Yeah, I know it's only one level, but I do a lot of neat stuff in it. In this level, you have to water the sprouts for them to grow into flowers. Everyone should know by now that sprites have a certain area around them that is the point where you can make contact with them. (poorly explained again) What I discovered, (or I'm at least pretty sure) is that the sprouts' area of contact is the same as if the whole flower sprite was there. This results in me being able to leave rooms before the water blob actually hits the sprout, and have it still count. I also did some neat jumping tricks in this level.
I have supplied a state save file so you don't have to fast forward through the movie. I'm not sure if it will work though. It works for me at least.
Movie file
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1469050302/Kirby%27s%20Dream%20Land%2038765%20%28U%29.smv
State save file
http://rapidshare.com/files/69279261/Kirby_s_Dream_Land_3__U_.008.html
Also, just in case anybody cares, I made a comic about my biggest fear in making this run is. Don't worry, I'm not gonna turn this into an art thread.
"Discovered a Glitch Comic"
http://pekopon.deviantart.com/art/This-better-not-happen-69648770
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
Hey Pekopon - I just watched your WIP and I'm mostly impressed to this point (hurrah for Coo zipping around at full speed continuously). I do have a couple of comments I wanted to raise:
In 1-3 in the downward scrolling room immediately after the minigame it feels as though you could get to the door there sooner somehow. I am wondering if avoiding inhaling the enemies would help (despite how awesome that is, as I know it's darn near impossible in real time).
There are a couple of points in 1-4 where you take damage; I believe this is faster than the alternative of waiting for the enemies to move out of the way, but you should still make this clear in your notes when the run is done and you have submission text to write.
There's a point in 1-6 in the tall room where you reattach to Kine only to drop him again a few seconds later. I doubt there are any savings in time from doing this, much less enough to warrant sitting through the associated animation.
I look forward to seeing a completed run :-)
EDIT: Y0SH1/CrispyYoshi, I also watched your two-player run of 1-1. I have to admit having seen this and Pekopon's run that a 2P run has a greater potential entertainment value and would be worth pursuing. However, I also feel that having both a 1P and a 2P run would not necessarily be the best idea, given that a single player can still have Gooey around (even if he is CPU-controlled and of marginal usability) and so to not use him might be seen as an arbitrary restriction.
Hey Pekopon - I just watched your WIP and I'm mostly impressed to this point (hurrah for Coo zipping around at full speed continuously). I do have a couple of comments I wanted to raise:
In 1-3 in the downward scrolling room immediately after the minigame it feels as though you could get to the door there sooner somehow. I am wondering if avoiding inhaling the enemies would help (despite how awesome that is, as I know it's darn near impossible in real time).
There are a couple of points in 1-4 where you take damage; I believe this is faster than the alternative of waiting for the enemies to move out of the way, but you should still make this clear in your notes when the run is done and you have submission text to write.
There's a point in 1-6 in the tall room where you reattach to Kine only to drop him again a few seconds later. I doubt there are any savings in time from doing this, much less enough to warrant sitting through the associated animation.
.
First off, I'm glad to see someone else has watched my run. I thank you. Now I shall answer your questions.
#1 Yes, I probably could have gotten down there a bit quicker. Just worked out that way. Though I might have died by going too low to the bottom of the screen. It was (I think) very near as close as I could go. As for inhaling the Nruffs, It is actually much quicker to eat them rather than try to avoid them or take damage. Also, Swallowing all four at once with Coo is impossible unless you know that pressing (A) can make you swallow in the air. If you were to go against the ground to swallow, you wouldn't make it in time.
#2 Yes, I will probably mention that, though it's a given that in Tool assisted runs, you only ever take damage to save time. ;D
#3 While it is a bit clumsy looking, it is by far faster. After I get back on Kine, there are a lot of tall jumps that Kirby can't make on his own jumping ability. (maybe if he had Hi-Jump) :P
The one thing I'm disappointed with is the Mini-boss fight. It was nearly as fast as possible, but didn't look too impressive.
I'm also amazed that nobody (all 4 people following this) mentioned the Kine jumping in the last room of 1-5. I will now say that it was overall faster to jump than run on the logs. It's faster to run on the logs as Kirby, but not with Kine. One might think "Get rid of Kine then!" I need him to make his wife "Mine" Happy, (that is Kine's wife.) and he is important for the next level.
I hope you continue to follow this. It's nice to see Dream Land 3 fans. And keep in mind, I'm not doing the sub games after the game (boss butch, jump, and MG5)
Using the turbo fly would take a lot of time since Kirby would have to do his air puff and start his running again. It may look a little strange, but it's worth it. Also, I was able to get a precise spot for kirby to stoneify for the big drop a lot easier with Kine's spit. It should also be known that Kine spitting Kirby out is actually faster than his run. (only useful in certain circumstances)
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
Pekopon wrote:
[...]And keep in mind, I'm not doing the sub games after the game (boss butch, jump, and MG5)
This came up in a thread elsewhere on the forums and I am inclined to agree that this is the right thing to do - we don't need to watch you do those things twice in the same run (besides which jump can go on for quite some time if you are a perfect player!) :-)
I'm very glad you think this way. It would be boring, and it would mean a ton more work for dumb stuff. I'm having difficulty figuring out how to beat the bosses the first time. I have a planned strategy for Ado, I have a tentative plan for Acro. (I'm not sure if the way I do it would save time. It looks in favour of it, but I'm not sure) I have no plans for Pon & Con. (All of Sand Canyon is hard) And I'm pretty much stuck with needle for Dedede (You get Needle in the last level) Dark Matter and 0 are my biggest fear in this run.
World 2 complete! The Acro fight doesn't look quite as cool as my first version of it (it always desyncs on the first room of the next level the first time for some reason. then it works after that) I have supplied a save state so you don't have to zap through world 1.
Video link
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/227753032/Kirby%27s%20Dream%20Land%20thh%20%28U%29.smv
Save state link
http://rapidshare.com/files/70440612/Kirby_s_Dream_Land_3__U_.000.html
World 2 was much trickier. stage 5 was the one that gave me the most trouble, and stage 6 wasn't too fun to plan out either. Acro went really well, it was slightly faster than the first version, but less cool looking (as mentioned above) There were also two occasions were I couldn't use my "get an ability and go through a door" trick in this world for two different reasons. I did a neat trick whilst watering the flowers in the first level, and did a lot of neat jumping on and into bad guys. The scrolling screen in stage 3 wasn't that cool looking, but the one in stage 4 was much better. Captain Stitch mini boss went well too. I had to get off Kine where I did to manipulate what he was going to do for his starting attack. Also used the inhaling manipulation a lot. World 3 is going to be hard since it is the world with the most evil and awkward level designs, and that is the world that the enemy "Pteran" starts appearing. Pteran are those purple bat birds that fly on an angle. Perhaps the easiest thing to get hit by in Nintendo history.
Kine does swim fast. though he swims super fast in the rooms in stage 5 since there is a current. I had to redo this room hundreds of times so I could stay in the current the whole time.
And yes, Poor Gooey. I personally hate that character, so I don't mind killing him for fun :D
Well, the only thing I did that looked cooler in the first acro fight was after I hit him the first time, I jumped and glided down with the Parasol before hitting him. I guess it was still neat, but I liked the first one better. Though the first one was about 8 frames slower, so that's okay that I improved it.
Thanks for checking it out. That pleases me. :)
WOW. You did things I wouldn't even figure out. The guessing game on 2-3 was perfect, since where he (she?) appeared was always on one spot. Good luck on 100%ing 3-6. <_<
Pekopon wrote:
And yes, Poor Gooey. I personally hate that character, so I don't mind killing him for fun :D
*shudder* 3-6 is going to be a nightmare. It's one of the things I've been dreading the most. And if I offended you about Gooey, sorry. It's just that Gooey is my least favourite Kirby Character, (Adeline, Ribbon, Nago, and Paint Roller being my favourites) so I don't really mind what happens to him. I only really did it since there was a potion right there.
Also, it's a REALLY good thing I uploaded that file here. I replayed my video, and to my absolute horror, it had desynced at the beginning of 2-5, and all of my back ups did the same thing. I said to myself, "I'm quitting forever" But I thought, "hey, it wasn't desyncing for the people at the forums" so I downloaded that file, and it worked.
Am still recovering from minor heart attack D:
(not really)
Very nice run, not a big fan of kirby's games, but its a decent platform game, thats why im following the wips, in the fifth stage you hit a wall like 3 times, that means your speed is back to zero, try to avoid that kind of things, nice run anyway ;)
Yes well, Kine's turbo swimming seemed to make it work somehow. I'm glad to see that people are watching. Dream Land 3 is a very good platformer. It's still my favourite Kirby game. Though I think that by the time I'm finished this, I'll never want to play it again.
It also needs to be played in Snes9x 1.51.
It may be a long time. I hope to get it finished at some point. Not by the end of this year though. Sand Canyon is going to be tough. I Checked to see if a certain trick I did with Nago worked with Chu Chu, and it does. This will save me lots of time in 3-5.
*edit* just thought I'd mention, I had to redo the second part of Acro so I keep Parasol. I need it for sand canyon.
Wow, I love Kirby and I love this game...
I heard that it was not good for TAsing but still was hoping that someone would do it.
Now looking to your run I'm convinced that this person was wrong and that your run is really good...
Cheer up and good luck !
Thanks for cheering me on! I hadn't worked on this for quite a while. I've been trying to find shortcuts and tricks for the GBA game "Drill Dozer" I don't think I'll run that, but I'm finding tricks in case the guy working on it starts up again.
I know it's only one level, but it's a neat one. Sand Canyon level 1 complete. There is a save state supplied that starts at the beginning of the Acro Fight.
Movie file
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/804940073/Copy%20%284%29%20of%20Kirby%27s%20Dream%20Land%20thh%20%28U%29.smv
Save state file
http://rapidshare.com/files/71356032/Kirby_s_Dream_Land_3__U_.008.html
I'm really not looking forward to anything after this until cloudy park level 2. (that's my favourite level) The Ado fight should be cool if things go according to plan. No idea what I'm gonna do at Pon and Con.
Just saying that I'm looking forward to this video -- I can't watch the WIPs, so I'll be given a nice surprise later...
Anyways, I've done some thinking about 5-6 & Dedede. In that level, you can easily choose any partner to use, and since you're going for 100%, you've got little choice on the powers to beat the minibosses. You end up having to fight with all 8 except for Ice, and Needle is used for Dedede (who has a lot more health than the minibosses). There are 4 ways to do this:
1) Use Chuchu
- 3 of the 6 fights will have a 150% strong power, and 2 more will be 200% (make sure that Kirby temporarily hops off of Chuchu for parasol usage).
- Kirby tackles Dedede solo with Needle. (150% strength)
2) Use Rick
- only 1 of the fights has 150% power, and 1 more of the 6 has 200%.
- But then you have Rick + Needle (200% strength) for Dedede, who has a lot of HP.
3) Use any 200% strength power for all the fights
- This would require Gooey to grab and hold onto the correct powers for each feather.
- With Gooey present, your attacks do slightly less damage, so you'll need to hit one or more times.
4) Use Coo
- You've got 150% for 2 of the six fights, and Kirby also has to dismount from Coo for Parasol and Electric.
- Plus, you've only got 150% for Dedede.
- But, you've got Coo's faster movement for the between-fight areas....
It would seem to me that #3 would be best -- the 200% power used would depend on which power you have at/near the end of 5-5 -- any of Stone, Parasol, Needle, or Broom would do.
Note that Coo's fast movement might make option 4 faster, though.... I hope not, though, as you're already going to be using him a lot.
Wow! You know I hadn't given this level any thought yet. I've been too worried with all the crap in Sand Canyon. These instructions are VERY useful. I thank you very very much. Though You may have gotten a bit mixed up. You do fight the ice guy. Since there is no mini-boss for SPARK (Sorry. It's a pet peeve of mine.) or Cutter, you just swallow Sparky and Sir Kibble.
As I've said before this is a one player run, so any strategy involving Gooey is automatically shot. I think out of the other three choices, Chu Chu would be my best option. Thanks again! I'm amazed you went through the time to figure this stuff out. Though I think certain abilities are weaker on certain mini-bosses.
Wow. It's been quite a while since I've been here. Bet people forgot about this.
Well it's been like, 4 months since I worked on this. Needed a break ya know? So yeah, it's not much, but just to let you know I haven't totally given up on this yet, here is Sand Canyon Stage 2. Remember, Dream Land 3 needs to be run on Snesx9 v 1. 51 due to transparency issues with other versions. There is a save state file that starts near the end of Sand Canyon Stage 1.
Sav file
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1514320545/Copy%20%2816%29%20of%20Kirby%27s%20Dream%20Land%20thh%20%28U%29.smv
Save state file
http://rapidshare.com/files/94941519/Kirby_s_Dream_Land_3__U_.008.html
I wonder if anybody even cares about this project anymore? Or if they even knew in the first place? Or if they even Remember it ever existed? Oh well.
The desync problems really effect my performance though. Since I usually have to do either the last room of a stage, or the first room of a stage a second time, I tend to gain some frames. So yeah. Might work on this some more before I quit for another month :P
Joined: 6/21/2006
Posts: 402
Location: Japan, Nagoya
Why don't you work with 1.51 improvement™? :)
http://tasvideos.org/forum/t/6573
I guess this should solve your problem. If not, please inform me.
Pekopon wrote:
I wonder if anybody even cares about this project anymore?
Personally, I have been looking forward to KDL3 TAS.
Wow! a new version!
Will this solve some of my desync problems?
Umm.. Can you tell me which specific things to download? there is a lot of stuff there, and I'm not sure what I need.
Also, would I have to redo the whole run? or can I continue with the file I have. Because there is no way I'm redoing the whole thing.
I also see the term "beta" in there. I think I might wait until the bugs are worked out.
Joined: 6/21/2006
Posts: 402
Location: Japan, Nagoya
You will need only win32 binaries. As you said, beta version may have introduced new bugs (In fact, I made mistakes frequently!), but I believe current latest version (1.51 v2 beta4) is reliable.
Movie timing is not changed at all, so you can continue your work, but do not load a old snapshot when you continue the work. You need to recreate a savestate with new version.
Note: Official 1.51 cannot handle new savestate.
