Post by Bisqwit

Posted: 3/12/2007 3:06 PM

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meepers

Player (34)

Joined: 12/18/2005
Posts: 250

Enjoyed the WIP thoroughly. Keep it up! \o/ During the Pirate's area, was the repeated dropping of bombs to create an imaginary platform allowing you to get to that one spot? Or what? I wasn't quite sure how you pulled it off. :E

我々を待ち受けなさい。

Posted: 3/12/2007 3:11 PM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

mwl -- That shouldn't be a problem. It'll be around about that time anyway. Vidar -- Yeah, that's pretty much the right idea. It's bomb hovering. It starts off with the infinite sword glitch (when I stab a bomb and interupt it by picking it up) which makes the game think Link's sword is still 'on' so to speak and any damage taken whilst in this mode causes Link to hover (as long as the shield is up).

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 3/12/2007 7:05 PM

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mwl

Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636

Mukki wrote:

mwl -- That shouldn't be a problem. It'll be around about that time anyway.

You talk to Mikau at around 3 p.m., and you enter the inner courtyard of the fortress at nearly 5 p.m. So that's about two minutes of gameplay to redo, including the bomb hovers.

Posted: 3/12/2007 9:26 PM

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peteyboo

Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 8

mwl wrote:

You talk to Mikau at around 3 p.m., and you enter the inner courtyard of the fortress at nearly 5 p.m. So that's about two minutes of gameplay to redo, including the bomb hovers.

Which, as Swordless Link suggested, isn't necessary, since no one else seems to have acknowledged him.

Posted: 3/13/2007 3:11 AM

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petrie911

Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635

I believe mwl was implying that, since that isn't necessary, that's where he needs to start the redo from.

Posted: 3/13/2007 4:03 AM
(Edited: 3/13/2007 6:47 AM)

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mwl

Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636

petrie911 wrote:

I believe mwl was implying that, since that isn't necessary, that's where he needs to start the redo from.

Indeed I was. Sorry for the ambiguity. I should have used the past tense. Page glitch. Bisqwit, if you're reading, please...

UPDATE `phpbb_topics` SET `topic_replies` = `topic_replies` - 1, `topic_title` = 'Majora\'s Mask' WHERE `topic_id` = 267;

EDIT: bkDJ, the page glitch happens here, too. Petrie's latest message didn't appear in the topic until I replied to reveal his post. This happens every time a new page is generated because the internal reply count is off by one.

Posted: 3/13/2007 5:21 AM

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bkDJ

Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215

^^^^ Oh dear. silly phpbb.

Posted: 3/13/2007 12:16 PM

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JXQ

Experienced player (750)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

Of all things to get OCD over...an apostrophe?

mwl wrote:

Sigh.

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 3/26/2007 12:47 PM

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Mitjitsu

He/Him

Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

Any progress lately, are you still on the lullabye skip, which as I've stated before as probally the hardest trick in the game to optimize and do. or are you redoing it from the Mikau speech, although it wouldn't hurt to try a hex edit once you enter the Fortress since the pirates are always setup in the same way, although you may encounter a desync on the way up to Snowhead.

Posted: 3/26/2007 2:04 PM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

As of now I've just shot the wasp hive and am about to enter the room below. I've been pretty busy recently so I haven't got much done and I'm pretty busy for the rest of this week. I changed a few things here and there since the Mikau speech which meant that I had to fully redo. Also, I experienced a few desyncs in Pirate's Fortress which pissed me off as it resulted in doing the bomb hovers three times. I'll post a video of the lullabye skip and a full WIP after Snowhead Temple. Depending on how much overtime I 'm offered I should have a good bit of spare time over Easter in which to accomplish this.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 4/14/2007 2:45 PM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

Update - The redo is complete. - SoH played earlier to save ~30 seconds - From there until Pirate's Fortress pretty much the same. Tightened up Goron Rolling and Zora diving saving probably ~ 1-2 seconds. - Pirates Fortress tightened up. Jumped over fish rather than go around them. This means that I arrived at the sentry boat ~1 second too early to jump and dive off it :( Went underneath instead. Massive desyncs in this area which made this take a lot longer than it should have. - SoDT worked in nicely. Losing some time but I shall reap the rewards of this later. - Collecting of Zora Egg faster. Never took damage. - Road to Snowhead faster/cooler. Spent a long time trying to manipulate bomb drops from every snowball, but to no avail. Could only ever do it to one and even then it rarely synced so I chose to settle for a Lullabye skip with only 16 bombs and 20 chus. Goron Lullabye skip almost done. - Goron roll to second flag. Infinite sword glitch there. It is possible to get further, but wind and rolling snowballs make life difficult. I tested thoroughly and I'm sure that there is nothing to gain from going any further. - Backwalk to hovering spot. Avoid use of an explosive by hopping around snowball. - There are two ways to reach the hovering spot. One will get you there at the beginning of a wind cycle which keeps the hovers clean and consistant. The other (which I took) gets you there halfway through the wind cycle before the one stated above. This is faster but it makes for strange use of explosives which wasn't ideal. - First part of Goron lullabye skip done with 10 bombs and 11 chus. Leaving 6 bombs and 8 chus for the second part. I'm hoping to use 4 bombs and 6 chus. This will mean that I can use chus instead of bombs when hovering in Snowhead. - As of right now I am testing the best way to do the second part of the lullabye skip. - Snowhead Temple should be pretty straight forward so I shall post a WIP after Goht. I realise that it has been a long time since my last WIP, but I am still very active on this project. I have just had my progress hindered by annoyances, and also this is one of the more difficult sections of the run. Unfortunately, I am very busy next week so this next installment probably won't be ready for another week or two at least :(

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 4/14/2007 7:57 PM

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mwl

Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636

It's nice to see some progress. Good luck on the second half of the Lullaby skip. :)

Posted: 4/16/2007 5:21 AM

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petrie911

Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635

Excellent. I can't wait for the WIP...

Posted: 4/20/2007 5:19 PM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1091)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

I am once again encountering massive technical problems. This time it is not a rogue Deku Flower but the entire second set of bomb hovers. Here is a list of the problems -- 1) Horrifyingly difficult to optimise. Different angles cause clearly different results when the wind is hit on a certain frame. This wouldn't bother me too much if it wasn't for the awesome second point... 2)...which is that this section is very very desyncy for reasons that I can't properly see. Firstly, because pretty much every key of input is within 6 frames of one another I have many save state which allegedly causes desync. Secondly, the wind causes very small variations in Link's position on screen if even one frame is dropped, but the desync doesn't usually show until much later. Neither of these would bother me greatly and are easily overcome, but this is a good one... 3) The White Boes. These cheery chaps like to get in the way of my bomb hovers, and when the explosion kills them the game lags for a few frames. Because I can't move I can't remove this lag in any way, I just have to take it. This mainly causes problems because their appearance seems to be controlled by something outwith my control. I have ran the exact same angles and exact same input on the exact same frame (I have noted the frame numbers down just to make sure), but have ended up with strikingly different results, even losing up to 20 frames in some areas. When I play back it always desyncs when the first set of Boe's appear. I am not quite out of ideas yet, but I am certainly running low. If I can't find out what is making the Boe's so random I am in trouble. 4) Also, getting the timing right with the snowball and getting to the right point in time adds to the fun. Although the other route up to the winding path is more wasteful of explosives could it perhaps still be faster? All I need is 5 to hover in Snowhead Temple, which could be picked up inside (off the top of my head I could get some in the freezard room), but whether there is a net gain of time needs to be tested. Since the real WIP could be tomorrow, two months from now or never,I have decided to just post up my blood and tears so far. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/5164/Zelda%20Majora%27s%20Mask%20TAS.m64 This contains the redo, the first set of bomb hovers and all my testing and pain of the second. It desyncs on a Boe during the second set of hovers, so you can see what I was talking about. Then I run around in a rage for a while. Enjoy!

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 4/21/2007 12:50 AM

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Mitjitsu

He/Him

Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

It certainly looked great and much improved, I can tell by the desync at the end how hard this trick really is. Perservence will get you in the end, the rest of the game should become comparably easier once you've over come this. Completing the temple will more or less be the half way point.

Posted: 4/21/2007 1:12 AM
(Edited: 4/21/2007 1:18 AM)

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Hina98

Joined: 3/15/2007
Posts: 131

I've been having desyncs here and there, at the very beginning (which is no big deal), as the deku scrub is running through town. I think it's just problems on my end, but whenever I tried to reload the rom and recording it wouldn't get rid of the sram. When I load the rom and the wip it starts the game in clock town on day one. Let me see again I'm pretty sure this is a noob question, but I've yet to be able to find a copy of the TAS input plugin 0.6. It doesn't show up on my settings page, and I think it may be related to the little desyncs I've been having. Also, is there any reason the WIP is being recorded with Jabo's 3D6 1.5.2.

Posted: 4/21/2007 1:17 AM

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laughing_gas

Former player

Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp

Hina98 wrote:

I've yet to be able to find a copy of the TAS input plugin 0.6

http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4200

Borg Collective wrote:

Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.

Posted: 4/21/2007 1:56 AM

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petrie911

Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635

Mukki wrote:

Although the other route up to the winding path is more wasteful of explosives could it perhaps still be faster? All I need is 5 to hover in Snowhead Temple, which could be picked up inside (off the top of my head I could get some in the freezard room), but whether there is a net gain of time needs to be tested.

You can get a pickup from the pots in the Freezard bridge room, or you can get it from the basement of the main room from the plants by the stairs. You could also manipulate some from a snowball or possibly a wolfos kill. The WIP looks great.

Posted: 4/21/2007 2:36 AM

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Hina98

Joined: 3/15/2007
Posts: 131

laughing_gas wrote:

Hina98 wrote:
I've yet to be able to find a copy of the TAS input plugin 0.6
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4200

thanks, do I need to configure the controls if all I'm doing is watching WIP's?

Posted: 4/21/2007 3:01 AM

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laughing_gas

Former player

Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp

Hina98 wrote:

do I need to configure the controls if all I'm doing is watching WIP's?

I don't configure the plugin even if I'm tasing.

Borg Collective wrote:

Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.

Posted: 4/21/2007 4:41 AM

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mwl

Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636

Could somebody please upload a save-state, by any chance? Thanks in advance.

Posted: 4/21/2007 4:42 AM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA

Savestates are very fragile with this game, I always just put mupen in 1000% speed and watch from the beginning to be absolutely sure that everything synchs. I didn't make any savestates when I watched the wip, so can't help you out, sorry. Fantastic segment btw.

☣ Homepage ☣ Retired

Posted: 4/21/2007 4:49 AM

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Halamantariel

Player (104)

Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 562
Location: Québec, Canada

I get a desync when he tries to enter the shop after hitting the owl statue... What happens instead of entering the shop: rolls in direction of the shop door, doesn't enter, and then do random things outside the shop. I'm using all the same plugins, and everything worked fine from the beginning up to that point. Looks like I'm going to have to refrain from watching WIPs for this N64 Zelda game too... Maybe my computer just doesn't like Zelda.

Posted: 4/21/2007 5:26 AM

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mwl

Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636

Halamantariel wrote:

I get a desync when he tries to enter the shop after hitting the owl statue... What happens instead of entering the shop: rolls in direction of the shop door, doesn't enter, and then do random things outside the shop.

Same here, even though my configuration is the same as Mukki's. This is why I asked for a savestate.