Joined: 12/25/2007
Posts: 86
Location: Muhos, Finland
I have this game for nes, (and also 11 years ago when I was kid) and this game are like karate kid, short game basted on movie. Litle problem are, that when you throw that.. thing what looks like ball and when you run, ball and hudson hawks speed are SAME, so you need idle like 3 ? frames (I not sure) if you not wand to fly ~3cm away from enemy... Heres my wip part 1: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/130485340/Hudson%20Hawk%20%28U%29.fcm Re-records: 210 Frames: 3455 Part2: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1105559067/Hudson%20Hawk%20%28U%29p2.fcm Re-records: 276 Frames: 7678 total re-records: 486 Total frames: 11133 Also I used death as shortcut. Ending of that horrible game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QikinidKAnI And werid bug in level 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmKspGxNbSU
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Chamale
He/Him
Player (181)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1353
Location: Canada
Sorry, I don't understand what's odd about the bug. Could you explain please?
Joined: 12/25/2007
Posts: 86
Location: Muhos, Finland
Chamale wrote:
Sorry, I don't understand what's odd about the bug. Could you explain please?
When jumping that "somke" thing, and when when you hear death miusic, hold turbo a botton, and game thiks that you are death, but you not, so nothing cannot kill you, except that thing (on youtube video) 00:41, also you cannot complete level, until you kill yourself (on game, not real life :p ) .
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Joined: 12/25/2007
Posts: 86
Location: Muhos, Finland
Heres better level 1: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/539867026/Hudson%20Hawk%29.fcm And now level 2; but I think I need to redone it, becaus it have's two or three litle mistakes >:( : http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/634009992/Hudson%20Hawk%20%28U%29%20p3.fcm So I do level 2 later, and now I think rotuewhatever on last level, yes, this game haves only 3 fu**** levels, so its shorten than karate kid (if I sure, its having four levels) .... But now I have to go sleep >:( -> .
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Joined: 12/25/2007
Posts: 86
Location: Muhos, Finland
W00t triple post!11111 Now I finaly have done level 3, this game is pain to do TAS :f http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/711244051/Hudson%20Hawk%20%28U%29p3.fcm Level 3, and quess what, it is last level of whole game, theres no last boos (wtf?) and not even "the end" screen, so game ends after high-score sceen (my score was 19957) , so game was pretty short (also I doed some mistakes at level3, so I need redo it again :l) Level 3 Re-records: 706 Frames: 7679 total Re-records: 1700 (wow) total Frames: 30551 Now todo list: 1. Test it is faster using play-as-death bug or whithout (at level2) 2. Then redo level 2 3. Then redo level 3 4. Download that tas-editor and put videos thotegear (also learn more engilsh too, and buy new keyboard (lol)) 5. Be happy And then I throw my copy of hudson hawk to hell Also feedback is good thing ;).
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Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Please change your signature. Large graphical sigs aren't allowed here.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Joined: 12/25/2007
Posts: 86
Location: Muhos, Finland
mmbossman wrote:
Please change your signature. Large graphical sigs aren't allowed here.
hhm ok, what size them I should use?
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Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
L337 wrote:
mmbossman wrote:
Please change your signature. Large graphical sigs aren't allowed here.
hhm ok, what size them I should use?
Graphial signatures aren't actually allowed at all. Please read the rules if you haven't done so yet.
Joined: 12/25/2007
Posts: 86
Location: Muhos, Finland
Guybrush wrote:
L337 wrote:
mmbossman wrote:
Please change your signature. Large graphical sigs aren't allowed here.
hhm ok, what size them I should use?
Graphial signatures aren't actually allowed at all. Please read the rules if you haven't done so yet.
I have read'ed rules but I didn't remember that :D . Also feedback of last WIP plz.
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Joined: 12/25/2007
Posts: 86
Location: Muhos, Finland
I redoed level 1 becaus I found some ways to make it more faster: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1392752352/Hudson%20Hawk%20better%20tas1.fcm Re-records: 457 frames: 10907 aslo I think that I redo levels 2 and 3 too :\. Also any help will help (and feedback too)
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Joined: 12/25/2007
Posts: 86
Location: Muhos, Finland
Now level two completed; http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1998029187/Hudson%20Hawk%20better%20tas%202.fcm Re-records: 597 Frames: 11222 (:D) ÉDIT: This "version" dont use "play as death" bug/glith, I not chek'd it is faster using that glith than not :\ EDIT: its 'about ~10sec faster when not using EDIT: that better version of level 1 run is ~1sec faster. Feedback?
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nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
sorry I didn't watch the wip, just wanted to comment something: Nobody said this yet because you didn't ask, but I'll go ahead and tell you that this game is pretty bad. I had already tried it before and I see no reason to watch it, but if you're confident that it is going to make an entertaining movie go ahead, but the game isn't popular and is bad, so it'll be hard to get feedback
Joined: 12/25/2007
Posts: 86
Location: Muhos, Finland
FODA wrote:
sorry I didn't watch the wip, just wanted to comment something: Nobody said this yet because you didn't ask, but I'll go ahead and tell you that this game is pretty bad. I had already tried it before and I see no reason to watch it, but if you're confident that it is going to make an entertaining movie go ahead, but the game isn't popular and is bad, so it'll be hard to get feedback
I know that, but all "good" games what I know are already tas'd :(.
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Joined: 12/25/2007
Posts: 86
Location: Muhos, Finland
Finaly, I remaked level 3... I tryed put levels 1 - 3 together, but it comes messed up at level 3.. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/501814893/Hudson%20hawk%20TAS.fcm And heres link to level 3: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/784183286/Hudson%20Hawk%20%20better%20tas%203.fcm I think it got messed up becaus I lost my all save states due windows xp reinstall, so any ideas to get it work? EDIT: I almost got it work, I edit on TAS movie editor that level 3 starst 2 rames earlym so it almost worked, but on halfway of level 3 it comes again messed up...
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Joined: 4/1/2011
Posts: 12
Holy crap has it really been seven years? ._. I recently got urge todo TAS and deiced to pick this again, and apparently someone has done RTA run recently, and found nice glitch that allows to jump slightly higher which is useful, but it has limited uses(even in TAS, I tested it just about everywhere with no success, just same areas that are already pointed out in SDA thread, but I think I found better route in very last room/puzzle in last level) but it should save some time, especially in final room/puzzle and in few random locations, so huge thanks to WhiteHat94 and ktwo for that :). Anyhow I made WIP: Bizhawk bk2 Youtube Random stuff I found: -On floor tiles that causes alarm to go off, you can do frame perfect jump to not take damage and alarm doesn't go off. -On places where you have to crawl, you can chain frame-perfect jumps to go a lot faster(might not work everywhere, but saves time in first level at least). I also found some useful RAM addresses, and found out that health isn't just 8 hearts, but it rather ranges from FF (full health/8 hearts) to 00 (death) and any tiles/things that causes alarm to go off (and few enemies that don't bump player around and few other enemies that go off-screen after killing them) gradually decreases health down by little(not that noticeable if you check in-game health meter) if player touches them. Its bit weird but its important to know as health only restores by dying(beating level doesn't restore health) so its important to manage health to some degree, as there isnt really any way to die on later levels without wasting time due them being linear. 00F3 = health (FF by default). 00F2 = Lives (5 by default, after using continue 3). 00F9 = Continues (3 by default).
Joined: 4/1/2011
Posts: 12
132 frame improvement Seems like when standing still, holding right/left and A on first possible frame is few frames faster than just holding left/right so that should save few frames. I also found few more RAM addresses: 02B5 Alarm timer, goes from E9 to 0 every frame when alarm is on, useless outside of first level. 006E Player Acceleration(? dunno what to call it) Basically when player starts to move, Hudson first walks slowly for around second and then goes to full speed, so 00 = not moving, 01 = slow, 02 = full speed 002A & 005D I think these are X and Y positions but Im not sure
Joined: 4/1/2011
Posts: 12
Rest of level 1 + first part of level2 Youtube of last wip+above in same video I found another use for the crawl-jump thing, those tiny blue/cyan blocks has terrible collision-box so it was annoying to pull off(they force player into crawl mode but you can cancel it by holding UP, but it still forces players accel to 1, but there is 1-2 frame window where it goes to 2, which allows me todo the crawl-jump thingy). Not much to say about the rest, other than in last part those white things are required to collect(all they do is increase score which does absolutely nothing) in order to beat the level. Their location is always the same and new ones appear as soon as old ones moves out of the screen, after last is collected and goes off-screen, painting starts to flash and after you hit it(it has to flash, otherwise hitting the painting it does nothing) level is over. zzz. Double-jump glitch makes first part of level2 much faster and less time wasted dealing with enemies, blocks and running back-and-forth. Too bad that last ladder is impossible to reach with the double-jump glitch(I tired it in different positions multiple times but no success :l ) but getting the block is not that slow.
Joined: 4/1/2011
Posts: 12
Wip3, Rest of level2 Two previous wips+wip3 in same yt video Level2 sure was annoying, and of course two of the most annoying enemies appears most in this level(you have to stun them first with the ball and then b**** slap punch them), also that random red ball is also annoying one(it cannot be killed and Hudson takes 10 damage on direct hit, and less when running through it when it spawns) as it can kill Hudson in few(2-3) hits and there is few places elsewhere where taking damage is faster, so in areas with red ball I had to waste few frames to manipulate the red ball to go around Hudson instead of hitting him, if that makes sense. Other than that its pretty straightforward and annoying level, at least next(last one) is bit more interesting.
Joined: 4/1/2011
Posts: 12
Wip xyz Whole thing in one video, 7:16. Alright, last level done, I completely forgot how short it was, and the double-jump glitch cuts even more along with better strat for the final room(in the end I found better way to grab the crystal thing, than doing double jump under it). So in first room, after first ladder its possible to double jump straight to platform above it, which save some time. In next room there isnt anything interesting. Room after that is probably most annoying one due the all the jumping, although it doesn't look nearly as bad I though and I was able to keep accel at 1(or 2) for most part. After that is one screen ladder part, nothing interesting there, and next part is straight forward. On next part there is one ball I have to avoid(insta-kill), some easy jumps and random kangaroo(where did they get these ideas for enemies? Then again I havent watched the movie so what I know) that pushes Hudson backwards even after its falling down, so I have wait until its out of the way, and while I was it I found out that if Hudson is at max accel and punches, if you stop during the punch animation accel stays at 2, which potentially can save time elsewhere where I have to turn around but I havent tested that yet or if its faster than jumping and turning around while in-air. Anyway, and for some reason in this very specific spot game forces players accel to 1: and I found out that if I punch in that spot it cancels that for some reason(it also cancels part of the animation which isnt possible normally), I dont know why it happens, but it works. In next screen there is just another set of jumps and another random kangaroo. After that in next room theres enemy I have to kill(insta-kill due low health), and thanks to the double-jump glitch Im able to skip stupid block pushing "puzzle". Now to the final room, there normally you have to push three switches in specific order(one to disable smoke thing in top right corner, one to open ( ) thing in the middle(which is insta-kill if you touch it) and top-right corner one ends the game) and grab the crystal, but all you need todo is hit top right switch, bottom right switch and grab the crystal, apparently order doesn't matter as long as those are done, so since entrance is on top, I hit top right one first, then grab the crystal and while Im falling down I throw ball to hit the last switch required, which seems most logical and fastest way to do it. I originally did double-jump to grab the crystal, but then realized that I could just jump in-between. Im sure there are few places I could save few frames(and maybe shave second or two off), and now that I know exactly where I need health, so Im redoing this from the beginning, so if anyone has any ideas or comments or anything, feel free to comment. EDIT: I found one more ram address, 02B8 which is timer for punch, when you press B it goes from 00 to 0B, if you are on ground then Hudson does the punch, if not it just loops from 0B to 00 etc, if you release B before it reaches 0B then Hudson throws the ball. As for double-jump glitch, when timer reaches 0A and player is on ground, press A on that exact frame and Hudson does the double jump. Also 005B is correct address for the X position, I think the other one is cameras position or something.
Active player (251)
Joined: 8/10/2008
Posts: 114
Very nice to see work on a tas for this game! I just watched the full video. I have a few comments (time stamps from the youtube video): - At 3:03, is it really faster to go left and do the double-jump instead of taking out the enemy and climbing up behind him? - At 6:18, wouldn't a double-jump to the left be faster? - At 7:09 (second to last room), you stop to take out an enemy. That enemy is special and you can run straight through it without getting knocked back or losing speed. It will cost 1 or 2 health though from what I remember. These were just from top of my head. I haven't tested it out or anything (I can't get bizhawk working, so I don't think I could use your input file). It's also cool that you found several things that look useful in real time. Your solution for the last room is very elegant. I can't believe we overlooked that when whitehat and I worked on the routing.
Joined: 4/1/2011
Posts: 12
ktwo wrote:
Very nice to see work on a tas for this game! I just watched the full video. I have a few comments (time stamps from the youtube video): - At 3:03, is it really faster to go left and do the double-jump instead of taking out the enemy and climbing up behind him? - At 6:18, wouldn't a double-jump to the left be faster? - At 7:09 (second to last room), you stop to take out an enemy. That enemy is special and you can run straight through it without getting knocked back or losing speed. It will cost 1 or 2 health though from what I remember. These were just from top of my head. I haven't tested it out or anything (I can't get bizhawk working, so I don't think I could use your input file). It's also cool that you found several things that look useful in real time. Your solution for the last room is very elegant. I can't believe we overlooked that when whitehat and I worked on the routing.
Thanks! 1. To me upper route feels faster(and less enemies to deal with), but I can double check that later 2. I see what you mean, I'll test that too but it should be slightly faster 3. I know that, but at that point I literally dont have enough health left to run through it(running through it does ~12 damage) Once I have some time to work on this, I'll check those(and few other things Im aware of) and do more polished run.
Joined: 5/2/2015
Posts: 127
This is a really great run, nice to see the improvement over the old one. The only small thing I can add right now is about the red ball on stage 2. You can manipulate them by throwing a baseball, they will go after the baseball instead of you. That might leave you with enough health at the end to run through the final enemy. You'd also probably have enough health if you didn't get shot by those 2 guys towards the end of stage 1. Otherwise that was great to watch.
MESHUGGAH
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Skilled player (1916)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1353
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Good job on your efforts. However there's a few missing optimization. Didn't watched the whole thing, so I'm just gonna copy paste my old notes: - Jumping inside walls reduces your horizontal speed to zero. Walls are huge... - Jumping gives 2x speed for 1 frame (when you jump). - You can increase the speed of “laser traps” if you alarm them (striped two-colored ground or switches on the wall) Horizontal speed (speed meter trick): If you hold left or right as long as you touch the floor from air with 2.0px/f, you can wait and continue to run with 2.0px/f instantly, instead of waiting the speed meter to reach that level. This is very useful for optimizing the delays to avoid touching the laser beams. Conclusion (by watching parts of the video): - 1-1 should be 4~8 frames faster if you jump as much as you can without colliding vertically with wallls - 1-2 should be much faster if you avoid slowing down (speed meter trick above) - Always climb ropes on the last frame, always fall down on the first possible frame - Triggering the alarm can be used to shave off many seconds from waiting the camera laser traps - (1-3) There's no need to kill any enemies in the game (maybe only at the very end?), and you shouldn't do it because of slowing down dramatically. - (room of fire traps) I think you could throw that ball earlier (to the left side so it's reflects back to the right and hits the switch) - The death abuse was fkin amazing just like the 1-1 ending, I see potentials... =) - Falling (from jumping) is faster AFAIK than falling without previous Y speed (0) - Coins collecting (before dropping the picture) seems unoptimal
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Joined: 4/1/2011
Posts: 12
12 frame improvement in first selection of first level (just an quick test) New: 1218 Old: 1230 (On first frame when screen fades to black). So jumping is faster, and optimized double-jump glitch so that I can do it on first frame Hudson lands on the crate. @WhiteHat94 Im sure I did test throwing the ball and it was still in the way :\. As for shooting enemies, I did try to manipulate them but regadless what I did they always shoot first, but I wonder would dodging the bullet(by crawling which is slow, sadly its the only way) saves time so that I can take damage elsewhere. @MESHUGGAH Interesting, I'll keep these in my mind.
- (1-3) There's no need to kill any enemies in the game (maybe only at the very end?), and you shouldn't do it because of slowing down dramatically.
Problem is that health does not refill between stages or areas(and there isnt any other way to refill the health), only when you die, and sadly there is no death warps or ways to die quickly past first and only death warp in the first level. Another problem is how enemies work in this game, some pushes player around(cant run through them), which is the case before death-warp), others dont but reduces health down(one/two down while in-collision per frame), almost all enemies behave different way which why sometimes I have to either punch them, throw ball at them, stun them with ball first and then punch them etc.
Joined: 5/2/2015
Posts: 127
You can see how I manipulated the red balls in my run, I think it was fairly consistent in saving me damage. As for the gun guys, it appears to be random if they will or won't shoot. Some runs all 4 would shoot, and some runs none would shoot, and then combinations in between. I think I found it more consistent to jump all through that room, like it lessened their ability to "see" me coming if I was mostly off the ground.