Post subject: Star Fox 2
Active player (333)
Joined: 11/25/2004
Posts: 75
It's the middle of final exam week, so naturally I have nothing better to do than start TASing again. The unreleased Star Fox 2 seemed interesting, so I played around a bit and made a test run on Normal difficulty. (I wish I had a decent gamepad so I can try real-time Expert.) It only took a couple of days to make and could certainly be much more optimized, but I was learning as I went. Star Fox 2 Normal test run Length: 36046 frames, 10:01 real-time, 039 in-game time ROM: Star Fox 2 (Beta TD).smc with translation patch sf2-e-final.ips from here. A few notes: - Peppy was the default choice for a partner, but I picked Miyu because her name is cooler. - I only destroy the first missile because the satellite can't get to it before it hits Corneria. - There is a short delay (<1 sec) between when you gain control of the cursor and when the ship actually starts moving on the map. - Most of the game runs at 20fps, however there is a lot of lag, much more than the original Star Fox. - Titania was just sloppy. The turns outside the base were unnecessary, and I probably should have kept the bombs instead of picking up the shield. - I'm not sure what the purpose of the Pepper coins is. I pick them up but they seem to do nothing. Could someone enlighten me? - Notice the wonderful depth buffering at the end of the Wolf fight, as his ship flies through the camera. - It's weird being in all-range mode and yet still having to fly straight down the corridors in Andross's base. - I had to redo the entire Andross fight because of a desync, but that's okay because I found a way to save an entire second of game-time. - For Andross's mask, it only matters how many times you hit the eyes, not how much damage you do to them. The cube, however, does take damage. So, would a TAS of this game be publishable? (Not this run obviously, but a better one on Expert difficulty or something). The game was never released by Nintendo but it was finished, and the patch just does some translation and bug fixes. I will do a run regardless, I just wanted to know if it is submittable. Also, can anyone tell me what the Pepper coins do?
Currently working on: SNES Star Fox, Level 3 (100%, published) SNES Star Fox, Level 2 (33%, after Sector X) SNES Star Fox 2, Expert mode (100%, published)
Joined: 2/26/2007
Posts: 1365
Location: Minnesota
With where the coins are located, they must be some challenge coin, aimed at giving the game a higher replay value and added difficulty. EDIT: Yes, I think the game should be submitted... even if it gets no farther than concept demo (due to patch) It looked very good, game wise, but I do think that medium or hard should be played.
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 8/12/2007
Posts: 102
Nice run, I think this game deserves a submission (Expert or whatever).
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
There's a Pepper coin located in every level and battleship on every difficulty. Collecting one restores your shields; what collecting them ALL does is beyond me. Also (I haven't watched it yet), you said Miyu was your partner; wouldn't she be preferable as your main? She's faster AND has a stronger gun, plus she can be accessed faster than Fay, who has the same stats, because you wouldn't have to go through the animation the control scheme slot gives you. Other than that, I think this has potential. I look forward to it!
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Active player (333)
Joined: 11/25/2004
Posts: 75
mmbossman wrote:
Take a look here too
Well that's interesting. Looks like a WIP never materialized from lipucd. I've been somewhat busy and only got up to beating Macbeth. Turns out Miyu is much better than Fox, especially the rapid-fire charged shots (thanks Ferret). In the thread above, Nach said to use the ROM from NSRT. However, the url he gave doesn't work (http://nsrt.edgeemu.com). Should I use this mysterious other ROM or stick with the one I have now? (Unheard dialogue from character selection screen) Miyu: "I love you, Fox! *smooch*" Fox: "Oh yeah, I'm getting some tonight!"
Currently working on: SNES Star Fox, Level 3 (100%, published) SNES Star Fox, Level 2 (33%, after Sector X) SNES Star Fox 2, Expert mode (100%, published)
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Glad I could be of SOME help somewhere. ;P Just watched your recent WIP. Not bad; good amount of action, plus some obvious marks of a TAS, like when you're about to ram headlong into a door right before it opens. Loved that part especially. Just one question I have: Have you considered what the optimal route might be?
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Joined: 6/4/2004
Posts: 284
Good job on this, YtterbiJum. I tried making a run of this game awhile ago, and found it rather funny that all the "talking" the characters do is made up of different voice clips sped up, so I heard "T-t-t-twin blasters! Twin blasters!" over and over. Just a bit of trivia.
Joined: 4/2/2008
Posts: 103
Location: The Netherlands
YtterbiJum wrote:
In the thread above, Nach said to use the ROM from NSRT.
Yeah, that website went down ages ago. You can still get NSRT from Romhacking.net though.
Active player (333)
Joined: 11/25/2004
Posts: 75
Ferret Warlord wrote:
Just one question I have: Have you considered what the optimal route might be?
Actually, no I hadn't. To that effect, I went back and redid the WIP and found several semi-major improvements. New WIP Notables: * Tried a better route, a mostly circular path: Titania -> Battleship -> Macbeth -> Venom (current) -> Battleship -> Eladard -> Battleship -> Fortuna -> Meteor -> Battleship. Probably some missiles/enemies will be fought along the way. I know Andross launches a satellite-take-over-blob at 035 and the second battleship launches new enemies at 039. * The Star Fox ship launching scene can be skipped. Don't know why I didn't do that before. * Different missile/enemy fights to start off. Those little flapping guys aligned perfectly and were easy to take out with single shots. * Titania went pretty well, got a few desyncs flying into the base but oh well. * I approached Battleship 1 from a different angle and saved 4 frames entering. My luck ran out trying to shoot the second spider enemy on the wall. I just couldn't seem to hit it with two charged shots no matter what I tried, which lost a good bit of time. * However, my luck returned on Macbeth when I found that I could shoot the Knight from afar and do lots of damage without him reflecting my shots. Also, better core strategy saved lots of frames.
Stage times:
                    WIP 2     WIP 1     Time saved in WIP 2
Titania             3059                N/A
Battleship 1        2287      2280      -8
Macbeth             2924      3445      521
Currently working on: SNES Star Fox, Level 3 (100%, published) SNES Star Fox, Level 2 (33%, after Sector X) SNES Star Fox 2, Expert mode (100%, published)
Post subject: Hello IRC! \^o^/
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
^_^b I anticipate how badly the bosses get decimated.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Joined: 6/2/2007
Posts: 55
I have no idea if this helps at all, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfugo15RU9M It's a guy doing the game on Expert, and he shows (around 13:30 I think) how on a certain planet, Miyu will turn into Fox...which is odd. Now, he says it saved him from dying against Andross, so I doubt that will matter for a TAS as you probably want more damage/speed for bosses rather than defense - unless it's easier to take loads of damage, but I'm not that familiar with the game. Just thought I'd point it out, in case someone can use it.
Active player (333)
Joined: 11/25/2004
Posts: 75
Heh, just barely slipped off the first page. :) I started working on this again last week, doing some memory-address-finding. I'm still not very good at it, couldn't find the health of some enemies. I found that many of them have health that starts at 100 and they die at some lower value, like 90 (for battleship cores) or 50 (for the two enemies in Battleship 2). Twin shots do 2 damage in plane-mode and 4 damage in ground-mode, and charged shots do 10 damage in either mode. Therefore, it is faster to charge-shot enemies in plane-mode and rapid-fire twins in ground-mode. I made it up to after beating Meteor and several missiles. One of the missiles I found a nice glitch where a charged-shot + a twin shot = instant kill, so I got a time of 0.0 seconds for that battle :D. Pigma also went down nicely; it is hard to fight them normally because they tend to barrel-roll and reflect the charged shots. Meteor was kind of weird, in that the switches take a while to activate after they are hit, and you can't get too far away from them or they won't activate. That is why there is one frame of brake after I hit the first switch and am heading toward the second. After the second switch, obviously I needed to be in front of the base when it opened, so I did this strange back-and-forth motion in front of it. Good thing those G-diffusers work so well. The rest of the game should be fairly linear: two planets, then two battleships (with enemy groups), then Wolf, then Andross. I anticipate approximately 20 minutes final time, if not less (currently at 11 minutes). Oh yeah, almost forgot: current WIP
Currently working on: SNES Star Fox, Level 3 (100%, published) SNES Star Fox, Level 2 (33%, after Sector X) SNES Star Fox 2, Expert mode (100%, published)
Active player (333)
Joined: 11/25/2004
Posts: 75
Woohoo, speedy progress! Beat Fortuna and Eladard. Andross finally decided to launch the remaining Battleships. In the video linked above, he launched them right after Meteor, so I was kind of expecting them then. Oh well, it works out fine. So here's the plan for the rest of the game: beat the enemy group right next to me, then the Battleship, then the satellite will shoot the other enemy group, then beat the take-over-satellite group, then beat the other Battleship, then Wolf, then Andross. I think that's correct; if not, remember that I'm basically making it up as I go along. Pretty sure that's the fastest way though. A couple things of interest. On Fortuna, right as the Arwing-swimming-machine enters the base, it fires a shot. The only button I was pressing was left, and I even let go of it as soon as I lost control. Thus, no button presses could have caused the shot to fire. It was easy to avoid by pressing up-left instead of left, but I left it in as a curiousity. Also, this.
Currently working on: SNES Star Fox, Level 3 (100%, published) SNES Star Fox, Level 2 (33%, after Sector X) SNES Star Fox 2, Expert mode (100%, published)
Active player (333)
Joined: 11/25/2004
Posts: 75
Um, triple post? I guess no one's interested in this anymore. Nevertheless, I will finish and submit this soon. WIP (all planets and battleships done). Remaining: - beat Andross's two lackeys - beat Wolf - beat Andross - ??? - Profit!
Currently working on: SNES Star Fox, Level 3 (100%, published) SNES Star Fox, Level 2 (33%, after Sector X) SNES Star Fox 2, Expert mode (100%, published)
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
I saw the last WIP. I think the game is interesting and might be considered for a concept demo, but I'm going to hold off on my opinions for now (and not watch that WIP you just posted so the final run is not too familiar to me). Here's one person watching this thread.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Joined: 10/15/2007
Posts: 685
No worries, I'm definitely still interested. I've just been watching silently.
Kirby said so, so it must be true. ( >'.')>
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
I'm interested as well and have also been watching silently. Here's an encode of the latest wip :)
Editor, Player (54)
Joined: 12/25/2004
Posts: 634
Location: Aguascalientes, Mexico
Nice WIP you got there YtterbiJum & thanks to bkDJ for the video. I lol several times during the run, like in the boss battles XD
I'm the best in the Universe! Remember that!
Active player (333)
Joined: 11/25/2004
Posts: 75
Sorry this took so long. Schoolwork + a bazillion desyncs against Andross = grrrr. Anyway, here you go! So, final time is 22 minutes real time, 082 game time. No damage to Corneria, 340470 score, Mario rank (?). Some notes: - The two bosses were pushovers. Wolf was more difficult, mainly because he does more barrel rolls than the other members of his team. There were a few charged shots that he deflected so that I could hit him with others immediately afterward. It may look awkward, but it works. - I picked up some nova bombs in Astropolis, which came in handy when fighting Andross. - Speaking of Andross, the beginning of the fight in the subspace area (when he is a mask) is ridiculous when it comes to desyncs. Loading a savestate there would sometimes (but not always) cause a desync. This made it very difficult to get past the "shoot the eyes" part. I was glad when it finally worked and the rest of the fight went quickly. Anyone watching this, let me know if the movie desyncs anywhere, especially during the Andross fight. So, should I submit? If nobody says no, I'll assume that means yes.
Currently working on: SNES Star Fox, Level 3 (100%, published) SNES Star Fox, Level 2 (33%, after Sector X) SNES Star Fox 2, Expert mode (100%, published)
Joined: 11/2/2007
Posts: 103
That screenshot has me wondering how the score system works. comparing it with my own playthrough on youtube, you have 1/3 the time, killed less stuff, but my score is only about 2/3 of your score.
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Synchs just fine for me. I say go ahead and submit it; it would most likely find a home in the Concept Demos section if anything. Was it just me or were you trying to spell something right before Eladard? I've been watching it and can't quite decode it if you were.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Experienced player (690)
Joined: 11/23/2013
Posts: 2232
Location: Guatemala
WELP!!! Nintendo just announced the SNES Classic Edition which is coming out in September. It includes 20 games + a game that NOBODY was expecting... STAR FOX 2 MY DUDES... FRICKIN STAR FOX 2 is getting an official release after 20 something years!!! That's so insane... So, I guess they're releasing the full, completed version of the game which is definitely somehow going to get dumped. So... I think that means someone could make a new TAS of the official release whenever the thing comes out. Though I have no idea of any improvements myself.
Here, my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/dekutony
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2642)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6438
Location: The land down under.
As a note. Star Fox 2 has come out in its entirety on the SNES Classic. AND. The game has already been dumped and is available online (not linking cause obvious reasons against site rules, Google it). So I guess this is the point to this is that we can say Final Game is out and it's time to switch to that version instead for the next TAS.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Joined: 10/14/2013
Posts: 335
Location: Australia
To add on to what Spike said, the new "official" ROM has been tested to work on the SNES Jr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnxxu2lEC_I
I'm not as active as I once was, but I can be reached here if I should be needed.