Two things I'd like to say.
In the currently posted run, the player, (I forget who) uses jet very poorly. When you use it, you can hold up for kirby to fly upwards slightly. The player flies straight, and then flies straight up to reposition himself.
Also, there is a faster way to get through the walls of star blocks in Gourmet race 3. Check out my Gourmet Race 3 run on speeddemos to see it. If this is possible on the console, it can be done in a TAS, and probably even better than how I perform it. My run is 0:42.57 on the console. Check it out
http://speeddemosarchive.com/demo.pl?KirbySuperStar_GourmetRace3_4257
In the TAS, yes it was in the 40 seconds range, (I don't think it was under 40 though) but I did not do the super jump while getting the ability, and I didn't have turbo controller for wing, and there were a few other errors that weren't as good as the TAS. This run was on the console remember, so it wasn't perfect. I'm not saying my run was faster. I'm just saying that if you used that star block feather gun trick like in my run, the TAS time could be a faster time, rather than stopping on the ground and shooting a feather like in the TAS. Also, if you don't have turbo flying, it is faster to land on that plaform near the end and jump.
Oh, and if you're wondering, the run that was up on speeddemos before my run was 0:45.?? (I don't remember what the milliseconds was, but I was very close to beating the previous run by 3 full seconds)
Quite hard to make a movie considering it can be obsolete in the making of it.
Well, I'm watching it right now and post my comments then.
Getting jet ability surprised me as the whole situation was quite laggy.
Here's my current progress: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/845494041/kss-jap-mugg-tas.smv
(It's actually to soon for a new wip but I feel like posting this.)
It seems my times in each room didn't get obsolete overall^^
Good job, though. I'll use the new movie for comparision now.
I was surprised to see that the published run, which skips much of the game (including all GCO treasures, 18 MWW abilities, and The Arena), still had 70% completion; I just thought I'd post some information I got from a GameFAQ about incrementing the completion percentage:
According to Christian Wall's Kirby's Fun Pak FAQ v1.1 (kirby_super_star_d.txt)...
Spring Breeze: 11%
Dyna and both secrets: 15%
Gourmet Race Grandprix: 6%
GCO and all treasures: 22%
Revenge of Meta-Knight: 18%
MWW and all abilities: 25%
The Arena: 3%
Using the published run, I was able to deduce the following breakdown:
Dyna Blade: 13%
finishing GCO: 6%
two abilities and one level: 2%
Two abilities and two levels: 3%
MWW and two abilities: 16%
I'm about to figure out how the secrets, abilities, and treasures affect the percentage, but here's some speculation:
Each secret in Dyna Blade adds 1%, and each level other than the last adds 3%.
Each treasure in GCO adds a percentage proportional to its value in G, with the total percentage added equal to 16*CurrentValue/9999990G rounded to the nearest integer.
Each level of MWW other than the last adds 1%, and every two abilities adds 1%, with the exception that the special level and Copy abilities together add 1%.
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
I would love to see a 100% TAS of this game, there are so many bugs and glitches that can be used to great effect. The hardest parts would probably be planning Milky Way Wishes and Arena (for MWW it's probably best to get the flame ability first, since it allows much traveling through walls).
Off topic: I've been to State College sort of recently to help my friend set up to play a basement show!
The Arena would probably be timed through real-time (i.e. frame count), which means that there is no strategy -- just use Wheelie Rider. It's only if you're trying to minimize the in-game timer displayed at the end that it gets complicated.
I wish the SMV was available.
I'm currently at the tree boss, but lost at least 10 frames on the way.
(I'm starting over due to too many possible improvements.)
Joined: 6/21/2006
Posts: 401
Location: Japan, Nagoya
After an hour of playing, I got nothing :(
According to youtube comments, the glitch seems to happen when Kirby and/or Helper has a hammer or parasol. Some of posters looked using ZSNES, so I played the game on both Snes9x 1.51 and old good ZSNES 1.42, also I used (U) ROM. I thought the game was pretty laggy before happening the glitch. It may be true, may not.
Unlike in smns72's movie, I'm not going to reset in the whole run.
I can't stand when the screen gets black all of a sudden, it feels like all the excitement is gone for a while...
In this way, we can enjoy the MilkyWayWishes credits (I'd really like to include this) because reset is banned. After the credits, the run would just go through the last remaining game mode, the Arena, quickly. The run would then be finished.
Are you guys agreeing?
edit: Almost forgot to ask...
In what order should the games be played?
After SpringBreeze and GourmetRace, should I go on with GreatCaveOffensive? Or sacrifice one frame in the selection menu to keep the traditional order and play DynaBlade, then Metaknight's Revenge first?
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I agree with mixed order, I sort of disagree with no resetting; especially considering the run is realtime goal oriented. The excitement is going to be gone for a while after boss fights even without resets; the progression to the next set of action packed playing happens quicker with resetting. I tend to enjoy the new glitchy play rather than credits. You could mark the run as having 'sacrifices time for entertainment'...
In the end it's up to you, but it'll make obsoletion of the run a potential slippery slope if someone feels the need to improve it with the majority being from resetting. I feel like it's a current feature that works that saves time and should be used.
After watching smns72's WIP, I can see why you needed to redo ;-P That level of awesome absolutely needs to be had in published form as soon as humanly possible.
I still don't see the point of doing the arena. You're just going to use the same Wheelie Rider strategy that's used throughout the rest of the run, leading to a much more anticlimatic ending to the run. Remember, entertainment is almost as (if not more) important than speed.
Unless the arena goes for in-game time rather than real-time, in which case it gets much more interesting and varied. But that would make timing hard -- real time until final hit on Marx, and then lowest arena in-game time? Might as well split them into two runs then.
If going for real time, the only real competition I can see for Wheelie Rider would be a Stone + TAC combo. Even then, the time lost from manually running to bosses like Computer Virus & Wham Bam Rock, not to mention Meta Knight's sword pickup requiring luck manipulation to get Stone after the fight, makes the race seem uneven.
I still don't see the point of doing the arena. You're just going to use the same Wheelie Rider strategy that's used throughout the rest of the run, leading to a much more anticlimatic ending to the run. Remember, entertainment is almost as (if not more) important than speed.
Unless the arena goes for in-game time rather than real-time, in which case it gets much more interesting and varied. But that would make timing hard -- real time until final hit on Marx, and then lowest arena in-game time? Might as well split them into two runs then.
If going for real time, the only real competition I can see for Wheelie Rider would be a Stone + TAC combo. Even then, the time lost from manually running to bosses like Computer Virus & Wham Bam Rock, not to mention Meta Knight's sword pickup requiring luck manipulation to get Stone after the fight, makes the race seem uneven.
Yeah, personally, I'd like to leave the Arena unplayed but that's not allowed. (I'm aiming for 100% of the game.)
It'll take some time until I'm attempting this game mode, though.
@Comicalflop:
Do you think resetting alone would justify obsoletion?
If I went for a reset-run, there would be some problems.
-> There will be some sections later in the run, where reset would also save some time. But I'm unfamiliar with the game - I never played this game on console.
-> It skips the credits (it lasts for 'only' 3 minutes)! Imo, this should be the ending of the actual run. The Arena should just be a bonus for those who want to watch!
(Why do I ask for feedback on my ideas if I keep at them anyway...)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I don't think resetting alone would be an obsoletion justification, but you wouldn't want an improvement to save lots of time mostly because of it.
About later areas of the game: I've noticed it's done at the end of boss battles, and the % completion can be checked to verify that the reset is done at the right time. But, how would it help in other areas? Maybe you should explore the game a little and see where it might help.
For my DKC2 102% run I skipped the very interesting credits seen at the end of the any%, so that I could complete the last stage and the final boss to get the secret ending. Of course, the credits were way longer in that game, but skipping them meant the run was overall faster and the secret stuff was gotten to faster.
I think it's really up to you, but my gut tells me all tools should be used to achieve the fastest time, and to be honest I'd rather see more action and less credits.
As a third option, we could go the speeddemosarchive route & make each sub-game a separate TAS/movie. Or has this already been shot down by the mods previously?
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
I'll have to agree with Comical on this one. I feel that the credits are wonderful, but don't really have a place in the TAS. I also feel that the act of resetting just as a hit registers on a boss will go very far in convincing people that it's an optimal movie. It's a technique that's extremely obvious as a time saver, and I'm sure people will appreciate it.
And, wasn't the published run beaten in less than 40 secs? At least that what I remember...
