About this game

Lagrange Point was released only in Japan by Konami in 1992. This game was produced not only by workers for Konami but also by the readers of one of the video game magazines, Family Computer Magazine. The team created this game is called Game Koubou, which was founded for the anniversary of the 100th publication of that magazine. It was the readers that designed characters, monsters, events, message-texts, music and the title-screen, etc. The sound quality of this game is incredibly excellent because of the Konami's VRC7 sound generator Integrated Circuit. That's why many Japanese people say that this game is a masterpiece on Famicon, and I think that, too.
This game itself is a field-type RPG. The battle system is turn-based. The era on this game is near future. The story is that a biohazard occurred in one colony, so the investigative team headed for there. Main character is Gin, who belongs to the team. What will happen around him?

Emulator information:

  • FCUEX 2.1.3 or later version with Old PPU
Note: Please avoid using 2.1.2 or older version. It causes a chain of desyncs because the RAM is not initialized. And don't forget to check Old PPU.
Just run this script before you replay the movie.

Goals

  • Aims for fastest time
  • Takes damages to save time
  • Uses a lot of death warps as a shortcut
  • Manipulates luck
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Genre: RPG

Streaming Video

Whole run in one with full of subtitles.
If it's annoying, fewer subtitles are here. (Note: Nicovideo's account is necessary.) part1, part2, part3

How to luckmanipulate

Avoids random battles

By changing RNG when and how to push the direction key or A-button, you can avoid a random battle. You can also change the monster formation you encounter by this.
What you have to be careful is that you can't walk pushing A-button just when the step-counter gains in dungeon. I was very careful in order not to do so. On normal play you have to fight at least once every twenty steps, so avoiding random battles may be harder than it looks.

Manipulates luck in battle

The order of one turn and the action each character takes have been determined by the display of the first message in the turn. So the timing of the last character's command input is very important.
After the display of the battle messages in one turn starts, you can manipulate critical and the amount of damage by delaying the message display. The critical or the effect attack of the first actor can NOT be manipulated by delaying messages. These are manipulated by the timing of the last character's command input.
That when and how to delay pushing A-button was quite difficult problem because the results were very different even if it was the same frames' delay.

Glitches, Tricks and Strategies

Glitch Battle

First you have to disorder the enemy which attacks twice in one turn. Then when the disordered enemy attacks another enemy and beats it by the first attack, the second attack hits a glitched enemy and beats it.
The glitched enemy has a lot of EXP and Colon (Money) and is different according to the monster formations. I tested this a lot and optimized this. Ranking (Leveling) up is very long but it is necessary. Character's rank must be high in order to equip a strong weapon on this game. Obtaining infinite Colon is also quite long and essential because you need a lot of Colon in order to composite a strong weapon. Glitch battle itself is well-known to Japanese players.

Obtaining EXP and Colon running away

On this game you needn't win the battle in order to obtain EXP and Colon. Just run away after beating some enemies. This was found by me.

Item duplication glitch

When you use an item in a battle and then you are knocked out at the same turn, the item you used is not consumed. This glitch was found by me. Thanks to this glitch, I saved the time buying for one Shulla Bomb, which disorders one enemy.

Buying a hidden item

Press up + A at the same time when the cursor is the top item, which is sold at the store or the armor shop, then you can buy a hidden item. This glitch is also well-known to Japanese players. I used it in order to buy Heat Sabre x2 at Fiber City and Heat Sabre x24 at Satellite Base.

Changing direction during dialogue

Just hold the direction key during dialogue, you can change the player's direction. It's funny, in my opinion. If you are keen on reading subtitles, you might not be noticed it. This trick was found by me.

Making a door in void

This glitch can work at the limited places and was found by me. Press the direction key where the door doesn't exist just before you open a door, then you can make a door in void. It is neither timesaver nor slower, but it's funny, isn't it?

Death Warps

There are not any escaping item or spell on this game, so I have to rely on death warps.
In order to do quick death warps, first, I manipulated Gin's HP to be the lowest during ranking up. Second, monster formations are very different according to the number of step-counter when you encounter. Third, the lag when the monsters are appearing is also defferent according to the monster formations. Fourth, the minimum steps are ten on field and seven in dungeon. I checked this by over 20k re-records on another fm2. And the battle itself, all things considered, I did the fastest death warps.

Obtaining a Hydro-Wing earlier

This is a little sequence break. After obtaining an Oxygen Cylinder at Cosmo City, you can walkthrough Vesta 2 and obtain a Hydro-Wing, which enables you to warp to the town which you have ever visited. Thanks to this glitch, you can skip a dungeon to Ozone City. Although Vesta 2 is a long dungeon, I used a Hydro-Wing several times in endgame, so getting it earlier is faster. This glitch is also well-known to Japanese players.

Minimize the lag when you choose a vehicle

When you choose a vehicle, don't select a Mobile unless it is necessary. The lag for choosing a Mobile is longer.

Boss Strategy

The basic strategy is Chris's flash, Astro's bomber and then critical. Chris's flash stops enemies for two turns. It is effective even against a boss. I found this when I was watching someone's let's play on nicovideo. I feel the probability of its effectiveness is about ten percent. Any boss has its own attack animation on this game. It's cool. But, unfortunately, this is a TAS so I have to skip it by Chris's flash. Astro's bomber enhances character's attack power to be 1.5 times for three turns. Both special attacks consume their own HP. I tested and calculated in order not to have any surplus curing item.
It is needless to say that the final and the second final boss were the hardest parts. I'd like to say the final Oregi and Ash were harder than they looks. I had to manipulate not only critical twice successively but also the amount of damage to be high.

Secret message from KONAMI

If you wait for about thirty minutes after the display of the 'Fin' message on endroll, you'll see a secret message from Konami. I suggest cutting the time for waiting it like Secret of Evermore when we encode this.

Known Improvements

Like many other RPGs, better luckmanipulation would save time, but I doubt it. You can guess from the re-recording counts that I manipulated luck severely. There are a few things you may take it for slow, but it's the fastest. e.g. Morita's battle message could be cancelled but only seven frames you could take to do. I tried to cancel it but it took over seven frames to do.

At first I was very reluctant to submit it, and I have still been because of the language barrier. But Star Ocean, Metal Max, Madou Monogatari I, etc. are on this site. Some members encouraged me, so I submitted it, thanks. I hope you enjoy it.

FractalFusion: Might as well admit that I'm accepting the run. I'll handle the encoding. We'll use caitsith2's encoding.

Active player (308)
Joined: 8/25/2006
Posts: 287
The music in this game is absolutely BEAUTIFUL. It's so good I don't care about the TAS. YES. But seriously I thought the TAS was good because of the subtitles adding so much insight.
Editor, Skilled player (1941)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247
I will try to judge this submission some time. But I am currently planning to understand how the movie works first. This will take a while.
Player (159)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
Silent_Slayers wrote:
The music in this game is absolutely BEAUTIFUL.
You can say that again. Unfortunately, this was a TAS, cool music like at the boss battle couldn’t continue for a long time. Sorry, to reform subtitles has not be done. I’ve been busy recently.
Active player (292)
Joined: 12/16/2008
Posts: 458
Location: Houston
vote yes due to subtitles. I think this run would be unwatchable without them, but with them it puts it a step above some already published rpgs
Joined: 2/26/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: Minnesota
I am a sucker for commentaries and subtitles-that-act-as-commentaries. They are what kept my interest. Also, Tam was bleeding out of his mouth X¬X edit: err, yes vote.
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
Active player (435)
Joined: 7/23/2006
Posts: 389
Location: Washington
As much as I liked the subtitles, I believe it's my duty to mention that subtitles or not, the movie should stand on it's own. I think neo_omegon did a wonderful job on them, but most of the yes votes I've seen here are "yes vote because of the subtitles". It doesn't seem to me that simply because there are subtitles that this movie is therefore publishable. It's novel and innovative, but I still think it's just the wrong game to have them. I feel as though the run should be able to stand up on it's own, and not be held up by duct tape (the subtitles).
I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
Player (159)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
I’ve been rewriting subtitles into .sub file. About 40% has been done. Many yes votes and comments are very encouraging for me to rewrite it.
Deign wrote:
As much as I liked the subtitles, I believe it's my duty to mention that subtitles or not, the movie should stand on it's own.
Yes, you have a point there.
Deign wrote:
I still think it's just the wrong game to have them.
Wrong game? Of course, it’s OK you can think it, but no way for me, Japanese and some foreign audience. Shouldn’t I have submitted this run as many other TASers who are persist in their own language on youtube or nicovideo? I personally think TASing shouldn’t be done privately but publicly, so I began this thread and posted several WIPs. If this was the wrong game, almost all RPGs would be the wrong game for TASing, because it’s impossible to avoid random battles. Even on the game where it’s possible to, author took extra steps when leveling up, so I don’t think the degree of my optimization is bad. I feel cultural difference. I saw several submissions rejected just because of language problem, I thought. When I tas another game released locally, I may not be going to introduce it. Maybe some other Japanese people even think why on earth translate into English, yet foreign people never translate into Japanese. Though I wrote above various things, don’t take it for bad. I should receive any opinions. I love Deign’s movies, FF4, Mega Man, etc. Yeah, anyway, I should finish rewriting subtitles ASAP.
Active player (435)
Joined: 7/23/2006
Posts: 389
Location: Washington
Well mostly my point about it being the wrong game i just because it's extremely obscure and most people will never have heard of the game. RPG TASes tend to stand on their own 95% because of audience familiarity. I do not doubt at all that you put in a lot of work and did a wonderful job. That I can see from the run. But the entertainment aspect of the run, partly because of the obscurity, and partly because of the 5 minutes of watching you level up, is brought down dramatically. If I was rating the run, I'd probably vote T-8 and E-2. But I'm just one person, if you get this run published, I'll say congratulations all day. It's nothing personal, more or less just a comment about how easily people click the yes button instead of truly considering the options nowadays. Good luck neo_omegon =) On the other hand, if the run was FF4 or illusion of gaia, or secret of evermore (obviously my own personal tastes) on the (J) rom and there was this quality of subtitles. That would get the yes vote in about 6 seconds. The reason it would take so long is cause my head would explode and take my body 6 seconds to fall on the yes button!
I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
Editor, Skilled player (1941)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247
neo_omegon, I'm planning to write subtitles. But I'm interested in your subtitles as well. I plan to make two encodes, one without any subtitles, and one with subtitles. The one with subtitles will have extra space below the screen, so that the subtitles do not interfere with the game screen. I have reviewed your run thoroughly and it is well-planned out. I'll vote yes. I have a question though. What is BP and what does it do?
sgrunt
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
FractalFusion wrote:
I plan to make two encodes, one without any subtitles, and one with subtitles.
No need for that - if you have the subtitles in .sub or .srt format, you can just add them in during the muxing process as soft subtitles, which is preferred for commentary-type subtitles (the movie info subtitles still need to be hard-embedded, of course).
Editor, Skilled player (1941)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247
From my experience, soft subtitles directly on the game screen are highly annoying. That's why I'd place them in a black space underneath the screen. Either the normal encode must include the black space, or two encodes must be made. Edit: Using AVISynth, it is possible to cut it down to one encode, and let AVISynth place the black space. But then the subtitles would have to be in the AVISynth script directly, as AVISynth can only read external text files in its custom format.
Player (159)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
FractalFusion wrote: What is BP and what does it do?
BP means battery point. The BP system is to this game as the weapon energy system to mega man games. On this game, you can’t attack enemy without consuming BP. The stronger the weapon is, the more BP you consume when you attack. When BP is shortage or you don’t equip any weapon, your damage against enemy is crappy. At the second Oregi battle on my run, Gin didn’t equip any weapon so his damage was very small. Sorry for my slow work, but I finished rewriting subtitles into .sub and .srt file. .sub -> http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?k7n7eieji0rcdaq .srt -> http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?z2fw6t6bo7nj4xw In these files: -As I have said, I summarized almost all the dialogues, because they were too fast to be read if all of them were put. -I deleted step-counter. -I only showed max HP of bosses. -I showed the speaker in each dialogue. -I reduced the duration time of subtitles. (Might be too fast to be read.) Feel free to customize and redistribute it. I’m not good at editing movie. I wish I could help.
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
Due to neo_omegon's subtitles, I shall be encoding this in HD and stuffing onto YouTube... when my computer is finished torturing itself with Dungeons and Dragons.
HHS
Active player (282)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
Generating subtitles automatically is easy. Here is an example, displaying your HP in Mega Man 5.
prevtext="";
prevframe=emu.framecount()
sub=io.open("test.sub","w+b")
srt=io.open("test.srt","w+b")
srtcount=1
while true do
	text=string.format("HP = %3d",AND(memory.readbyte(0xb0),127));
	if(text~=prevtext) then
		frame=emu.framecount()
		time=string.format("%02d:%02d:%02d,%03d",(frame/21600)%60,(frame/3600)%60,(frame/60)%60,(frame*50/3)%1000);
		if(frame~=prevframe) then
			sub:write("{"..prevframe.."}{"..frame.."}"..prevtext.."\r\n");
			srt:write(srtcount.."\r\n"..prevtime.." --> "..time.."\r\n"..prevtext.."\r\n\r\n");
			prevframe=frame
			srtcount=srtcount+1
		end
		prevtext=text
		prevtime=time
	end
	emu.frameadvance()
end
Player (159)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
Thank you for making the script, HHS. If your script is applied, it will be possible to extract all the data of my first subtitles, though I don’t know the way for the lack of my programming skills. And maybe these subtitles are accepted for the publishing.
neo_omegon wrote:
.sub -> http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?k7n7eieji0rcdaq .srt -> http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?z2fw6t6bo7nj4xw
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
Playlist Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 I'll add subtitles when the movie is published. It'll be difficult work, manually splitting them.
Editor, Skilled player (1941)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247
neo_omegon (and Flygon), I'm trying out a different subtitle format: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SubStation_Alpha This format allows for different fonts, bold, italics, and positioning, as well as others. Aktan suggested me to use this. I looked at your subtitles already but I am changing the content: - I am retranslating (some of) the Japanese. - I am putting in place names so the audience has an idea where in the world the player is. I took the names from an English walkthrough on gamefaqs. - I am putting extra messages during the movie that clarify some of the game. Most importantly, I am using battle messages, and I will include the last few bosses' HP. After I'm done, I'll post it here so that someone can check if it is good (subtitle locations, duration, place names, and information).
Editor, Skilled player (1941)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247
Here's the subtitle file: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?fzws7ihwose9sf3 Feel free to review and comment.
Skilled player (1308)
Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.
Any progress on the encode? Ive been wondering since this has been accepted for quite a while now.
NitroGenesis
He/Him
Editor, Experienced player (551)
Joined: 12/24/2009
Posts: 1873
The filename is ASSSS
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
Player (159)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
Thanks a million, FractalFusion! I'll check it asap. edit:I watched. This is the best subtitles for publication. I can’t thank you enough. Jin and Stolte are better spellings, thanks. There are three things to be corrected: Line 256: "This special skill is very useful on the next boss." (at Cosmo City) This should be deleted. I didn’t use Jin’s decisive skill. Line 281: "You are strong. Let's call it a day. Goodbye!"(after first Ledesma) Same as in Line 280. Line 399: "Bio Paradise" Bio Paradise is the last field. The last dungeon is called Bio Palace. If you use Ctrl+F and enter “Bio Palace” in the walkthrough on GameFAQs, you’ll see it. (Though there is written Central City as Center City near, “Center” is better than “Central”, I think.) As far as the duration, I can’t say anything. Native English speaker should check it, though I think it OK. Although we used “Shulla” for spelling “シュラ” (means “修羅,” which means “shamble” literally), spelling “Shura” or “Shula” might be correct. (I don’t care whether.)
Editor, Skilled player (1941)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247
Thank you, neo_omegon. Here is the new subtitle file: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?cn3st8s2az46eaz I made some changes: - I put "Subtitles by FractalFusion, neo_omegon" at the beginning. - I put extra battle messages in the 2nd and 3rd glitch battles. I forgot them before. - I changed all of "Shulla" to "Shura". - I removed "This special skill is very useful on the next boss." - I merged "You are strong. Let's call it a day. Goodbye!" and "Ledesma left." - I changed "Bio Paradise" to "Bio Palace".
Editor, Skilled player (1941)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247
Here is caitsith2's encode made into mkv with subtitles muxed in: http://www.archive.org/details/LagrangePointTasByNeo_omegonIn10325.1
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 14908
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [1605] NES Lagrange Point by neo_omegon in 1:03:25.10
Onyx3173
She/Her
Joined: 5/30/2010
Posts: 76
Location: Oregon, USA
Maybe I'm missing something but to get FractalFusion's subtitles, I just need to click the commentary button don't I?
I am a figment of my imagination.