Fire n' Ice is the sequal to Solomon's Key. The goal of this puzzle game is to remove fires using iceblocks.
  • Movie plays back on: FCEUX 2.1.5.
  • Emulator originally used: FCEU 0.98.28 (I converted the .fcm to .fm2, but the resulting movie file was over 5mb large, compared to the .fcm which was 92 kb. So the submitted movie file is the .fcm due to the 150kb limit on movie files. The .fm2 did synch, however.)
  • Aims for fastest possible time.
  • Genre: Puzzle.

About the game

Fire n' Ice is a puzzle game, where the goal is to remove fires using iceblocks. Our hero, Dana, can create new iceblocks and move them around by pushing them. The game is not very complicated, I belive you will have no problems understanding how the game works simply by watching this TAS.

How this run compares to Ragowit's TAS

The biggest difference between this TAS and Ragowit's TAS is that this one is done on the U version of the game, while Ragowit's TAS was recorded on the E version. Besides the obvious PAL/NTSC difference between the two game versions, the only differences are:
  • The screen scrolls faster on the U version than on the E version (see level 3-10, for example).
  • Enemies that move, move faster on the U version than on the E version.
  • The final boss level is different.
Because of the first two points, most of the final levels on each world are played differently than in Ragowit's TAS.
In total, 24 of the 101 levels are played differently than in Ragowit's TAS. In most of the levels, the improvement is very minor and saves only a few frames, while in other levels, the improvement can add up to a few seconds.
They levels that have new strategies are: They are: 1-10, 2-4, 2-10, 3-3, 4-1, 4-2, 4-6 ,5-3 ,5-5 ,5-6 ,7-1 ,7-6 ,7-7 ,7-9 ,7-10 ,8-10 ,9-2 ,9-6 ,9-7 ,10-1 ,10-4 ,10-7 ,10-9 and 10-10 final boss.
It's hard to compare this run to Ragowit's run due to the version difference, but I've calculated that the improved strategies alone add up to about 30 seconds. I did not consider optimized movements, although I don't think there are many of them.
The in-game timer increases faster in the U version than in the E version. That's why my in-game time always is higher than in Ragowit's TAS.
Observant viewers might also spot what looks to be wall-hacking in a few levels. If you press left+right after you've performed an action, it will be visually performed again. Dana won't actually perform the movement again, but his sprite will move in that way. So if you move from left to right and then hold down left+right, Dana's sprite will continue running, even run inside a wall if there is one next to him. But again, this is just a visual glitch, and Dana doesn't actually move anywhere.

Closure:

The reason for the low re-record count is simply because this game is extremely easy to TAS. Once you have the strategy for a level planned out, you don't need many re-records at all to record it. I also used a lua-script that allowed me to use less re-records than I normally would.
If you find an improvement to this run, please don't hesitate to let me know. This game is very edit-friendly, so the improvement can easily be edited in, without any risk of desynchs.
I'd like to thank the following people:
  • Obviously Ragowit, for his TAS. Most of the strategies he used are still used in this TAS.
  • Wilson Lau for his FAQ on Gamefaqs. Ragowit said in his author's comments that he used about 90% of Wilson's strategies in his TAS. In turn, I used about 80% of Ragowit's strategies in my TAS, so Wilson's guide is really good, even for a tool assisted speedrun of the game.
  • Slotermeyer for his strategies on levels 2-4 and 2-10.
  • Aglar for his strategy on 1-10.
  • Xepher for his improvement on 8-10.
  • Omega for his encode of Ragowit's TAS. I used that encode a lot for comparisons.
  • Everyone else who has shown interest in this game!
It was fun making this TAS, and I hope you'll enjoy watching it.

Bisqwit: Submission updated ― author says the movie was improved by 36 frames.

mmbossman: I'm rejecting this movie due to viewer feedback and concerns regarding (lack of) entertainment value. Good luck on your next project Randil.

Nach: Here's the video to watch directly: (Flowplayer module removed) This video is a great Solomon's Key 2 walkthrough / Fire 'n Ice walkthrough.
Here's some post ending video with a bit of a surprise: (Flowplayer module removed)

adelikat Unrejecting this submission for consideration into the Vault tier

Nach: This movie was actually one of our most searched for movies a while back. Perfect for a vault category.

Brandon: Publication underway.


Joined: 4/30/2007
Posts: 150
thanks for the encode again, cant remember the last time there was a tas i actually wanted to watch high fives all around
Joined: 2/12/2008
Posts: 67
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Voted no. This game just isn't TAS-able unless some major glitch is found. Like LagDotCom said, if I didn't know this was a TAS I'd think it was a video walkthrough.
Joined: 11/2/2007
Posts: 103
last time I checked TAS never required usage of glitches or any crap like that. Whatever happened to TASes simply being a demonstration of the fastest time in which one could possibly complete a game? On top of that, what constitutes a good or bad game is entirely up to who watches it, so if someone is willing to create a TAS of what you consider a bad game, why deny it for those who actually may want to see it? a TAS is a TAS. It's not Tool Assisted Speedruns of Games We Think Should Have One. call it a video tutorial if you like, but making an attempt to complete it as fast as possible sounds like a good enough reason to post something on a site where things are done as fast as possible.
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Joined: 9/11/2004
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Actually, the purpose of this site is to entertain, not to collect best possible times on every game. I'll leave that challenge up to a website on finite state machines.
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Joined: 11/2/2007
Posts: 103
then goddamn, why worry about how fast it's done if it's all about entertainment? The PURPOSE, as you say, is to entertain. Not to do it fast. Choose one or the other.
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I'm with Cheezwizz on this one. I didn't think this site was exclusively for sufferers of attention deficit disorder. I find it cool enough to see a good game completed without a single mistake or hesitation.
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mklip2001
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Ah, it's that classic argument again. In the case of this game, I think entertainment is directly tied to playing the game fast, since there are nearly no opportunities for showboating or close calls. Also, the game is already so long that there's no reason to stretch it out further. I enjoyed seeing the puzzles in this game get solved, but this definitely isn't the game to highlight what tool assistance can do to a game. The only stages where delaying actually makes a difference to solving the puzzle are the "boss" stages, unlike in the original Solomon's Key, where there is so much emphasis on dodging swarms of enemies. We have one or two other submissions for puzzle games where timing does not affect how the solution is obtained (Kwirk comes to mind). However, I guess people considered Kwirk more entertaining because it's shorter and the multi-player puzzles are interesting. In comparison to Kwirk, I feel fewer of the solutions are genuinely surprising in this game.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Hey, has anybody discussed making a movie of the secret levels 11 through 15 in this game? Wait a few minutes after the game's regular ending to find out how to unlock them.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK
I wasn't trying to bring up the entertainment debate. I'm strongly in favour of entertainment. I'm just not sure I find this entertaining. I definitely like the game (and indeed, tried to TAS it myself) but I'm not sure it's in line with the goals of the site.
Voted NO for NO reason
Joined: 11/2/2007
Posts: 103
"We publish recordings of classic console games, formed by constructing an input file slowly over time using an emulator as a tool to overcome human limitations such as skill and reflex, then playing the file back to give the impression that the game is played extraordinarily."
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Cheezwizz wrote:
"We publish recordings of classic console games, formed by constructing an input file slowly over time using an emulator as a tool to overcome human limitations such as skill and reflex, then playing the file back to give the impression that the game is played extraordinarily."
Some people are of the opinion that because this is a relatively simple game (in terms of movement), that it would not be particularly difficult to replicate these results in real time. A TAS that can be replicated in real time is certainly not extraordinary.
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Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
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Location: Seattle, WA
Couldn't make it past the 20 minute mark. I ended up skipping ahead to see if it got more interesting, only to find that the levels just get more complicated/longer. I'm afraid this gets a No from me.
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gia
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Joined: 5/3/2006
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mmbossman wrote:
Cheezwizz wrote:
"We publish recordings of classic console games, formed by constructing an input file slowly over time using an emulator as a tool to overcome human limitations such as skill and reflex, then playing the file back to give the impression that the game is played extraordinarily."
Some people are of the opinion that because this is a relatively simple game (in terms of movement), that it would not be particularly difficult to replicate these results in real time. A TAS that can be replicated in real time is certainly not extraordinary.
well then, any takers on proving it?
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 893
gia wrote:
mmbossman wrote:
Cheezwizz wrote:
"We publish recordings of classic console games, formed by constructing an input file slowly over time using an emulator as a tool to overcome human limitations such as skill and reflex, then playing the file back to give the impression that the game is played extraordinarily."
Some people are of the opinion that because this is a relatively simple game (in terms of movement), that it would not be particularly difficult to replicate these results in real time. A TAS that can be replicated in real time is certainly not extraordinary.
well then, any takers on proving it?
http://speeddemosarchive.com/Mario1.html the current record is faster than the firsts tases
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Do note that the SDA timing rules are different from the TASVideos timing rules. In particular, IIRC they start from when you actually start the game (skipping any intro scenes, etc.) while TASVideos starts from power-on. Still, the difference in speed between the TASVideos and SDA SMB runs is marginal. SMB is not a very complicated game.
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gia
Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
3 seconds according to wikipedia, so if smb stays here that means an unassisted run of this could be up to just 38 seconds slower and it would still be enough difference to keep this tas around :P
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Nicos wrote:
http://speeddemosarchive.com/Mario1.html the current record is faster than the firsts tases
The current record doesn't replicate the first TASes; they used outdated strategies.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
The any% SMB run isn't very interesting, really. It's on the site because it's freakin' Super Mario Bros, but as a run it's pretty dull. This game isn't freakin' Super Mario Bros.
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Player (206)
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But it could be, if you gave it a chance!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
arflech
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Zurreco wrote:
Couldn't make it past the 20 minute mark. I ended up skipping ahead to see if it got more interesting, only to find that the levels just get more complicated/longer. I'm afraid this gets a No from me.
It gets very interesting at the last level, when Dana defeats Druidle.
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Joined: 11/2/2007
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Derakon wrote:
The any% SMB run isn't very interesting, really. It's on the site because it's freakin' Super Mario Bros, but as a run it's pretty dull. This game isn't freakin' Super Mario Bros.
So what you're saying is that you play favorites and host unthrilling, useless extra TASes for games just because they're those games. Jesus christ, why not just rename the site Metroid & Mario Videos, if that's what it's about.
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
Actually, I think the SMB run is entertaining, and while obviously that has something to do with the game's popularity, I think I would enjoy it anyway because it is a short game. If the any% SMB run was over an hour long, I do not think anyone would enjoy it. As it is, even the warpless is less than 20 minutes. If a game is not a classic, lacks viewing entertainment, and is not short, it is going to be very hard to watch. IMO, SMB is fun/short/entertaining, and obviously a good deal of others agree, because it was published. I don't think it's really fair to put it in the same category as this game, which is not interesting to watch and takes way too long. Some games are fun to play and horrible to watch; those just don't seem suitable for publication.
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Acheron86 wrote:
obviously a good deal of others agree, because it was published.
While I mostly agree with your post, you got this part backwards: it's published because people agree, not the other way around.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
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Cheezwizz, have you actually watched this run?
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gia
Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
I watched over 20 mins jumping here and there but wasnt really counting, must have been between 30 and 40 mins. So, possibilty of a speedrun getting a similar time is not very heavy since it would have to be at least faster than 1 hour 4 minutes. Unpopular game rejected last I heard was to be changed in the mentality of tasvideos. Long tas? there's way longer, long boring tas? pokemon gold is 2 hours plus, pokemon is boring, easier to watch in fast forward. Since you can watch this one on 4x ff without losing much it makes it what, 16 mins long? :P