Sonic The Hedgehog TAS by JXQ (v2)

Essentials:
This run satisfies the following criteria:
  • Aims for fastest time
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Ignores delays caused by bonus effects
  • Emulator used: Gens 9Z
  • Suggested Screenshot:
Armed with the ability to watch Sonic's speed (and other values), I set to improve my previous run. Sonic has the paradox of accelerating faster in the air, but losing speed during his ascent. Having direct access to this value made things much simpler to optimize, and I'm surprised at how much time I was able to squeeze out of this run.
I worked on this run and my Knuckles run concurrently. The games were similar enough that doing them together helped keeped things fresh in my mind, yet different enough that it didn't get too repetitive.
I suggest watching this run first before the Knuckles run, because this run shows how the game was meant to be played before watching Knuckles break that mold.
Times:
LevelTimeFrames Improved over v1
Green Hill 10:240
Green Hill 20:1719
Green Hill 30:3111
Marble 10:44**136
Marble 20:52*47
Marble 31:12*54
Spring Yard 10:2217
Spring Yard 20:2812
Spring Yard 30:58*27
Labyrinth 10:4014
Labyrinth 20:51*69
Labyrinth 31:07*21
Star Light 10:21*24
Star Light 20:16*64
Star Light 30:43*62
Scrap Brain 10:3238
Scrap Brain 20:41**133
Scrap Brain 30:1820
Final Zone1:130
Bolded times have been improved from the previous run. A star is an improvement of one second; two stars is an improvement of two.
Altogether, 768 frames were gained in the levels. However, due to extra bonus countdowns and retarded baby seals, 122 of those frames were lost. Thus, the overall improvement is 646 frames.
General Improvements:
If Sonic is running or jumping and has velocity over 1536, his velocity will be capped at that speed if forward is pressed. Slopes give Sonic velocity beyond his "maximum" of 1536 when jumping at a decline. By seeing this in the memory viewer, I refrained from holding forward until the speed returned to it's normal maximum.
Sonic accelerates faster in the air than on the ground, but every time his jump peaks, his speed lowers temporarily. (This can be avoided by running into a ceiling during the jump) Thus it's necessary to determine the best way to accelerate to maximum speed based on the environment and current speed.
When rolling, Sonic has a speed cap of 4096 (approximately 2.5 * max running speed). If Sonic is forced into a running animation, he can run faster than this, though he will be decelerating toward his maximum running speed (since -> cannot be pressed). This technique gained a bit of time during very fast segments.
Points of Interest:
  • Green Hill 2 - New strategy to eject from the wall after bouncing off the bee just before the speed shoes. Credit to nfq.
  • Marble 1 - The two main improvements here come from using an enemy to push the block faster, and rolling through the spikes afterwards instead of jumping. This was enough early improvement to make it to the moving platform before it entered the wall.
  • Spring Yard 1 - Taking this top route allowed for less jumping.
  • Spring Yard 3 - I paused at the beginning in order to get through the first part of the level without delay. It doesn't make a difference time-wise, but it looks a lot cooler.
  • Labyrinth 1 - I was able to get inside the wall by ducking on the very left of the first rising platform. Unfortunately, there was no time-saving application to be found.
  • Labyrinth 2 - The final jump out of water is delayed because the water level is too high for Sonic to jump to full height at first.
  • Star Light 2 - New strategy to control velocity and fall through the final platforms faster. Credit to AKA.
  • Scrap Brain 1 - I really should have found this jump over the second pair of fire things when I first did this run. I tried to improve the level to get 0:31, but was unable to do so.
  • Scrap Brain 2 - My favorite level in this run :)
Thanks to:
  • Upthorn, for going above and beyond helping with Gens memory watching and even coding a special version for use in this run.
  • Xebra, for watching my progress and giving encouragement and ideas for improvement.
Enjoy the run!

adelikat: Accepting as an improvement to the current run.

adelikat: Setting this to delayed while the author attempts improvements.

Truncated: Setting back to accepted. Including the new trick would force a complete redo, which it seems isn't about to happen, but there is no reason to keep our current run instead of accepting this one.

upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (388)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
JXQ wrote:
AKA there's an easter egg in the Knuckles hack that can make the chaos emerald run more worthwhile. Check the forum linked to in that submission text for details.
Except that it requires a cheat code to make use of, which is practically an automatic rejection.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
Anon wrote:
WHAT DO YOU MEAN, TWO TASES
LOL, very nice :) (Referencing this pic, for those unfamiliar) Upthorn: Well yes, but it just unlocks a cool feature. It'd be a neat run anyways, not meant to obsolete a normal run. Maybe the hack won't be approved and it won't even matter ;)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
There are actually two codes, a cheat version and a non-cheat version. But here's the problem I see: - Using the cheat version, people will object on the grounds that it isn't a 100% run and the cheat makes it too easy, although I bet it doesn't make it easier to TAS. - Using the non-cheat version, people will object on the grounds that it's the same as JXQ's S1K run except made longer with bonus stages and slightly faster elsewhere. JXQ: Were you inspired by this topic? I would have said I can't believe you finished both of them already, except... I can. Slightly offtopic: I wonder how a run of Sonic 2 & Knuckles (an official hack, unlike S1&K or S3&K) would be categorized. ...
JXQ wrote:
Fixed.
JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
[20:26] <JXQ> LOL [20:27] <JXQ> nitsuja is my dad (it's an expression) Yeah, with regards to S1&K + emeralds, I guess it's a no-win situation. The game goes by very quickly as Knuckles, anyway, so it may not look much different after all, but more different than Sonic 1 + emeralds.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Morrison
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 8/2/2006
Posts: 195
Location: USA
Even better than the last one. Hats off.
twitch.tv/Retrogaming2084
Post subject: Re: #1383: JXQ's Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog in 18:17
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
NesVideoAgent wrote:
Xebra, for watching my progress and giving encouragement and ideas for improvement.
So much credit for about a sentence of advice on a single level. If you're referring to all my encouragement the first time around ... hey, I'm happy to oblige :) .
JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
Encouragement comes in many forms ;) But seriously, if you hadn't complained so much about Marble 1 the first time around, I may not have had as much motivation to search for those improvements this time, so at the end of the day it's a good thing.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I enjoyed this run a WHOLE LOT more than the Knuckles run. Couldn't really glitch through anywhere. Which is how I like it. :3 I voted Yes. :3
JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
Please hold off on this publication. Upthorn has found a substantial improvement which must be added to this run, and a few levels will need redoing as a result (but most will be hex-edited back into place). Should be done around the new year.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User, Experienced player (532)
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
Is this gonna be some kind of generic glitch or improvement.
JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
It's an improvement in one specific level, and it does use glitches.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
Well, I've failed again. The improvement Upthorn found in Green Hill 2 has messed with Marble 1 and I cannot for the life of me get to that platform even close to the original time because of some bat randomness screwing things up. Someone else can deal with this. It's just a boring screen-wrap, anyway, though I have to give extreme credit to Upthorn since myself, nitsuja, xebra, and several others have tried to make the screen wrap on this level work and we all failed. So please set this back to accepted, or rejected if people feel it shouldn't be published without this improvement. Gah, what a shitty few days. The improved version up to Marble 1 is here, in case anyone wants to see it or mess with it.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
Wait what MY EYES how did he do that?!
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 804
Location: Canada
For those using GoodGen 3.00, the ROM to use for this movie is Sonic The Hedgehog (W) (REV00). (REV01) will desync. Awesome movie. I remember how long it was before there was a really good Sonic 1 movie. It's great to see it played really well.
TASing or playing back a DOS game? Make sure your files match the archive at RGB Classic Games.
nfq
Player (93)
Joined: 5/10/2005
Posts: 1204
when you make the avi use the amy hack, it's cuter and the sky on marble is made of fire: http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/6985/sonicamyhack001ss2.gif
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User, Experienced player (532)
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
So how is that death avoided in GH2, is it because no input is pressed for the first half of the trick. I don't see the point in dropping it if it indeed saves roughly 4 seconds as opposed to saving 2 seconds in Marble 1. As far as I remember the only random thing in the game is the bats.
JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
The trick makes Sonic level-wrap. What usually kills him is that in the middle of the level, the lower boundary is higher than normal and Sonic has nowhere to climb to stay high enough, and so he touches the bottom of the screen. By running into the S-curve backwards with a very specific position / velocity, you can stay high enough to barely escape the bottom of the screen. Levels where randomness can affect syncing include at least all of Marble Zone, Labyrinth 3, Scrap Brain 1 and 2, and possibly more. I don't want to improve one part just to screw up another. In this case, I like Marble 1's improvement a lot more than screen-wrapping in Green Hill 2, regardless of it being faster overall. (Also, it would help me if you ended questions with a question mark (?), because sometimes I can't follow what you're asking and what you're stating when you end them all with commas or periods.)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Player (104)
Joined: 6/7/2005
Posts: 290
Location: New York
I voted yes, it's interesting to see that some bugs are still there, probably from Sega mixed with the fact that you have advanced abilities in an area that wasn't meant for those abilities. :P
Soft Blue Dragon
upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (388)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
JXQ wrote:
The improvement Upthorn found in Green Hill 2 has messed with Marble 1 and I cannot for the life of me get to that platform even close to the original time because of some bat randomness screwing things up.
I have a couple suggestions about that. 1) If you pause the game for a few frames before those bats load, you might be able to get them to sync. 2) I have a hex edited version where it's only the bat that hits you which has desynced. If you make a short jump for the added accelleration, you might get a more favorable landing spot from the hit.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
nfq
Player (93)
Joined: 5/10/2005
Posts: 1204
JXQ wrote:
(Also, it would help me if you ended questions with a question mark (?), because sometimes I can't follow what you're asking and what you're stating when you end them all with commas or periods.)
weird, i can always follow him Perfectly.
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 14882
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [783] Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog by JXQ in 18:17.48
Joined: 6/8/2005
Posts: 236
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Anon wrote:
WHAT DO YOU MEAN
That boy needs therapy But seriously, I enjoyed every second of it. I'm not a TASer, so it's not like I can give you a critical analysis like all these other guys can. But I do like to watch these for entertainment. Gonna go back and watch this baby at a slower speed :) Once again, thank you for your contributions, as well as to the others who'd helped you achieve this significant improvement. (To me, shaving off over 10 seconds from a game that doesn't take a very long time to beat is significant in itself.)
Active player (441)
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 940
Location: Toronto, Canada
Hmm... JXQ, what are these "retarted baby seals" you speak of? btw, awesome run! Haven't watched the Knux one yet because it keeps desynching on me...but I'll wait for the AVI if (and when) it comes out.
My current project: Something mysterious (oooooh!) My username is all lower-case letters. Please get it right :(
upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (388)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
theenglishman wrote:
Hmm... JXQ, what are these "retarted baby seals" you speak of?
You know the little animals that come out of the capsules at the end of each zone?
theenglishman wrote:
btw, awesome run! Haven't watched the Knux one yet because it keeps desynching on me...but I'll wait for the AVI if (and when) it comes out.
You probably have the wrong version of the ROM, check the submission text to make sure you have the correct version.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User, Experienced player (532)
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
theenglishman wrote:
Hmm... JXQ, what are these "retarted baby seals" you speak of? btw, awesome run! Haven't watched the Knux one yet because it keeps desynching on me...but I'll wait for the AVI if (and when) it comes out.
These retarded baby seals cause up to about 30-40 frames of lag after you defeat Robotnik. Out of Interest JXQ, is that improvement on GH3 just a reduced lag after the animals leave the screen, is it any faster than my version.