Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
WIP 2
Here's the new WIP, which takes us up until the end of the first cycle.
I'm confident that it is very highly optimised and well executed, however, there will be a few frames lost through desync in some areas which aren't visible but if you were to try and obsolete it you would.
Anyways, i think that this is a good start. It is very different from AKA's run and is also faster due to route revision (roughly 27 seconds last time I checked).
So watch it and hopefully bkDJ can encode a good AVI. I can provide a savestate but it will probably desync so it is more reliable just to watch it from the start. Remember and give feedback :)
Very nice WIP, I'm impressed by your work. There were 3 things I'd like to mention though...
1) Have you tried backflipping over the counter in the stock pot inn? I'm not sure, but it may be faster.
2) Why didn't you skip tatl's message right before entering the clock tower?
3) Doesn't it save time to charge you bubble while running towards the skull kid?
Yay it ran all the way through for me although you never skipped the Navi text going into the tower, but the rest seems fine and optimal, although I did mention this earlier you can shoot a bubble at the middle of the clock tower in order to get three ruppees, which would give you a quick upgrade to the adult wallet as you'll need to get the chest in ECT. This part of the game is very trival compared to the rest of the game, although I'm not exacly sure what order everything will be done in clock town before we leave, I might try a few things myself, just remember when going into snow mountain activate the sword glitch by using the navi text and not the bomb which mwl said eariler.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
Yautja --
1)That does sound feasible, I've never seen it done though. I just never thought to try it and since I'm coming down the stairs and so I'm unsure how much time would be saved by that.
2) After watching AKA's WIP I never noticed there not being a navi text and so nor did I notice it appearing in mine, it must have just slipped through the net. I'll redo if it makes that much of a difference, however, I am now in Clock Town after getting the deku mask so it might be a long way back to go and more desyncs for a second or so of improvements.
3) I tried that...but for a different reason. I thought if I could get closer to Skull Kid I would be closer to the Ocarina but the game resets Link's position after the cutscene so I dismissed it and must have not thought to do any more.
AKA --
As regards to the three rupees for the upgrade I keep hearing conflicting arguements from you and mwl and do not know whose ideas to go by. I've been going by mwl because his is closest to the route I got from petrie which keeps things simple for me. What is the plan for these rupees?
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3516
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Mukki, can you tell me if you have changed anything in your plugins because even though I match all of your plugins, Link doesnt move after you have entered your name.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Mukki, can you tell me if you have changed anything in your plugins because I even though I match all of your plugins, Link doesnt move after you have entered your name.
You need to delete the file and reload a movie and create a savestate when the power is switched on.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
No, I haven't changed anything. I tried to stay as simple as possible by just using the default plugins with the exception of the TAS input plugin which I used for more precise movement. I've been using the same plugins all along.
I'm afraid that it will either work or it won't, that is the nature of the beast (the beast being the most tempermental emulator combined with the most tempermental game).
bkDJ// I had my worst desyncs there and thereabouts so it doesn't surprise me that it fucks up. I don't really know what can be done... I'll encode an AVI if you're still having problems.
I did mention this earlier you can shoot a bubble at the middle of the clock tower in order to get three ruppees, which would give you a quick upgrade to the adult wallet as you'll need to get the chest in ECT.
The adult wallet upgrade requires 200 rupees, not 100.
1) Have you tried backflipping over the counter in the stock pot inn? I'm not sure, but it may be faster.
It is definitely faster. I just tried it and the difference comes out by whole seconds, not frames.
2) Why didn't you skip tatl's message right before entering the clock tower?
I brought this up a while ago. If I recall correctly, he said there wasn't a way to do it.
3) Doesn't it save time to charge you bubble while running towards the skull kid?
How do you charge up a bubble and run at the same time?
I'll redo if it makes that much of a difference, however, I am now in Clock Town after getting the deku mask so it might be a long way back to go and more desyncs for a second or so of improvements.
To be honest, I'd rather see a movie as close to perfect right now as possible, even if the revisions delay its completion. Here's why:
(1) Unlike OoT, MM has pretty much been broken to its limits, barring some freak trick.
(2) Making an improved run will take a lot of time, so if you can make this the final run, that would be best. I can give a heads-up for petrie and pyh to offer their criticism, too.
However, it's your choice. I can understand if you want to move on.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
hey whadya know, it's actually running for me. it wasn't before. I'll view and see if it desynchs or not.
... desynched right at the very beginning, during the backflip section he presses Z, turns the wrong way and goes the wrong direction while backflipping.
wait was using wrong settings... lemme try again
nope same thing, there's a turn around
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
mwl wrote:
To be honest, I'd rather see a movie as close to perfect right now as possible, even if the revisions delay its completion...However, it's your choice. I can understand if you want to move on.
Before I make the decision I'll wait for Petrie and pyh to see what they think. Also, I'll PM Maximus about his TAS editor to find out if when it is made Mupen compatible I could separately record the Stock Pot Inn sequence and graft it in.
But you're right, unless there is a collosal breakthrough in Mupen development that makes it not shit i'll probably be the first and last person to do this so it should be as perfect as possible.
Also, it should be noted that I'll be going to university (hopefully) in september at which time all my computational activities move onto a laptop which can not handle this game. What I'm getting at is that this run can't turn into a FODA-like year long TAS or it won't get finished. I'm confident I can get this done long before then as I am spending 2-3 hours + per day on it, but we need to know what we are doing.
Before I make the decision I'll wait for Petrie and pyh to see what they think. Also, I'll PM Maximus about his TAS editor to find out if when it is made Mupen compatible I could separately record the Stock Pot Inn sequence and graft it in.
If hex-editing works out, that'd be awesome. Hopefully it does...
But you're right, unless there is a collosal breakthrough in Mupen development that makes it not shit i'll probably be the first and last person to do this so it should be as perfect as possible.
Indeed, and hence your efforts are very much appreciated.
Also, it should be noted that I'll be going to university (hopefully) in september at which time all my computational activities move onto a laptop which can not handle this game. What I'm getting at is that this run can't turn into a FODA-like year long TAS or it won't get finished. I'm confident I can get this done long before then as I am spending 2-3 hours + per day on it, but we need to know what we are doing.
I think that's plenty of time to optimize about 2-2.5 hours of solid gameplay. MM is not cutscene-heavy like OoT, so I'd say it's a bit more work than Guano's run...but it's also not as trick-intensive as FODA's run. There will be points in the game where you'd be completing dungeons almost normally, except with items you shouldn't have. :) Just be sure to master your bomb/bombchu hovers, superslides, and quickspins, and you'll be pretty much set.
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
Just to let you know: The WIP worked perfectly fine for me (after I downloaded the TAS Input Plugin). I don't remember much of this game, so honestly, I have no idea what you're doing. But sometimes I wonder why you do the A-move and sometimes the backwalking?
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
spockybiemmichab wrote:
But sometimes I wonder why you do the A-move and sometimes the backwalking?
Ah, I'll fill that one, I forgot to mention.
When you enter a new area in Clock Town for the first time there is a small movie showing you around it quickly. After this movie the game does not allow you to immeadiately use Z targeting for some reason but does allow a Deku spin. In these cases it is more optimal to use one and then backwalk to the destination, I hope that clears everything up.
I did mention this earlier you can shoot a bubble at the middle of the clock tower in order to get three ruppees, which would give you a quick upgrade to the adult wallet as you'll need to get the chest in ECT.
The adult wallet upgrade requires 200 rupees, not 100.
Um, you only get 99 rupees at a time. so 99 + 99 = 198. You need 2 more rupees for the adult wallet. I think hes saying that these are the 2(3) rupees.
it's just so weird that the game lets me get up to scarecrow using direct64, but only up to the flower flying with jabo 1.6, unless sound is synced to gameplay. there really needs to be a better way to standardize this so it's not so ridiculously machine-/person-/moonphase- dependant :(
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
In regards to the backflip over the counter; do I do this in both instances (i.e. when first entering the Stock Pot in and then after Grandma's story) or only after Grandma's story. I ask because it will be clearly faster after the story since I am using the ground floor door but I'm still unsure about the first.
EDIT -- I recorded a movie from a savestate of this area doing this and it did in fact turn out slower by about 30 frames, it wasn't as intensely TASed (about 105 rerecords to a 40 second movie). I went over the counter on both occasions which is probably why. I really only think it will be faster the second time.
In regards to the backflip over the counter; do I do this in both instances (i.e. when first entering the Stock Pot in and then after Grandma's story) or only after Grandma's story. I ask because it will be clearly faster after the story since I am using the ground floor door but I'm still unsure about the first.
EDIT -- I recorded a movie from a savestate of this area doing this and it did in fact turn out slower by about 30 frames, it wasn't as intensely TASed (about 105 rerecords to a 40 second movie). I went over the counter on both occasions which is probably why. I really only think it will be faster the second time.
It's only faster on the second time, as you're proceeding to exit the Inn. My apologies for not being clear.
