Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 123
Location: Lake Havasu, Arizona
Very interesting bag of magic, and baxter. I did a little research and you guys are right. This glitch only happens in the rockman 3 rom, but NOT the megaman 3 rom.
Here's proof:
when defeating hardman, or any boss, it'll run the code to setup the explosion stuff, all those little balls.
In the megaman 3 rom, there's this piece of code that specifically checks if your playing the hard man level or not, specified by $22, 03 is the hard man level.
So then it'll set the Vertical Camera register $FA to 00, to prevent the screen from being scrolled down a little bit if you beat him during his earthquake attack:
http://www.alienaa.com//members/1119/mm3rom.PNG
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But, in this same area on the rockman 3 rom, that code does not exist whatsoever.
http://www.alienaa.com//members/1119/rock3rom.PNG
The rock3 rom does have some differences cause alot of code banks are shifted to the left or right by a few bytes compared to the mm3 rom.
So then maybe there might be some more little glitches in the rock3 rom like this, which are fixed in the mm3 rom.
I found this out because im an expert with the inner workings of mm3 and know just about how anything works in the mm3 since i've been working on a rom hack of mm3 for years so far.
Interesting find though you guys. :) About this little glitch cause of the code not existent in rock3
Good news! I found the address for sliding motion! It is in the 0400 and 0420 hex addresses! Maybe I could use this to my advantage! This can indicate if I pulled off whatever sliding glitch. :)
This will be the fastest Mega Man 3 speedrun ever! Wooooo!!! :D
Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 123
Location: Lake Havasu, Arizona
If there's anything you need to know in terms of RAM addresses for anything at all in megaman 3, i can give you whatever info you need .. (to you mega-man 3)
400-41F and 420-43F is the high and low byte of horizontal X speeds for all enemies/bosses/megaman
440-45F and 460-47F - same thing but for vertical Y speed
If there's anything you need to know in terms of RAM addresses for anything at all in megaman 3, i can give you whatever info you need .. (to you mega-man 3)
400-41F and 420-43F is the high and low byte of horizontal X speeds for all enemies/bosses/megaman
440-45F and 460-47F - same thing but for vertical Y speed
Thanks kuja killer!
I figured it out now! The 0400 address means the number of pixels Mega Man is traveling and the 0420 address is the same thing but divided by 256!
This means his sliding speed is 2.5 pixels and his walking speed is 1.296875 pixels! :D
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Speaking of your route choice I first got the impression that your only timesaver would be using Rush Jet in Magnet Man's level. I now see that you'll also be able to use Spark Man's weapon on Magnet Man and this might get your route strategy to work. However, it will probably be a very close call and even if you beat my time by a few seconds it's no guarantee that your route is faster since you might be able to do the old route faster then me. So kudos to you for even trying this:)
mega_man_3 wrote:
I also have a new strategy for the Snake Man-Gemini Man-Needle Man route. I will start with Gemini Man (not for the entire run just for that boss chain) so I can use Rush Jet for that stage so that when I go to Snake Man's stage it will already be full. I can use Shadow Blade for Gemini Man unless there's some other weapon stronger than that besides Search Snake.
Cleaver strategy, when I tased this game I really should've done some route planning instead of only focusing on getting the levels faster than in the previous run - I was young and stupid:). About your choice, I think it would be faster going Snake/Gemini/Needle because the only extra things needed is to pick up 4 small weapon refills in Snake Man's stage and then you can use search snake on the fishes and the boss in Gemini Man's stage.
It seems like the biggest trick would be comparing boss fight times with the respective weaknesses; if you save 5 seconds with Needle Shot vs Snake Man, 7 seconds with Search Snakes on Gemini Man, and 8 seconds with Gemini Laser on Needle Man, then it's likely that you should do Snake Man first, simply because you need to sacrifice one of these gains, so you should sacrifice the worst. Naturally, Rush Jet gains will have to be weighed against these as well.
Speaking of your route choice I first got the impression that your only timesaver would be using Rush Jet in Magnet Man's level. I now see that you'll also be able to use Spark Man's weapon on Magnet Man and this might get your route strategy to work. However, it will probably be a very close call and even if you beat my time by a few seconds it's no guarantee that your route is faster since you might be able to do the old route faster then me. So kudos to you for even trying this:)
Actually, I thought about switching to Shadow Blade for Magnet Man's stage after Rush Jet so that I could use it on that enemy that's blocking the path near the end. It's also good becuse there is less lag.
I think it will be faster if I start with Top Man for my run because Hard Man takes 28 hits to beat and that's way too long. I even did the math for it.
Start with Hard Man = 28 hits + 4 hits for Top Man's boss fight = 32 hits = 16 seconds
Start with Top Man = 14 hits + 7 hits for Hard Man = 21 hits = 11.5 seconds
I know I have to wait for about two seconds for Top Man to do his Top Spin before I can hit him again but I think the time difference will be worth it!
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
mega_man_3 wrote:
I think it will be faster if I start with Top Man for my run because Hard Man takes 28 hits to beat and that's way too long. I even did the math for it.
Start with Hard Man = 28 hits + 4 hits for Top Man's boss fight = 32 hits = 16 seconds
Start with Top Man = 14 hits + 7 hits for Hard Man = 21 hits = 11.5 seconds
I know I have to wait for about two seconds for Top Man to do his Top Spin before I can hit him again but I think the time difference will be worth it!
I think this route has been discussed before but never really got implemented so go ahead and try if you like.
While testing a new way of jumping in the first room of Hard Man's stage I found another thing. If you shoot magnets before a big bee appears and then make the bee appear before the magnet has left the screen the magnet will travel up and will, with the right timing, hit the big bee. Short demonstration.
Also I noticed that my run was faster than your test run at the end of the first room due to some better Rush maneuvers. Here's how you could've gained 2 more frames in your run.
Edit: Links works
I think it will be faster if I start with Top Man for my run because Hard Man takes 28 hits to beat and that's way too long. I even did the math for it.
Start with Hard Man = 28 hits + 4 hits for Top Man's boss fight = 32 hits = 16 seconds
Start with Top Man = 14 hits + 7 hits for Hard Man = 21 hits = 11.5 seconds
I know I have to wait for about two seconds for Top Man to do his Top Spin before I can hit him again but I think the time difference will be worth it!
I think this route has been discussed before but never really got implemented so go ahead and try if you like.
While testing a new way of jumping in the first room of Hard Man's stage I found another thing. If you shoot magnets before a big bee appears and then make the bee appear before the magnet has left the screen the magnet will travel up and will, with the right timing, hit the big bee. Short demonstration.
Also I noticed that my run was faster than your test run at the end of the first room due to some better Rush maneuvers. Here's how you could've gained 2 more frames in your run.
Edit: Links works
Awesome demonstration Algar! You're really good at finding these glitches!
BTW here's my RM3 WIP (starting with Top Man):
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/995973884/mega_man_3-Rockman%203%20%28J%29%20WIP1%20%28new%20route%29.fcm
Sorry if near the end of Shadow Man's stage it turned out slower than usual but there was no way to luck manipulate the boss's action and the only way to do that is by entering the boss room at a different time. Even with lag if you enter on that exact same frame the boss does that same sequence of actions (I tested this on enemies too)!
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
mega_man_3 wrote:
Awesome demonstration Algar!
Hm, you're not the first one calling me that. Maybe I should switch username - which seeems to be quite popular these days.
About your WIP I can say that discovering making enemies disappear is incredibly nice and will make up for a big improvement. Can it be used on other enemies than the ones in the WIP, or do you even know what criterium an enemy must fulfill in order to disappear like this?
Now I'm sorry to be a little nitpicky but I found a small improvement in the last room of Top Man's level. I here managed to gain 4 frames in that room(didn't watch the memory so well so you might be able to improve it further), I think the key is to walk on the spinning objects (can't remember what they're called) that goes downwards - since if you continuously change Mega Man's state (between walking, standing, sliding etc) you creature more lag in general.
To bad you where that unlucky at the boss, if I counted right you lost 19 frames on that situation. Have you tried exchanging lag frames for ingame time frames? That is for example if you slide in a laggy area you can sometimes stop for one frame and slide again on the next frame resulting in one frame less of lag. You won't gain/lose any frame there and then but you advance the ingame counter which can be good for manipulation of any kind without having to wait.
About your WIP I can say that discovering making enemies disappear is incredibly nice and will make up for a big improvement. Can it be used on other enemies than the ones in the WIP, or do you even know what criterium an enemy must fulfill in order to disappear like this?
I take it you mean the Holograms in ShadowMan's stage? It looks like one of those scrolling exploits where MegaMan turned around for one frame, which was enough to scroll the Hologram off the screen but not far enough to scroll a new one on. You can do a more famous version of that trick with the bees in HardMan's stage in real time quite easily.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Looks great! Nice going abusing the fact that the left and right sides of the screen overlaps. The outcome with the manipulation of Shadow Man is still far from perfect, but I take it that you've spent a lot of time making sure that it it can't be better at the given moment, so I won't nag about that anymore.
Btw, what is the exact route you're using? I quickly came up with this one, which might contain errors but looks quite good at the first glance:
Top - Shadow - Snake (use Shadow Blade on the boss) - Gemini - Needle - Magnet - Hard, Spark Man to be done any time after Shadow Man.
This way you only need to collect ammo for Rush Jet in Snake- and Gemini levels and you don't need to collect that much ammo either. Or do you have a better route coming up?
Looks great! Nice going abusing the fact that the left and right sides of the screen overlaps. The outcome with the manipulation of Shadow Man is still far from perfect, but I take it that you've spent a lot of time making sure that it it can't be better at the given moment, so I won't nag about that anymore.
Btw, what is the exact route you're using? I quickly came up with this one, which might contain errors but looks quite good at the first glance:
Top - Shadow - Snake (use Shadow Blade on the boss) - Gemini - Needle - Magnet - Hard, Spark Man to be done any time after Shadow Man.
This way you only need to collect ammo for Rush Jet in Snake- and Gemini levels and you don't need to collect that much ammo either. Or do you have a better route coming up?
Thanks! Actually, I did the calculations for how many frames I lost on Shadow Man's boss and it was 14 frames. I think I might start over again from Top Man and see if I can get a better outcome because to me 14 frames is way too much as I'm going for ≤ 30:00 minutes.
And about my boss route, I wasn't really sure about what to do after Shadow Man (the order in which Spark Man's stage is done doesn't really matter since I can use Shadow Blade on Magnet Man) but I was thinking about doing either Gemini Man, Magnet Man, Snake Man, or even Needle Man (only because of the position on the screen when he gets killed). The time it takes to switch from one weapon to another will also have an impact on my boss route too.
Also, vertical height for killing a boss has no impact whatsoever as the energy balls disappear off the top and bottom of the screen and Mega Man still has to wait for the ending theme to play! So now I know when killing a boss, it's all about x-displacement.
Hmm, so only the X-coordinate of the explosion matters for how soon you collect the power in this game, but in Mega Man 4 and Mega Man 3 GB you want it centered between all four sides as much as possible, huh. Were there any other Mega Man games where the victory timing works like this? I imagine it's even trickier in this game because you lose your momentum immediately when the boss explodes, so both MegaMan and his opponent would have to be in the middle for the fastest finish. Is that why you're getting Shadow Blade so early? So you can throw it straight up at somebody while you're both in the middle?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Hmm, so only the X-coordinate of the explosion matters for how soon you collect the power in this game, but in Mega Man 4 and Mega Man 3 GB you want it centered between all four sides as much as possible, huh. Were there any other Mega Man games where the victory timing works like this? I imagine it's even trickier in this game because you lose your momentum immediately when the boss explodes, so both MegaMan and his opponent would have to be in the middle for the fastest finish. Is that why you're getting Shadow Blade so early? So you can throw it straight up at somebody while you're both in the middle?
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
You might be right about that the y-position that the boss has when it dies doesn't matter in most cases, but if I remember right it at least matters on Needle Man since in that room you fight pretty close to the bottom of the screen.
Also I found that the route I suggested probably doesn't work since then you won't have Magnet Missle to take down those flying enemies in the Gemini stage before they've dropped their fire (unless you can kill them with Shadow Blade instead but I haven't tested that)
mega_man_3, you have a PM from me. Please read it and get back to me. You can access it from the link "You have 1 new message" at the top center, or the adress http://tasvideos.org/forum/privmsg.php?folder=inbox
mega_man_3, you have a PM from me. Please read it and get back to me. You can access it from the link "You have 1 new message" at the top center, or the adress http://tasvideos.org/forum/privmsg.php?folder=inbox
But I can't come up with a cool username! I need some ideas desperately! :(
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
mega_man_3 wrote:
But I can't come up with a cool username! I need some ideas desperately! :(
MM3
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
