a vote. Although I could see places where this run could be improved, it's played far better than the currently published run. I greatly look forward to Mr. Grunt blowing it out of the water, but until then I see no real reason not to publish it. Other than drama. And no one likes drama.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 3/17/2010 12:26 AM
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sgrunt
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Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
I greatly look forward to Mr. Grunt blowing it out of the water, but until then I see no real reason not to publish it.
I believe you mean MrGrunz. I'm not likely to improve this any time soon, after all...
Posted: 3/17/2010 12:27 AM
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OmnipotentEntity
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Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
You are correct, I apologize for the slip, it's been a long day.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 3/17/2010 12:32 AM
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sgrunt
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Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
You are correct, I apologize for the slip, it's been a long day.
No apology needed - it is called humour. :-)
Posted: 3/17/2010 12:34 AM
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honorableJay
He/Him
Joined: 8/18/2008
Posts: 104
Location: Albany, NY
Warepire wrote:
I cannot speak for the quality of play though, I have followed the instructions but it desyncs in the menu for me. So I am one of those who are waiting for an encode or to be able to watch the nicovideo upload without the cuts.
I had some desync problems myself, but found once I completely disabled AA and AF through the video plugin (and made sure my vid drivers weren't forcing it) the movie played out fine. For some reason either AF or AA (or both) causes the inventory screen to take forever to load (same as the older run that mentioned the emulation glitch with inventory screens). If I knew how to properly capture video with mupen I'd upload a copy myself :(
Posted: 3/17/2010 12:35 AM
(Edited: 3/17/2010 12:36 AM)
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Mitjitsu
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Banned User, Experienced player (532)
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
Now I've had a chance to watch it all the way I'm now able to elabarate. 1. Sub optimal route in YL section, doesn't use up to date tricks. While Grunz managed to improve some our sections by a few frames (forcing us to redo), you fell many seconds behind what me and SL were doing. 2. Again, sub-optimal route as AL espeacially playing the Prelude over the Secrenade. Some baffling strategies like sidehopping over long stretches. Missed out some tricks as well. Like Grunz said this it could be improved by about 5 mins with a better route and execution.
Posted: 3/17/2010 12:35 AM
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Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
Slowking, an exception is an exception, an exception is not a rule. That's why it's not up for debate.
Man somebody should have told Sadam Hussein that he should have said that killing all these Kurds was an exception. Because that makes everything ok and not debatable!
And the rules have always been "what the admins want that moment, so shut the fuck up." This isn't a democracy, though sometimes the admins ask us for input or ask for a vote.
Well on the sites I usually visit even the admins have to abide by the site rules. I didn't know that this site was a dictatorship. Maybe I should leave and make my own TAS site... Swordless, Grunz you care to publish on a site that is not a dictatorship in the future? ;D
Posted: 3/17/2010 12:35 AM
(Edited: 3/17/2010 12:39 AM)
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MUGG
Editor, Expert player (2313)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3855
Location: Germany
Gameboy TASer of 2015 NES TAS of 2013 Gameboy TASer of 2011 Gameboy TASer of 2010
While the Japanese version can save a margin of 5 minutes, I don't see what makes that version superior to the US version. Sure it's nice to have a final time that is the lowest possible there is, but I must admit I still prefer English language for nostalgic reasons. I can read and I know what's going on. When I see the Japanese text it somehow feels very different and foreign... it's hard to describe for me. It doesn't feel like watching a good OoT TAS and feeling nostalgic. Also, this comes to my mind here: http://tasvideos.org/1968S.html The Japanese version of Link's Awakening was used to save text scrolling time. However, this submission was rejected. Not that I want to aim at something here, it's just mere coincidence I wanted to point out.
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Posted: 3/17/2010 12:39 AM
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Dream
Joined: 10/7/2008
Posts: 12
Slowking wrote:
Sure a few experts on this site will know why the next TAS isn't as fast but the general public will just think it's sloppy or something. That's not fair to the people investing time in TASing this game.
If you mean people will compare the video length of future, slower-text runs, I think that's a fair point. However, we look at previous submissions to judge a TAS's worth (and sometimes realtime runs.) Now you're asking us compare this to future runs, which isn't really possible. And the (J) vs (U) argument is weak anyway, which is what adelikat was trying to get across.
Posted: 3/17/2010 12:44 AM
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DarkKobold
Skilled player (1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
Swordless Link wrote:
Slowi is absolutely right. If this run gets published, I'll consider the J ROM to be green-lighted for all future runs, and it will be used in the improvement.
Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! No, it's a plane! No .... it's
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Posted: 3/17/2010 12:53 AM
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Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
MUGG wrote:
While the Japanese version can save a margin of 5 minutes, I don't see what makes that version superior to the US version. Sure it's nice to have a final time that is the lowest possible there is, but I must admit I still prefer English language for nostalgic reasons. I can read and I know what's going on. When I see the Japanese text it somehow feels very different and foreign... it's hard to describe for me. It doesn't feel like watching a good OoT TAS and feeling nostalgic.
Well I want the geran version for nostalgic reasons! XD
Also, this comes to my mind here: http://tasvideos.org/1968S.html The Japanese version of Link's Awakening was used to save text scrolling time. However, this submission was rejected. Not that I want to aim at something here, it's just mere coincidence I wanted to point out.
Yeah but this run didn't have a japanese version before. The OoT run will. That's the whole point. @DarkKobold I don't see anything passive agressive in telling what is going to happen. Ofcourse they will use the japanese version. Everything else would be unfair towards them, as they can't compete against the japanese vesion with the english one.
Posted: 3/17/2010 1:01 AM
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Noob_Irdoh
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 570
Location: 33°07'41"S, 160°42'04"W
I vote no because of the reasons above. Otherwise I suggest to use the Japanese ROM also for the 120 stars Super Mario 64. What's fair, it's fair.
Posted: 3/17/2010 1:07 AM
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Andypro
Joined: 5/24/2004
Posts: 262
I voted yes for this submission. I think it would be wise to pretend for the moment as if there is no future OoT run that will be published. It takes away part of the debate, and each submission should be judged according to its own merits, not as a comparison to a future submission that doesn't yet exist. Given that, what are the remaining issues. The fact that this submission is not well-optimized and the fact that it uses the Japanese rom. To me, the former point is overridden by the fact that this obsoletes the currently published run by a huge margin. I believe even Guano knew his run was quite sub-optimal when he submitted it for publication. It still merited a yes vote and I believe this one does too. The second reason is much more valid in my opinion, but in my mind the vastness of the improvement justifies making an exception to the US rom rule. Having said that, I think those who are working on a US tas or planning the route have come to the realization that their TAS will now probably be about the same time as this one given that it will use the US rom with slower text, but include all the optimizations currently known to bring the time close to even with this submission. Thus whenever that submission comes it will not look as impressive as it otherwise would have on paper and will need to be accepted more for entertainment (which it will be). Unfortunately, whether this run is published or not, it remains an OoT tas which will be compared to whatever future submission arrives.
Posted: 3/17/2010 1:10 AM
(Edited: 3/17/2010 1:13 AM)
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adelikat
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Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4738
Location: Tennessee
TASer of 2010 NES TASer of 2010 DS TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 NES TASer of 2008 NES TAS of 2008 Funny TAS of 2008 TASer of 2007 NES TASer of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
Slowking wrote:
Of course they will use the Japanese version. Everything else would be unfair towards them, as they can't compete against the Japanese version with the English one.
I think your conclusion involves a misconception. For publication purposes, time gained by text speed is irrelevant. Let's use a hypothetical numbers: a USA movie that is 51 minutes a J movie that is 50 minutes time saved using Japanese text: 1 minute For Judgement purposes these movies are functionally equivalent. Time savers such as text are irrelevant. Game play is what matters. In fact, the history of the J vs U rule is in this very issue. Comparisons in the early days were difficult and so it was hard to discern how the ROM change affected the final time. Thus, to save that kind of confusion, the (flexible) rule was adopted. Also, there are numerous exceptions to this rule throughout the site history. Both of J ROMs obsoleting U ROMs and vice versa.
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Posted: 3/17/2010 1:10 AM
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Phallosvogel
Joined: 1/3/2006
Posts: 334
Voting yes. Cant really understand why people keep arguing about the language here, especially with those statements like "if it counts for this, it must count for that!!". How old are you? 12? If the TAS would jump from a bridge, would the other TAS have to, too? Also everybody realizes that the improvement doesnt come from using the J rom. The guy who did it never hat TASvideos in mind, so he used the rom he could most easily understand. An improvement is desperatly needed, so why not go with this. I see, that ita suboptimal, but mostly to the trained eye. Oh and I would bet my ass, that even if he did use the U rom all the NO!!-voters still would've voted no
Posted: 3/17/2010 1:30 AM
(Edited: 3/17/2010 1:38 AM)
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BadPotato
Joined: 1/26/2009
Posts: 558
Location: Canada - Québec
If you guys want to be fair with those J rom rule you should cancel this argument as well. Now it would become all about: does "an ok run with entertainement bonus" is worth for publishing, despite irrevelant sloppyness? That said, there no rule that talk about each new OoT run must have a star either. About the SwordLessLink point, I think he should simply start working with the (J)rom, if it's run isn't accepted later, there no problem... his youtube account is has almost more visit than this site.
Posted: 3/17/2010 1:38 AM
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SnufStyle420
Joined: 3/17/2010
Posts: 5
Location: AbbeyStone
Voting meh. I believe I will try my best to break down my reasons into a pros and cons list in order to best achieve my expression. Pros: Improved time compared to an old and very outdated run. Cons: Suboptimal gameplay based on currently known tricks and bugs. Similarly suboptimal route. Author admits there are slow parts and jokes inserted due to less standards while making. I believe that while this run does indeed bring about a much needed improvement to this game's page, it may not be the best submission to do so. And it seems that having a J ROM be used is somehow a big deal, however I cannot grasp why so. If it really is somehow a time saver compared to the U ROM, perhaps an exception to any rules may be allowed so that if a U ROM with better gameplay, updated tricks and glitches, and a better time could be published on top of this until a J ROM run can best show how much can be saved because of the switch. I don't think whether or not this gets published should hinge on time being saved due to ROM selection.
Posted: 3/17/2010 2:10 AM
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Femke
Joined: 5/11/2009
Posts: 17
Location: United States
I am also one of the members of this site who does not respond much, but I have been following the site and most of the runs and discussions for a few years now. I have not seen the movie yet, so I have not voted. But even without watching it, it seems like the fact that there is 5+ minutes of improvement on an hour long game is a fair basis to vote No. I doubt that a movie for any other game would be accepted with as many known improvements not included in the movie. If you ignore the fact that it is an N64 game and that it is a very popular game like Zelda and judge it like you would any other game, I think it is far more unlikely it would be published. How many other movies have been published with 5+ min(~8%) of known improvements, coming from using a suboptimal routes, subpar precision(in angles, sidehops, etc.), lack of luck manipulation, and leaving out useful, timesaving tricks. Just about all those things have been used for all the other great runs on this site, and it seems unfair that this game should be accepted along with the other runs that don't have these imperfections, just because its OoT. I do realize that this improves the current run by something like 1h 30m, but I don't think that is reason enough to publish this one. Honestly, I'd be more in favor of removing the current published run and waiting until a movie of this game that is up to the standards of this site that is known and revered for publishing movies that are considered perfect(or at least near perfect XD)
Posted: 3/17/2010 2:58 AM
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ShadowWraith
Joined: 8/7/2006
Posts: 344
Voted yes. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Laughed out loud at the Gerudo Valley when Link played an Ocarina with a Bomb for a head. Compare it to the current run, not some mythical "super-run from the future". You can do better. Good for you. I found this one great to watch, and think it should be published. And the J rom complainers should clean the sand out of their vaginas. That is all.
Posted: 3/17/2010 3:42 AM
(Edited: 3/17/2010 3:44 AM)
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Limne
Any
Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 153
Now, I realize that in general the site only wants to accept runs as optimized as well as current knowledge and expertise allow and that it's not proper form for a runner to simply ignore known improvements. Even so, I think the following would make a good addendum to the rules: "If the best possible run for a given game is not at hand then the least bad run available will have to suffice for obsoleting published submissions." That, or finally work out a way to have old runs unpublished... No, no, I'm being silly. That'll never happen, at least not soon enough that it'd be relevant to any kind of debate whatsoever. The reason the rules are the way they are now is because of the fear that you'd have people clogging the submission queue with unoptimized movies trying to snipe credit for beating old records. But, if this even is a problem, aren't there better ways around it? Suppose a time limit were established so that an unoptimized run that's still better optimized than a published run can obsolete it but no earlier than a year after the last published run's release date. It's an idea any way... It's just absurd to think that people are arguing that the published run should keep it's crown when this one is so much better. I ask, what kind of time attack do you think people coming to this site want to see? One made years ago? Or a new one that beats its time by better than half? I assure you that the ultimate world elite in Zelda TASs knows amongst themselves where improvements could be made means very little to the casual viewer. At least not until they put their knowledge and skill to work in something they can see. I think that whole mentality that TASing is something only other elite TASers can really appreciate has to go for if the community is going to remain healthy. Better could be done? Well, that would have been nice to see over the past four years or so. But now we have better, and it's at our finger tips, and for a lot of us I'm sure that's all that really matters. If better could be done, maybe it should have been done over the last several years. Maybe it should be done in the future. For now all that matters is having the best run available and this, as I understand, is far better than published run.
Posted: 3/17/2010 3:43 AM
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mmbossman
Experienced player (822)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
GBx TAS of 2008
I find it very amusing and puzzling at the same time that so many people seem to have no comprehension of the idea of exceptions to rules. Particularly when this entire site is dedicated to finding ways to circumvent rules in games.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Posted: 3/17/2010 3:43 AM
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Hoe
Joined: 7/31/2004
Posts: 183
Location: USA
one in hand is worth two in the bush?
Posted: 3/17/2010 3:49 AM
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spweasel
Joined: 1/10/2010
Posts: 59
I haven't voted yet, but I'm leaning towards no (I haven't watched it yet due to not owning a (J) copy of Z64 to dump and not liking nicovideo). The only thing that this really has in its favor is that it massively improves upon the published movie. I think that removing the old run is a better solution than publishing this one. It sounds as if the author intentionally didn't completely optimize the run and didn't use tricks that were known even before the run was made. I'd normally cut a new TASer some slack for this sort of thing (since they might not be up on all of the tricks and rules and such), but this run wasn't made for TASvideos. This was made for nicovideo, and as such has already gained the recognition of the audience it was intended for. If this really isn't up to site standards (play quality, version, etc.), I don't think this should be accepted to the site. That being said, I would gladly accept abeshi as a member of the TAS family. If he can straighten out the rough bits of the submission, I'd love to see a new run. I'd rather not have a OoT run at all than a significantly unoptimized one, be it 2.5 hours or 1 hour. The old run being an eyesore seems to make a better case for removing the old run than publishing the first run that comes around just because it's faster. For what it's worth, I really don't like it when text-heavy runs use Japanese rather than English. However, I don't think that should be enough in and of itself to prevent acceptance so long as the soonest comparable English run is accepted, even if it is slightly slower.
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