Here is a run of Kirby Super Star that makes use of the game's 2-player capabilities. This was pretty difficult, because I am not two people (and I only have one small keyboard). My aim was still to make this as fast as possible, so I don't use the second player in places where it would only slow me down. There are a few cases where some time is sacrificed for entertainment, however. Note that I use Wheelie Rider kirby a lot, and the helper is lost between games and clearly less important than kirby, so most of the run doesn't look very 2-player.
As the game is divided up into "mini"-games, here's a general description of what I do in each one (mostly about what abilities I used, because that's where the main strategic decisions are):
Spring Breeze: This game mode is very short and simple. I go with the Bomb ability for a helper, and pick up Ice for kirby (note: I make Ice kirby run faster than normal and be partially invincible by tapping the direction to move in every other frame). I take damage at some boss fights to save time and/or sanity. I purposely lose my ability against King Dedede in order to spit it at him as a finishing blow because ability stars do enormous damage.
Gourmet Race: This is supposed to be a race against King Dedede, but I just treated it as a race against time like everything else. Kirby actually handles quite differently in this game mode than in all other game modes, so the fastest way to get around is a little different. (Most notably, fast jumping is possible by letting go of the direction button at the start of a jump). I get the Bird ability in the 3rd race because it flies extremely fast (in this game mode) compared to the other abilities.
Dyna Blade: I grab the Parasol ability at the start because it's actually useful for mobility. (No helper here). I go out of the way for a Super candy that lets me zoom to the end of the level and instant-kill a miniboss in the process. In the next level, I make a helper into a wheelie and ride that wheelie for the rest of this game mode, because that makes Kirby really fast, and amazingly strong thanks to the stars he can snort out when he's riding it (only works with 2 players - wheelie controls movement, kirby controls the stars). I grabbed a Hammer which was kind of unnecessary but it did help kill a miniboss (bug) faster. Thanks to wheelie stars, Dyna Blade barely gets a chance to land. :)
Revenge of Metaknight: This is apparently everyone's favorite mode, or at least it's well-suited for time attacking (besides a few auto-scrolling parts). I inhale 2 ability-giving enemies at once to get Mix -> Wheel for a wheelie rider right from the start. I also went and killed the heavy lobster boss twice (as did Zurreco in his run), despite this wasting a little bit of time. I get the Stone ability for kirby to speed up the 3x wispy woods (I couldn't manipulate Mario, but see if you can spot Samus), then I'm required to get the Flame ability to light a cannon fuse. There are some interesting teamwork opportunities after this. At the final battle with Metaknight, I'm basically required to get the Sword ability.
The Great Cave Offensive: This would be much longer, but I skip all treasures. I get Bird for a little while, then I'm able to Mix a wheelie helper, and again zoom to the end on it.
Milky Way Wishes: In this mode, inhaling enemies to get their ability doesn't work, have to get them (permanently) from ability pedestals. Although there are 2 ways around this (a helper can copy anything by touching it after tapping A a few times, or you can go to a hidden area to get the Copy ability that lets kirby copy anything) I think they would end up being slower. So, I go to Skyhigh first so I can get Wheel for a wheelie rider, which requires I be able to light a cannon fuse so I also pick up Jet (which also turned out to be useful for mobility). with Jet kirby and Wheelie helper, I zoom through the rest of the planets to the end. (Apparently kirby and the helper don't get along sometimes, which you may notice after bosses that take a long time to die...) As if this game didn't already have enough variety (which may be true of this run; sorry for such heavy use of wheelie rider but it's undeniably faster to use it), there is a gradius-type shooter before the final boss. (Also, pay attention before/after the final boss fight...)
I know this run isn't perfect. There are a few obvious (at least to me) mistakes and probably many more not-so-obvious mistakes. It could also be more precise (many actions aren't per-frame optimized) and the 2nd player could have been ignored less. However, overall I think it's still pretty good, and it's definitely a lot faster than the currently published 1-player run. Seeing as how the game is highly non-hex-editable (so I'd basically have to start over to change it) and I've had enough of time-attacking this game (despite how much I like it), I don't intend to go back to improve this anytime soon. I hope you enjoy it, though. (thanks to Zurreco and samurai goroh for help making this run.)
(EDIT: I should probably mention what mistakes I've noticed I made: (1) In Spring Breeze, I didn't need to give Kirby the Bomb ability, since the helper could've done the bombing until I got Ice. (2) I don't use super-fast climbing for one ladder. (3) I could probably have found some way to manipulate enemies to get Mix in Spring Breeze and/or Dyna Blade. (4) I didn't do a Parasol dash for some reason at one place in a zig-zag part of a Dyna Blade level. (5) When I got the wheel in Dyna Blade, it would probably have been faster to get it from the wheelie shortly before the wheel ability pedestal with the rapid-tap-A-to-die-then-touch-enemy trick. (6) I flapped too fast to gain optimal vertical speed with the bird in the 3rd round of the Gourmet Race. (7) I somehow lost time compared to the other run in the room in Metaknight where I have to light a fuse. (8) I could've done the post-Skyhigh planets in a better order to shorten the trip to Nova. (9) I didn't test if the mine carts in the Great Cave Offensive were faster - they definitely don't seem like it, but I later noticed that they can be controlled with frame precision to give super-speed boosts so it could be comparable after all. (10) I don't think I understand the water physics very well, so I feel that all the underwater parts can be done faster although I'm not sure how.)
Emulator used: the v5 found at: Forum/Topics/1816 The smv can also be viewed with Snes9x 1.43 WIP1

DeHackEd: Processing


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15544
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #578: nitsuja's SNES Kirby Super Star in 41:56.17
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Oh, this puts my movie to shame... This makes me wish I had gone the extra mile and made a 2P version. Aside from a few tiny tiny errors, this gets a "Yes, of course" vote from me. EDIT: Would have loved to see LESS Wheelie Rider :p
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Spacecow
He/Him
Joined: 6/21/2004
Posts: 247
Location: New Hampshire
Wow, I had no idea the little star you shoot out as Wheelie Rider was so powerful. That's crazy. Seeing less Wheelie Rider would have been nice, but it's not required, obviously, since most games don't even give you the multiple playing options Kirby does. Anyway, voted 'yes.'
Editor, Player (54)
Joined: 12/25/2004
Posts: 634
Location: Aguascalientes, Mexico
A definitively yes, though adding the Arena would be sweet (you would just need to reset the game after beating MWW to save time...). Also IIRC, you don't need to play the Gourmet Race to beat the game, though it's cool to observe it... BTW, how do you climb the stairs so fast?
I'm the best in the Universe! Remember that!
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
I agree about the wheelie rider, but less wheelie rider means slower... I'd love to see a run whose goal is to put every ability in the game to good use for roughly equal amounts of time, or at least a "no wheelie, except where it belongs to the plot" run... could be a separate category or something. Actually, as a less-crazy idea, maybe runs of individual games within this game could be done and published? (They each even have their own credits and everything.) I think this game has way more than enough variety to warrant multiple categories of runs. About the Arena, I considered it, but then I realized that if I was going for speed I'd still use only wheelie rider for all the battles, and there's already enough of that in the run.
samurai goroh wrote:
BTW, how do you climb the stairs so fast?
I assume you mean the ladders. What I do is alternate jumping for 3 frames and climbing for 1 frame since 1 frame of climbing is enough to reset the jump acceleration to max. You can turn "show input" on (with a hotkey, default is comma) and frame advance through parts of the game if you want to see what input made them happen, for things like this.
Player (138)
Joined: 8/27/2004
Posts: 165
This is really fast, and it's a really nice run. My biggest gripe (and this isn't about your playing) is that I really hate going through the Great Cave without getting all the stuff, but that will probably make the video longer and I doubt if it would provide any more entertainment.
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Yeah, but there were plans to make a 100% run of just The Great Cave Offensive. (Of course, then people would want a completely 100% run where you beat Dynablade with both secret levels opened, Milky Way Wishes with all the abilities obtained, and The Arena so that you get the Sound Test. Heh.)
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Yeah, but there were plans to make a 100% run of just The Great Cave Offensive. (Of course, then people would want a completely 100% run where you beat Dynablade with both secret levels opened, Milky Way Wishes with all the abilities obtained, and The Arena so that you get the Sound Test. Heh.)
MWW with all abilities obtained and at least most of them used is something I could see being entertaining. And I would still like to see a 100% Great Cave Offensive run because actually I've never found all the treasures and I don't think it'll take quite as long as people think without the getting-lost-all-the-time part that happens when playing it normally.
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Yeah, that's right. There's just a couple of places that split into three, and one weird place that sorta goes in a ring, so then you just make sure to hit every side room along the way.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
GCW 100% won't take an insanely long time, but you would need to do a 2P run and no one has said that they are willing to do so. If someone does a 100% run, I can tell them how to get every treasure.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15544
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [318] SNES Kirby Super Star by nitsuja in 41:56.17
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
I didn't know 2P movies obsoleted 1P movies... Hrmm :/
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
Personally I feel that the two movies are not different enough to justify two movies being on the page simultaneously.
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Great movie! I especially loved how you got the two players to interact, especially during the RPG downtime. <^_^> By the way, was that a Wind Waker reference I saw you slip in there? <O_o>
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Joined: 7/9/2004
Posts: 13
Great movie (loved the interaction) but theres just something I have to question. I noticed in the castle level of Dynablade that when you took out the Bonkers (hammer guy), you took sucked him up and swallowed him when you landed and then hopped on the wheelie. You CAN swallow enemies in midair you know, using this knowledge, wouldn't it save a few frames to swallow an enemy in midair and land on the wheelie helper?
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Zurreco: Hmm, I wasn't sure whether it would obselete it, I think they were pretty different, although I know the 1P one can also be improved with at least some better routes and the mistake caught later with the nova reactor boss fight. Ferret Warlord: Sorry to disappoint you but... what Wind Waker reference? (Actually I haven't played that game.) I found the interaction scenes pretty fun to do, and when I realized the game gave all the control necessary to make it look like Kirby killed the helper, I couldn't resist doing that at the very end, despite it increasing the frame count a little (it didn't affect the AVI time). BlackMagic: I'm pretty sure I tried this... but maybe it is possible. Anyway, I think it might save more time to not even get the hammer ability at all, although that would mean yet another ability not shown off.
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
You haven't played Wind Waker? Don't worry about it then. The reference to that game I was refering to is a pretty big spoiler. Still, you managed to act out a scene from that game almost perfectly in this run. Quite funny that it was inadverdant! :P
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Joined: 7/9/2004
Posts: 13
nitsuja wrote:
I'm pretty sure I tried this... but maybe it is possible. Anyway, I think it might save more time to not even get the hammer ability at all, although that would mean yet another ability not shown off.
EDIT: I'm an idiot, I thought you meant you didn't know about it. You definitly would have shaved off some time if you swallowed in midair then landed on the wheelie instead of jumping on in the next room. All you got to do is press A in midair, heres a Snes9x movie of me doing it. http://home.ripway.com/2005-3/270828/SwallowMidAir.zip
Joined: 4/23/2004
Posts: 150
Fast neat run. Fast-paced for such a segmented game. I have on SNES (PAL). I haven't really played it through, but at the first gourmet race stage, wouldn't it perhaps be faster to inhale the first block, and exhale it to destroy the next and resume running as soon as possible, rather than sliding through. (I'm sure you've already tested, but this was faster for me, comparing against previous runs when I played it on console. Not that that's much of an indication, but it's made me curious.) Andreas
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Ferret Warlord wrote:
You haven't played Wind Waker? Don't worry about it then. The reference to that game I was refering to is a pretty big spoiler. Still, you managed to act out a scene from that game almost perfectly in this run. Quite funny that it was inadverdant! :P
Hah... Now Nitsuja should play The Wind Waker and see his scene acted out.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
great game, great run, entertaining all the way, even though i dont like long runs i could enjoy this. good job
Joined: 6/20/2006
Posts: 142
Ferret Warlord wrote:
You haven't played Wind Waker? Don't worry about it then. The reference to that game I was refering to is a pretty big spoiler. Still, you managed to act out a scene from that game almost perfectly in this run. Quite funny that it was inadverdant! :P
I want to know what frame this reference is on, or you could PM me what the reference was if you don't want to spoil it for everyone. =)
Post subject: Could the Arena be done faster without the Wheelie?
Joined: 10/7/2006
Posts: 4
I've been thinking about the Arena and I remembered I used to wish I could have a second player be the "Copy" character with a turbo button. Can someone verify whether or not the a Copy Friend has a stronger attack than the Wheelie Rider's star?
Joined: 9/12/2009
Posts: 60
Location: None of Your Business, USA
This movie is clearly improvable now because of the fire and jet glitches that have been discovered... I think smns72 is working on a new one. It might take a while because manipulating the glitches are difficult (at least to me because I am only 13...). But I have done it before Anyways, a definite NO
Kaylee
She/Her
Editor, Active player (434)
Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada
This is four years old...why did you bump this?