Posted: 11/2/2007 12:13 PM
(Edited: 11/10/2007 1:35 PM)
Post subject: Fatal Labyrinth
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plusminus
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Joined: 11/2/2007
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After a very long time lurking, I've decided to start participating in this community a bit, as well as trying to make TAS. The game is Fatal Labyrinth (Labyrinth of Death in Japan). It's a rogue-like game, meaning all the levels are generated more or less randomly, which I think makes it an excellent candidate for a run. There are two versions of this game. One is the regular cartridge version, the other is a less-polished version released in Japan on Sega Meganet about a year earlier. I'm planning on using the cartridge version since it's the standard release, that most people would've played, plus it's in English. But, I wanted to double check that this is OK since the Meganet version seems like it's harder. It's a bit hard to tell since I don't speak Japanese, but some things are quite obvious, like harder enemies on the first level. On the other hand you start the game with more health, so there's a trade-off. I'm playing through the Meganet version right now trying to note the differences, for curiosity's sake as much as anything. EDIT: While the Meganet version is actually harder, it's essentially like a beta of the cartridge version. Not buggy, but certainly underdeveloped. So I'm not using it.
Posted: 11/9/2007 4:16 PM
(Edited: 11/10/2007 7:19 PM)
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Joined: 11/2/2007
Posts: 100
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WIP #1, coming along reasonably well. I feel it moves fast enough to not be a boring game choice, but it occurs to me that some people might not find this game too exciting. There are 30 levels plus a boss, so I'm not quite halfway done. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1728059149/fl-wip1.gmv Play back with sound rate at 22050! About the randomization:
  • The level layout and item colouring is seeded by start time, as is everything else about the first level. This sets the layout for EVERY level that follows, nothing else will change it. Interestingly enough I start only one frame after the earliest possible moment and get a good result.
  • Combat affects everything, in different amounts depending on types of attacks and whether they hit or not.
  • The items laying around on the current level affects the items on the next level, although it's a bit inconsistent.
  • The start position is affected by a bunch of things, mostly combat but it's possible to attack an enemy from a distance without changing the start position of the next level.
  • Combat results seem to vary with each turn, to a certain extent. Still not based on anything realtime.
  • Except, getting confused ("You feel like dancing") randomizes EVERYTHING except the level layout by time, including where you move to with a directional press.
Posted: 11/9/2007 8:36 PM
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ventuz
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I'd like to see a finished run. I thought about doing one myself as well but I don't have patent to deal with randomized dungeon (by getting the shortest length to stair). I tried to see your run, uhh: it's completely desync for me. It's either you're using really old emu or wrong kind of rom. What it looked like was you hit green slime once and ran south into corner, get surrounded by 2 red centipede and green slime. I tried japan version as well, you were just getting stuck on walls.
Posted: 11/9/2007 11:03 PM
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plusminus
Player (64)
Joined: 11/2/2007
Posts: 100
Location: Toronto, Canada
Hmm, that's not good. I'm using the svn version of Linux Gens (Grrl) from this site, it seems to play back other movies OK. I'm away from home for the weekend, I'll have to check it more when I get back. Have you got both controllers set to 3-button?
Posted: 11/10/2007 2:44 AM
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ventuz
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GRRL? I guess I can't see it from Windows.
Posted: 11/10/2007 4:35 AM
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IdeaMagnate
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There are no differences between Grrl and Upthorn's Gens that should cause desyncs. If you find otherwise, please post about it, preferably including a gmv.
ideamagnate| .seen aqfaq <nothing happens> DK64_MASTER| .seen nesvideoagent * DK64_MASTER slaps forehead
Posted: 11/10/2007 8:35 AM
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upthorn
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I'd guess the GMV is for the meganet version and ventuz was watching on the cartridge version?
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Posted: 11/10/2007 9:41 AM
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ventuz
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I don't know what the heck is this whole "meganet" thing is, I looked up the wiki and it says it's a Sega network service thing, but it didn't list anything about Fatal Labyrinth. And I just want to clear thing up: First post say just "checking out" meganet version. Not TASing it, am I right? Second post added a WIP but not state what rom is it on but I was assuming it was English version because of "fl" in the filename. But the movie desync in both 9.0z and 9.5b gens, and in both English and Japanese rom. I only see 1 "W" rom for Fatal Labyrinth (along with bad and overdump rom's), and 1 "J" rom for Labyrinth of Death. Are you using different rom label?
Posted: 11/10/2007 12:53 PM
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plusminus
Player (64)
Joined: 11/2/2007
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Location: Toronto, Canada
It's not the Meganet version. I should've clarified that, sorry. The Meganet version is essentially a beta of the cartridge version. I don't remember the exact ROM name I was using, but I believe it was Fatal Labyrinth (JU) [!].bin. Maybe this is from an older Goodgen set and isn't a [!] ROM in the current set for whatever reason? I'm on a Windows machine right now, I'll try downloading Gens 9.5 and finding a working ROM, then running it through the current Goodgen, sometime later today...
Posted: 11/10/2007 1:14 PM
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Player (64)
Joined: 11/2/2007
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I think I found the problem: try setting your sample rate to 22050 Hz. Unfortunately, this probably means I need to start over. I thought I remembered once reading rules saying that sound needs to be set at the highest quality possible. Right now I can't find anything about sample rates, though. Is it still possible to continue with this movie? When playing Gens on Linux normally (not with grrl) I found that the sound actually emulated better at a rate of 22 kHz, I must have forgotten to change it sometime when I copied my gens.cfg around.
Posted: 11/10/2007 2:58 PM
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ventuz
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Yeah, it worked, my bad for not checking other sound sample rate. I think it's nicely done.
Posted: 11/10/2007 5:01 PM
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Player (64)
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Great, thanks! I think it's probably OK for me to continue like this as long as I make sure to specify the sample rate in the submission text.
Posted: 11/10/2007 6:59 PM
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Aqfaq
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Are you going to use the programming error (by equipping two short bows) to gain huge defense points?
Posted: 11/10/2007 7:18 PM
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Yep, it's in the WIP movie already. :) I'm not planning on killing any monsters except the boss (i.e. no level ups), but I need to get attacked sometimes to change the RNG. This wouldn't be possible to do without that bug. Even with a bunch of armour I'd take too much damage for the health you start with.
Posted: 11/10/2007 7:36 PM
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Aqfaq
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Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
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Oh, good, I should have watched the WIP before asking. Anyway, I watched it now and it made me smile. The level layout manipulation and luck manipulation look good. Good luck for the rest of it!
Posted: 11/11/2007 11:43 PM
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ventuz
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Do you know about using "weapon strengthening" item on cursed weapon? They said it hit most of monster in 1 or 2 hits, I haven't look into it myself yet.
Posted: 11/12/2007 4:32 AM
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Player (64)
Joined: 11/2/2007
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Location: Toronto, Canada
Yeah, thanks. That's all in the guide at GameFAQs. The hard part will be actually getting a Weapon Power-up scroll and a cursed weapon in an optimal position. Even then I probably won't kill any regular monsters since the bow is better at manipulating luck (attacking from a distance) and using the menu isn't particularily fast.