I had a fairly interesting idea today. A huge problem with speed running is that there are only few games that are optimal for it. So why don't we try creating our own games we can make speed runs for? We could, of course, embed rerecording as a feature of the game.
I think the main features a game needs to have to make cool speed runs possible are:
Slowly rising difficulty
Huge amount of freedom
Some diversity between stages
A relatively speedy main character
No unskipable significant slowdowns of action
Decent amount of non-game threatening bugs/glitches
No glitch makes all other glitches useless (like skipping to the last boss)
Different power ups with advantages and disadvantages in terms of speed
I know it would mean lots and lots of work. But I'm sure we can do it if enough people are interested. I, myself, am not so good at coding, but maybe I could at least help by providing some ideas. :/
Another problem would be that we'd maybe have the fastest route already in mind when designing the levels. And we'd maybe change the levels later on to make faster routes possible. I don't know if this problem is solveable at all. Maybe by forming teams?
Probably the best kind of game to do would be a platformer.
If nobody cares about good graphics (or someone can supply graphics) I wouldn't mind making a platformer based on community design specs to practice my programming skill. It'd be nice to see a lot of brainstorming as to interface, abilities of the character, the kinds of levels that should be possible, and the like. I'd probably code it in Python with an easy (external) map editor (that produces XML files) so it can be extended by even people who can't program, but without a solid game engine (which means good physics, good abilities for a character, and good kinds of things to be in the game) even good maps are useless.
So, no promises, but I've been wanting to try making a platformer for a while, and it's not actually that hard. Ideas?
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Hm, yea, a platformer would be cool.
It think it should be non-linear with complex maps like Metroid or maybe you could select the order of the stages like in Mega Man.
We could also include a move list system like in fighting games or weapon switching like in Mega Man to make a wide range of
attacks possible for the main character. Maybe both.
There should also be a reason not to use the same attack over and over again. Maybe by having the character use up ammo or
energy or maybe the need to use a different attack to cancel the lag of the first. Maybe both.
The downside of having many different attacks is of course more work, especially graphic wise.
Think simpler. "how should the character move?" "what kinds of challenges does the player face?" Things like whether the map will be in discrete levels or in one large map doesn't really matter at the basic level of design that I'd like to prototype out as soon as possible.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Is this game meant to be TAS'd, or just for friendly speedrun competitions? If it's the former, it'll probably have to be VBA since there's dev kits available for it which would make programming easy. Python's a great language, but I don't think it can be safely TAS'd short of DosBOX with a copy that runs in pure DOS.
Python's a great language, but I don't think it can be safely TAS'd short of DosBOX with a copy that runs in pure DOS.
....if I'm making the whole game engine, it'll be frame-based already. It's not hard to go from frame-based to being careful about how I get random numbers (or not having anything random) and then having recording / frame advance built in from the beginning.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Probably not nearly as cool (but a lot more possible) is making a hack of an existing game, which is designed while keeping it mind it should look as cool as possible for a TAS.
He should move by using different attacks or by running. x_x
But I get what you mean. To answer your questions we would basically already need to know who the main character is and what his and his enemies' basic abilities are. Maybe we could use some lame Touhou character. ;) Or how about Bisqwit being the main character? A walking biscuit/cookie. XD
Edit: If the biscuit is round, it could also be able to roll, maybe after receiving a power up.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I believe there are some good tools available if someone wants to do a Mega Man hack that is made entirely for the purpose of making a good TAS. It will most likely be a whole lot easier to make a good ROM hack than making a completely new game from scratch.
The problem with rom hacks is that it's hard to get anything totally fresh and new into the game, isn't it? Like, the bosses would need to stay the same and so on.
One very important thing to remember when making a speedrun-friendly game is to make multiple routes without making any of them obviously faster than the other. The same is true for character's abilities: several of them should provide decent traveling speed in various conditions, but one of them shouldn't be used for that in absolute majority of the time. Sonic Advance games are a good example of that. The competition and optimization happen only when no ideal path is known, and one thing can be sacrificed to do the other.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
The only way of speedrunning your own game
would be creating a Hack OR make a game with
programs like RPG Maker'n'stuff...
btw.
TAS'ing/Speedrunning RPG Maker games...
Another great idea xD
Good point @ moozooh. That way not even the developer of the game knows the fastest path.
...
An idea that's maybe stupid...
Bisqwit (a biscuit) wants to prove he is the best video game character of them all. To achieve that, he starts a journey to defeat all of the other well known characters, they'd be the bosses. His huge advantages over all other characters include the power of slow down/frame advance and rerecording/save states. After defeating a character, he receives some (or exactly one) of their abilities.
The downside would be that it would make the game very complex and it would maybe never get finished. The good thing would be that we could rip graphics of other games. Imo, the idea is cool, but it maybe goes a step too far. I still had to post it though. xD
Edit: Maybe Bisqwit would need a certain time to recover after using frame advance or a save state before he can do it again. Idk yet if this would be a good idea though.
Joined: 6/4/2006
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Location: Everywhere including nowhere
Kuwaga wrote:
Edit: Maybe Bisqwit would need a certain time to recover after using frame advance or a save state before he can do it again. Idk yet if this would be a good idea though.
That wouldn't work for frame advance (it doesn't matter if there's a wait time for frame-advancing if he's frame-advancing). It would definitely work for a slow-down ability though...
Bisqwit (a biscuit) wants to prove he is the best video game character of them all. To achieve that, he starts a journey to defeat all of the other well known characters, they'd be the bosses. His huge advantages over all other characters include the power of slow down/frame advance and rerecording/save states. After defeating a character, he receives some (or exactly one) of their abilities.
Copyright infringement FTW. ;)
FWIW, here's my idea:
A 3D game written with SDL+GL as APIs, in C++. Think of what you'd get if you crossed Super Mario 64 with River City Ransom: a great physics engine, a shopping/upgrades system, and some intensely cool fighting.
The design would take into account that the player has superhuman reflexes, and can see well into the future. IE, instead of "acro circus" you'd have some ability that is impossible to control in realtime.
In fact, knowing that people would be TASing it, I'd lean toward designing it as an interactive or "dynamically choreographed" action movie rather than a normal game. There would be plenty of room to strategize and experiment to find the best ways of doing things, but the camera controls would be a lot more flexible than what we're used to.
That wouldn't work for frame advance (it doesn't matter if there's a wait time for frame-advancing if he's frame-advancing). It would definitely work for a slow-down ability though...
It would work for frame advance if we limit how long it can can be used in real time or by limiting the amount of frames you can advance through until you have to recharge.
Nice character art btw, lol. He looks kind of creepy though. :p
I thought it was funky ^_^ Still trying to work out how to put in some legs.
