Thank you alden!
The info in the description is hidden (or didn't display the entire msg) by default and I missed that.
The random route 0 star run was entertaining as well. Of course, stuff like this will never get published on this site, but they are fun to watch.
Yeah I wanted to watch the m64 as well and was disappointed that I didn't find it until I watched the whole thing :)
I seriously think this or something like it could/should be published. This had a lot of entertaining stuff that would never fit into a true speedrun (be it 0, 70, 120 or whatever star count).
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alden wrote:
I seriously think this or something like it could/should be published. This had a lot of entertaining stuff that would never fit into a true speedrun (be it 0, 70, 120 or whatever star count).
What exactly are its goals?
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Entertainment has been a goal of previously published runs for other games.
This run offers new exciting content not offered in other runs, so I think (EDIT:) A RUN OF THIS TYPE could qualify as submission material.
Joined: 11/11/2006
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You know as well as I do that the Judges will probably never accept this. I'm not even sure they can. Submitting runs of popular games with different goals will only result in disappointment for those involved and more anger towards the Judges (which are just doing their job).
Discussion is fine. Asking a Judge ahead of submission is fine. Clarifying things beforehand is fine. Blindly submitting random m64s/movie files will only result in bad things.
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Kirkq wrote:
Entertainment has been a goal of previously published runs for other games.
This run offers new exciting content not offered in other runs, so I think it could qualify as submission material.
There has also only been 1 (one) game that has had an "entertainment" run published along side a speed based run, and for a game like SM64, which already has 2 published runs, I see very little point in having an entertainment based run published. If one were to be, it would have to show off something incredible (which this run doesn't, [no offense to the author meant]). I fully support the initial uploading onto youtube as opposed to a formal submission.
The goal would be make an entertaining superplay that shows off tool-assisted tricks that are not practical in a speed-based run. Perhaps this one does not have "enough" entertainment but I don't see how a run like this is not "a movie of a classic console game being played extraordinarily, using an emulator as a tool to overcome human limitations such as skill and reflex," to paraphrase this site's description on the front page.
mmbossman: I can think of two examples of speed and playaround movies that are both published off the top of my head: River City Ransom (which is the one I am assuming you are referring to) and Super Mario Bros 3 (the playaround is a concept demo on a different version, but still)
This movie doesn't show off something incredible? Let's see this run done unassisted then. Just because we're all jaded after watching 10+ runs of this game doesn't mean everyone is.
And yes, I don't reasonably expect it to be published, but my opinion still stands :)
Discussion is fine. Asking a Judge ahead of submission is fine. Clarifying things beforehand is fine. Blindly submitting random m64s/movie files will only result in bad things.
I agree with this statement very much.
alden wrote:
Perhaps this one does not have "enough" entertainment but I don't see how a run like this is not "a movie of a classic console game being played extraordinarily....
I also agree with this. I would enjoy watching unique, breakable games like Mario 64 played 10 different ways rather than seeing the next 60 frame improvement.
This run showcased very interesting new tricks that cannot be applied in the speedruns, but as a whole I would agree it isn't submission material. As stated by the author it is suboptimal in DDD and BitS. What I meant was that this concept should be considered in the future, and next time I will use more than two lines of text to state my opinions =).
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alden wrote:
This movie doesn't show off something incredible? Let's see this run done unassisted then. Just because we're all jaded after watching 10+ runs of this game doesn't mean everyone is.
Just because other people haven't seen it doesn't mean that we need to publish it. Youtube exists, and serves a very good purpose.
Whether this run shows off something that can't be done unassisted is a strawman argument, because using that logic any movie that used frame precision should be considered incredible, and any run that demonstrates even the smallest competence with basic TASing skills would immediately be submission quality because it shows something that isn't possible to do unassisted.
Following your Utopian ideas would quickly lead to dozens of runs for popular games, would make the site even more disorganized, and would create much more controversy than currently exists. I love having entertaining runs on the site. But I also like being able to find the movies I like without having to sift through piles of garbage to find the genuinely good runs. You can continue to advocate a "submit everything and it might get published!" mantra, but it like Raiscan said, no good can come of it.
Certainly, we'd want to have the movie up to our quality standards. Apparently in this specific case this is not the case. However, barring that, I do think that "any run that ... shows something that isn't possible to do unassisted" could be considered within the scope of the site.
"I also like being able to find the movies I like without having to sift through piles of garbage to find the genuinely good runs"
So are you implying that you can go to any random published movie and be entertained? I doubt it. Not everyone is entertained by the same thing. More content could be feasible with more organization. We could have more movies AND make it easier to find the really super duper awesome ones... I know, that's more work, and everyone's busy.
Thanks for listening.
I love having entertaining runs on the site. But I also like being able to find the movies I like without having to sift through piles of garbage to find the genuinely good runs.
I don't think these goals are mutually exclusive, though they currently conflict with the site design. This has been discussed to death, but really what the site needs is a less-shallow heirarchy and more ways to find runs than just by the news and the by-console lists.
Edit: mucked up my BBcode.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
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alden wrote:
Certainly, we'd want to have the movie up to our quality standards. Apparently in this specific case this is not the case. However, barring that, I do think that "any run that ... shows something that isn't possible to do unassisted" could be considered within the scope of the site.
You contradicted yourself there.
Also, an interesting thing would happen as we started to accept more and more borderline runs. The perception of site standards would start to decrease, due to the increase in less than stellar material! Over the course of time (a few months to a couple years), there would be more and more movies with less and less quality, due to the decreased perception of quality from the site as a whole. "It's better than X,Y, and Z run, so it should be published" is already an often heard excuse on the workbench already.
alden wrote:
So are you implying that you can go to any random published movie and be entertained?
No. As you said, people find different things entertaining.
I am explicitly stating that the more movies we accept because a few people find them entertaining, the likelihood of any random person selecting a random movie to watch (and being entertained), would go down.
EDIT: Also, it would be great if a mod could move the last dozen or so posts to one of the many threads already discussing the need for different/more movies.
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I think that while this run was unorthodox and interesting, the need for a non-time based entertainment run heavily decreases when the current movie/s for the game are already chock full of entertaining material.
Certainly, we'd want to have the movie up to our quality standards. Apparently in this specific case this is not the case. However, barring that, I do think that "any run that ... shows something that isn't possible to do unassisted" could be considered within the scope of the site.
You contradicted yourself there.
To clarify, I meant that a run that shows something that isn't possible to do unassisted, that shows something (or preferably many things) not shown in any other movie, and is generally considered to be of high quality should be considered. I apologize if I was a bit hasty in nominating this particular movie since it apparently fails my first test (I don't purport to be any sort of expert on M64, I just like watching it).
mmbossman wrote:
more and more movies with less and less quality
I don't think variety necessitates lower quality... however it certainly opens the door to that. Again, I think reviewing the quality of currently published movies is more productive than stopping new material from being produced. Not to "unpublish" anything but to "separate the wheat from the chaff" so to speak. http://tasvideos.org/905M.html This is my movie, and I think it is easily surpassed by this Mario 64 movie not on technical refinement but certainly on entertainment. So a more precise movie that contained the same unique elements to me would increase the average entertainment value. By the same token, moving my movie and others that are in the same vein (technically precise and somewhat entertaining) away from the super awesome movies would increase the average entertainment in that awesome movie section. Repeating myself again, sorry.
I think that while this run was unorthodox and interesting, the need for a non-time based entertainment run heavily decreases when the current movie/s for the game are already chock full of entertaining material.
Agreed, and there's YouTube. SM64 TASing is a YouTube fad for whatever reason; there's millions of "freeruns", alternate star routes and glitch videos there.
