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Introduction

This is my second version of SMB3 lost levels. See my previous submission for details. The patch for the lost levels, along with an explanantion and level maps, can be found here (patch to SMB3 PRG1):
http://themushroomkingdom.net/smb3_lost.shtml

Notes

  • Emulator used: FCEU 0.98.15
This version fixes ALL the overworld mistakes made in the previous run. It also plays some levels faster. The total improvement is about 15.5 seconds.

Level changes from previous run

  • Level 1: Not much change here.
  • Level 2: Fixed delay in bumping into a pipe, some improvements in water area.
  • Level 3: Not much change here.
  • Level 4: This level was done a bit faster. In my previous submission, I mentioned that the angle of a full-speed slope jump exactly equals the angle of the hills here. By jumping at a slope at that angle, I go inside the wall very slightly. Even though this trick slightly wastes time, I kept it because it looked cool.
  • Level 5: Not much change here.
  • Level 6: A bit faster. There was a slight interesting background glitch partway through the level.
  • Level 7: I think this autoscroller was more entertaining than in the previous run. This time I fireball every enemy and don't shoot any "stray" fireballs.
  • Level 8: Slightly different route, now a bit faster. In my previous submission, I said that getting the third of three matching panel cards here creates a bunch of glitch letters. This time I show what it looks like.
  • Level 9: A bit faster because I "wall-entered" the pipe.
  • Level 10: Not much change here.
  • Level 11: A bit faster.
  • Level 12: A bit faster.
  • Level 13: Not much change here.
  • Level 14: I save a bit of time by making my long jump near the top of the level later.
  • Level 15: I get a mushroom just for the heck of it.

Other comments

Suggested screenshot: glitch screen after getting three stars in Level 8.
Truncated: This is not a speedrun. There are no goals defined. It appears you try to run through some levels as fast as possible, but in others you just doodle around to show the scenery. Some levels don't end.
In short, this hack is not a good choice for a speedrun, and the technical quality isn't very good either. Rejecting.

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Posted: 4/5/2008 12:09 AM
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TASVideoAgent
They/Them
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #1921: Zowayix's NES Super Mario Bros. 3 "lost levels" in 07:22.40
Posted: 4/5/2008 12:55 AM
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Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User, Experienced player (532)
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
  • Not optimized
  • Incomplete and sketchy hack
  • Strange choices which didn't make much sense during the run
Posted: 4/5/2008 1:17 AM
(Edited: 4/5/2008 2:35 AM)
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girfanatic501
Joined: 1/27/2008
Posts: 236
Location: Somewhere
AKA wrote:
  • Incomplete and sketchy hack
This isn't a hack, this is a map made up of levels actully in the codding for Super Mario Bros. 3.
See Youtube page (GIRfanaticTAS) for all runs and stuff.
Posted: 4/5/2008 2:21 AM
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mmbossman
Experienced player (822)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
GBx TAS of 2008
girfanatic501 wrote:
AKA wrote:
  • Incomplete and sketchy hack
This isn't a hack, this is a hack
O_o EDIT: Also, hooray for edits to try to erase things ^ said.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Posted: 4/5/2008 6:14 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Skilled player (1939)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
Though I am glad that you took the time to improve the movie very much, my point that this is a hack still stands. I doubt this will be accepted. I now understand the action you did in 1-1 (although I don't agree with it). On the last submission, I mistook it as a bad mistake. Not voting.
girfanatic501 wrote:
This isn't a hack, this is a map made up of levels [actually] in the [coding] for Super Mario Bros. 3.
Because it is true that these levels exist in the coding and cannot be played with any official ROM, it requires a hack to play these levels. Then again, the situation may be comparable to hacking Knuckles into Sonic 1.
Posted: 4/5/2008 7:17 AM
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
Well it was unoptimized but I had never seen the levels before so I was entertained. I don't think this is publish-worthy, but again, it kept my interest so I'll vote meh.
Posted: 4/5/2008 1:26 PM
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Zowayix
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 489
AKA wrote:
  • Not optimized
  • Incomplete and sketchy hack
  • Strange choices which didn't make much sense during the run
  • This is pretty well optimized, much better optimized than my previous run
  • How is this hack incomplete? It is designed to show the "lost levels" exactly as they are.
  • Read my previous cancelled submission for some more details about "strange choices".
bkDJ wrote:
Well it was unoptimized but I had never seen the levels before so I was entertained. I don't think this is publish-worthy, but again, it kept my interest so I'll vote meh.
If you think this is unoptimized, please say why.
Posted: 4/5/2008 2:30 PM
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Cpadolf
Skilled player (1432)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
SNES TASer of 2009 Rookie of 2008 SNES TASer of 2008
It is unoptimized relative to the currently published SMB3 TASes (which are near perfect). Every new TAS of a game (or a game with the same engine as another game) must be as optimized (or very close to at least) as the currently most optimized published TAS of that game.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Posted: 4/5/2008 6:30 PM
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Zowayix
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 489
Why is this submission unoptimized? Please provide examples.
Posted: 4/5/2008 6:45 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Active player (277)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Well, have you watched any of the published Mario runs lately? See if you notice anything special about the way they're done.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 4/5/2008 7:22 PM
(Edited: 4/5/2008 8:25 PM)
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FractalFusion
Editor, Skilled player (1939)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
Zowayix, could you request that Bisqwit come to a decision whether this hack would be accepted if it was optimized to current standard? The rules state that you must ask permission first anyway. P.S. You should try other types of games. See List Of Ideas. Edit: Reworded to avoid "Mario"-specific language.
Posted: 4/5/2008 7:35 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
wtf no. You should "seriously" stop telling others what runs to do. It's not up to you, it's up to them.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 4/5/2008 7:39 PM
(Edited: 4/5/2008 11:34 PM)
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Raiscan
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom

<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Posted: 4/5/2008 8:12 PM
(Edited: 4/6/2008 6:09 AM)
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
Ok, examples of unoptimized areas.... Well, in the first level you do, you do not need to go as far right as you do for the camera to stop moving. Also when you go down the pipe, you run against the first pipe in the new area killing momentum. Also your swimming is inconsistent. Also I agree with Fabian. edit: oh, and the tanuki suit is on for longer than really needed, and all jumps are slower when it's on.
Posted: 4/5/2008 8:20 PM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Skilled player (1939)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
Fabian wrote:
wtf no. You should "seriously" stop telling others what runs to do. It's not up to you, it's up to them.
It's for his own good. I do not want people not to pursue a dead end if they don't know what they are doing. If he likes to TAS this hack, then OK with him.
Posted: 4/5/2008 9:51 PM
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Xkeeper
Banned User, Former player
Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850
There's nothing wrong with submitting a hack. If it isn't accepted, oh well; it's a single submission in the trash bin and others get to share their opinion instead of just one person. i.e., FractalFusion: shut up. Based on the previous submission (which was a weak 'meh'), if this is more optimized to avoid obvious mistakes, I will vote a weak 'yes'. Although, my prefrence would be a run that aims to show everything, including flying over the wall in one of the levels to show the real level end, as opposed to the bonus area, and other oddities (such as the floating coin in one) Once again, though, "tas"videos amazes me.
Perma-banned
Posted: 4/5/2008 11:45 PM
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Raiscan
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
I, for one, welcome our new self-improving TASers. The fact that this is an improvement to a run he's already submitted is enough for me to show optimism on the matter (more than most newcomers who submit here...) rather than negativity and hostility towards him. Perhaps you guys should be more welcoming and supportive of such people. Zowayix: If you intend on optimizing further, I highly recommend reading the Super Mario Bros Tricks page. If you're aiming for speed (the only thing that'll likely have a hope in hell of getting published... *sigh*) then the tricks there will be invaluble. On the other hand, if you go for an Air-like demonstration, then only optimize those bits that should be fast (like overworld and getting to interesting places), and be sure to demonstrate as much as possible of different levels / previously unused enemies. While I somehow doubt the run would be published either way (judging rules sure are strict these days), I'm sure it will entertain a fair few people on the "lets see you play something" thread, so be sure to post there at least if you haven't done already.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Posted: 4/6/2008 11:26 AM
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Zowayix
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 489
I'm more aiming for speed than an demonstration, but I sort of make more "trades speed for entertainment" things than a normal pure speed TAS would. For example:
  • Running to the right in 1-1
  • Jumps very slightly into a slope in 1-4
  • Intentionally gets three stars in 1-8 to show glitch screen
  • Slight slowdown in 1-14 to show black stuff at top of background
I guess that the first one might be too much of a "trades speed" thing, so if I decide to re-do this submission, I might take that out. If there are any suggestions on how I could improve this more, please tell me!
Posted: 4/6/2008 11:44 AM
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girfanatic501
Joined: 1/27/2008
Posts: 236
Location: Somewhere
I had made a movie of the SMB3 lost levels that take out the above, but it's in 3 seperate movies (with parts at the end that I want taken off) and I don't know how to fix it...
See Youtube page (GIRfanaticTAS) for all runs and stuff.
Posted: 4/6/2008 11:47 AM
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Baxter
Skilled player (1402)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
TAS of 2013 SNES TAS of 2013 Speedy TAS of 2007 Innovative TAS of 2007
Well, the "trades speed for entertainment" choices would make it hard to compete for this TAS. In this case, it wasn't like one little thing was done which costs a few frames, but it a lot more entertaining. In this run, all sorts of unneeded upgrades were aquired, the 5 life bonus was obtained, and in some levels, it is hard to tell what the real goal is, since it's not complete. People might argue that it's not a hack... but it is. The levels on the overworld are arranged completely arbitrary for instance (if someone else made it, it would certainly be different). But I don't think the main issue is the fact that it is a hack. If it made a really entertaining movie, I don't think many people would be bothered by the fact it was a hack. The thing is, even though these levels are indeed somewhere on the smb3 rom, and some people might be interested in seeing them... they are not suitable for making an entertaining TAS. This could be a youtube movie, for people interested in seeing how the lost levels look like, and it would do a good job at that. I'll vote no for these reasons. (On a somewhat related note: Super Mario 3 is obviously game very suitable for TASing. I think it would be great if someone made both a hack and a TAS of this game with the sole purpose of creating a great TAS.)
http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html
Posted: 4/6/2008 7:06 PM
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Xkeeper
Banned User, Former player
Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850
Baxter wrote:
Well, the "trades speed for entertainment" choices would make it hard to compete for this TAS. In this case, it wasn't like one little thing was done which costs a few frames, but it a lot more entertaining. In this run, all sorts of unneeded upgrades were aquired, the 5 life bonus was obtained, and in some levels, it is hard to tell what the real goal is, since it's not complete. People might argue that it's not a hack... but it is. The levels on the overworld are arranged completely arbitrary for instance (if someone else made it, it would certainly be different). But I don't think the main issue is the fact that it is a hack. If it made a really entertaining movie, I don't think many people would be bothered by the fact it was a hack. The thing is, even though these levels are indeed somewhere on the smb3 rom, and some people might be interested in seeing them... they are not suitable for making an entertaining TAS. This could be a youtube movie, for people interested in seeing how the lost levels look like, and it would do a good job at that. I'll vote no for these reasons. (On a somewhat related note: Super Mario 3 is obviously game very suitable for TASing. I think it would be great if someone made both a hack and a TAS of this game with the sole purpose of creating a great TAS.)
I don't see how they're arranged 'arbitrarily'. They're arranged in a way that makes the most sense given the limitations of the map; 1-5, 6-10, 11-15. I find it makes perfect sense. From the previous movie, the goals appear to be: show the most of the levels. I'm sure there are still some more things that could be done (even without watching the current one...), but even the previous one was good. The obsoletion criteria would be just as subjective as usual; "Does it remove any information about the levels, and is it more fun to watch?" I find it funny that Air got published (which is really just a demonstration of SMB1's bugs), but this (which is a demonstration of SMB3's unused levels) seems to be attracting so much debate. Again. Re: Youtube: That's why we have the "concept demos" section. I think it's an underutilized category and something like this would be perfect for it, especially if it utilized another information method such as subtitles or an expanded video with an infobox to the right (or similar methods of informing what is going on).
Perma-banned
Posted: 4/6/2008 8:07 PM
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Wockes
Joined: 5/17/2007
Posts: 393
Location: Sweden
I found this abit boring so gonna vote meh. I fail to see a good reason for this movie to get a yes vote.
"No love for the game gear"
Posted: 4/12/2008 5:26 PM
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ZeXr0
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883
It's not something that bring a lot of excitement, but I think that it's pretty fun to see some unseing stuff from Super Mario Bros 3. It's a Yes vote in the concept demo.
Xkeeper wrote:
Re: Youtube: That's why we have the "concept demos" section. I think it's an underutilized category and something like this would be perfect for it, especially if it utilized another information method such as subtitles or an expanded video with an infobox to the right (or similar methods of informing what is going on).
I totally agree with Xkeeper. There's a lot of entertaining stuff that could be put in this section.
Posted: 4/15/2008 8:54 AM
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alden
Player (120)
Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1522
I thought seeing the "levels" was cool... but this video entertained me a lot more, frankly.
I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs
Posted: 6/12/2012 6:26 PM
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TASVideosGrue
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om, nom, nom... blech, stale!