Emulator Information
  • Snes9x 1.43v9
  • Use WIP1 Timing
  • Allow Left+Right / Up+Down
This Run Aims For
  • Any% item collection
  • Aiming for lowest realtime
  • Manipulates Luck
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Abuses programming errors
About the run itself
This run is an improvement over Hero of the Day's run by 3077 realtime frames, and 2774 ingame frames, clocking in at a time of 23 minutes and 29 seconds (23:29). The reason for the improvement is because of the higher level of optimization, and the new route. It is also to be noted that this run is about 16 seconds faster than Cpadolf's ingame oriented run.
It might be interesting to know that this run started nearly 3 years ago. The first smv was created on the 18th of February 2007. Since then it has faced about 20 restarts, and a very long downtime, due to lack of motivation. Due to all the restarts, the rerecord count might be misleading. So we decided to hexedit it and add a funny number instead. While it is hard to calculate the exact number of rerecords of all the smv's, we estimated the rerecord count to be in the early 7 digits.
The Route
The fundamental differences between the new route and the old route are as following:
  • Skips the Spazer
  • Picks up an additional Power Bomb pack
  • Fights both Ridley and Mother Brain with Power Bomb Shields
While the original idea was to skip Kraid's lair until after Ridley, we determined it slower, because of the lack of both the refills from Mini-Kraid, and the skipped Energy Tank. Also Ice Beam is skipped until after Ridley, to avoid a pause screen before him.
Other Major Improvements
All bosses but Draygon and Mother Brain were improved; on Draygon we picked up 6 more refills, and Mother Brain is slower to kill with Power Bomb shields than with the Spazer. The Bomb Torizo, Phantoon, Ridley and Kraid were improved quite a bit. At Torizo, the improved Torizo skip was applied, which saves nearly a full second over the old method. This is hard to measure, since individual skips may vary in time. Compared to Hero of the Day, 59 frames were saved. For Phantoon, we tried a different approach which proved to be very favorable. Compared to Hero of the Day, 106 frames were saved. At Kraid, a new strategy was used, which was published long ago; the idea is to shoot him while his mouth opens a tiny bit first. This makes him not close his mouth again, instead he opens it up completely. Roughly 60 frames were saved compared to Hero of the Day. Ridley was the whole reason for the new route; Power Bomb Shields do much more damage compared to the Spazer/Ice/Wave combo. Roughly 1300 frames were saved here.
Draygon and Mother Brain were the setbacks in this run; due to more refills from Draygon, we lost 76 frames. Also, Power Bomb Shields are not really designed for Mother Brain, since one of the shots is blocked by her body. Therefore, awkward jumping movement is needed for all 4 shots to hit. About 800 frames were lost here.
Other improvements are due to the higher level of optimization. Some framesaving tricks were found and used in this run. The first one is called the Subpixel Momentum Boost, short smb. The idea behind an smb is to spinjump towards a ledge and catch it while moving towards it. By doing this, you can get a little boost (half a pixel under perfect conditions, 1 pixel if using the turnaround trick Cpadolf found) which might save a frame in different places. It was used on all ledges where time could be saved, even if it did not. Later on, the perfect smb was found, which allowed smb's on all ledges, without having to optimize the starting position. The idea is to trigger a walljump at the same frame as you catch the ledge, where the walljump resets your subpixel to you highest, respectively, lowest value depending on where you are facing. Thus giving a perfect position everytime. As for Cpadolf's method, which included a little turnaround just before executing the smb, not a single application for this new smb was found. It was used once, but sadly it did not save any frames.
Another very fundamental trick is the x.04096 speed optimizations (assuming you have the Speedbooster, but no Hi-jump). This is one of the bigger framesavers as far as optimization goes. Every speed with a subpixel speed with 0.04096 gives the highest possible Y-jump speed possible. For example, jumping with a speed of 0.04096 gives a higher Y-jump speed than jumping with a speed of 1.00000. This is commonly used when you have to run for a few frames before you can jump; skipping dash for a 0.04096 speed will usually save time. Also, all other x.04096 speeds were used when climbing different shafts.
Left+Right walljumping was used in some places, where high speeds and awkward turns would ruin a normal walljump, but a inverse walljump would save time. An inverse walljump is a walljump on a ledge to the right of Samus, but the walljump is done from the left side. Sadly, this only works when facing right. This trick can also be used to trigger door-animations earlier, without adding any lag to the door transitions (it might at higher speeds).
Also, we discovered that unspinning before shinesparking gives Samus a full pixel of Y-position.
Door Transitions
This topic does indeed deserve its own header; many improvements had to be ignored due to random doorlag which made them end up either slower or equally fast (most likely changes the drops on future enemies aswell):
  • Early Norfair and the Bubble Room (3 frames)
  • Ki-Hunter room while escaping Ridley (2 frames)
  • The Sanctuary while escaping Ridley (6 frames) - False. This one was used, actually.
  • Pre-Botwoon while heading to Tourian (2 frames)
  • After the Big Metroid escape in Tourian (1 frame)
Door Transitions are very random. While they can be manipulated to an extent (such as positioning Samus to avoid scrolling doors), many improvements lead to differences in how long the door transition lasts. Now, the difference from this door might affect another door. This might work out in the favor of the player, but during the 2nd half of the game, all improvements worked against us (we kept one, since it gave us an ingame frame but no difference in realtime). We also have this theory that the droptables for most monsters (most pipebugs do not support this theory) are decided during the door transitions, which makes hex-editing much easier and gives it a higher successrate (assuming there is no differences in doorlag).
To create a perspective, a 4 frame improvement in the rising acid room in Lower Norfair ultimately gave us a 16 realtime frame lead. Sadly, the rising acid room was, since, reworked.
Special Thanks
We want to thank all the people from the Super Metroid community, such as:
  • Cpadolf
  • Evilchen
  • Frenom
  • Gocha
  • Gstick
  • Hero of the Day
  • JXQ
  • Michael Flatley
  • moozooh
  • Saturn
  • Spoofer
  • Terimakasih
  • Tonski (You two should do a run together!)
If we forgot your name, we're really sorry :(. Just poke us and we'll add your name.

Nach: Amazing run, accepting.

adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Expert player, Site Developer, Site Owner (3581)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4736
Location: Tennessee
Ok, I guess I'll be the one with the guts to say it. I think 1 million is grossly overestimated. Perhaps it is a very high number because these guys have been working hard for 2 years and have managed to scrape every frame possible. But based on my experience and the rerecord counts of other movies on this site, I'd say 300-400k is more accurate. I'd rather have 1337 than something that over-reports the true value as something absurdly record breaking. In the end though, the rerecord count of a movie is at best an estimate. Perhaps we shouldn't worry too much it as a stat since it has already known to be a false count in so many situations.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Expert player, Site Developer, Site Owner (3581)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4736
Location: Tennessee
Marcokarty wrote:
Who voted no deserves a permanent ban.
I don't want to provoke a useless argument on this subject but I want to say that I am more likely to ban someone who says this than the person who voted no.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Skilled player (1399)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Kriole wrote:
Baxter wrote:
The exact count is basically never known in team movies, as lots of rerecords get lost when exchanging movies. In all of these cases, the regularly displayed rerecord count is left unchanged. While this number might be a bit too low, it would give a good estimate (if no bots were used). Manually changing the rerecord count however doesn't give a good indication whatsoever, and I really disliked that they changed it.
How do rerecords get lost... O.o Anyways, we had to hexedit the smv because the author text was wrong, then instead of leaving the rerecord count at 0, we changed it to 1337.
Hmm, I didn't know the rerecord count was reset when the author information is changed... weird... Rerecords get lost when two people are making a TAS, and they work on the same room/level. After they finish, they show it to one another, and go with the fastest (or combine strategies). Only the faster version is used, and the slower version is discarded... the rerecords made in this version aren't represented in the published TAS.
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Yay, an encode! Thanks, OmnipotentEntity! Always a pleasure to watch a Super Metroid TAS, and this is the kind of quality we've come to expect. :) Nice work! I think my favorite bits are the slow-speedbooster through the screw attack pillars (that OmnipotentEntity screenshotted) and landing ibetween the space pirate's lasers shortly afterwards. Seeing Ridley go down without being hit by a single charged shot was also lovely. How does the slow speedbooster work, anyway?
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User, Experienced player (531)
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
adelikat wrote:
Ok, I guess I'll be the one with the guts to say it. I think 1 million is grossly overestimated. Perhaps it is a very high number because these guys have been working hard for 2 years and have managed to scrape every frame possible. But based on my experience and the rerecord counts of other movies on this site, I'd say 300-400k is more accurate. I'd rather have 1337 than something that over-reports the true value as something absurdly record breaking. In the end though, the rerecord count of a movie is at best an estimate. Perhaps we shouldn't worry too much it as a stat since it has already known to be a false count in so many situations.
I'd rather have an accurate (but conservative) estimate, rather than an absurd or comically low estimate. A million+ re-records is the equivalant to 5 years of hard work. There is definitley accurate methods that can be used to do it, such as using past movies Super Metroid movies. 220k I'd say is a reasonably safe estimate.
Player (147)
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 688
Location: WA State, USA
Derakon wrote:
How does the slow speedbooster work, anyway?
It's based the same principle as the short charge.
Marcokarty wrote:
Who voted no deserves a permanent ban.
Burn the witch!
Nach wrote:
I also used to wake up every morning, open my curtains, and see the twin towers. And then one day, wasn't able to anymore, I'll never forget that.
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User, Experienced player (531)
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
Voted no because Marcokarty told me do it. If I refused I'd get a permanent ban.
Experienced player (858)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Mitjitsu wrote:
Voted no because Marcokarty told me do it. If I refused I'd get a permanent ban.
Evidence suggest that you did indeed vote no, so I'd love to know why.
Joined: 6/3/2008
Posts: 136
Location: US
Gasp. Epic moment. Awesome SMV, I missed the reverrse-kago elevator (shocked me), getting through taking only 50 dmg. Ironically, it is only 1 frame faster and saves 15 energy. >.< The only "flaw" I consider in this run is doing kraid before LN, losing around ~3.5 seconds. Still a yes vote despite this simply because of the hassle and how inferior it is. Few-framers are not worth pointing out at all, as they don't matter because they can be deducted to necessary refill delays/manipulation.
Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect. Hero says: Yeah bro, I almost went super saiyan once My SM-RBO Current Project(s): 1)I don't TAS anymore! Pay me!
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
RT55-J: yeah, but normally when you land from a jump you lose the bluesuit, right? For the rerecords: if the TASers spent 4 hours a day, every day, for two years, each, then at a million rerecords that'd be about one rerecord every 20 seconds. Does that seem plausible?
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Joined: 6/3/2008
Posts: 136
Location: US
If you abuse the morph/unmorph you can retain the bluesuit after jumping. And 1 re-record every 20 seconds, sometimes I do more than that, and other times no, so I'd say yes that does seem correct in my case. Can't say the same for everyone else tho. I always find myself needed double the amount of savestates available. >.>
Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect. Hero says: Yeah bro, I almost went super saiyan once My SM-RBO Current Project(s): 1)I don't TAS anymore! Pay me!
Skilled player (1430)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
Derakon wrote:
For the rerecords: if the TASers spent 4 hours a day, every day, for two years, each, then at a million rerecords that'd be about one rerecord every 20 seconds. Does that seem plausible?
Yes. Now I'm pretty sure they didn't work for 4 hours every day on average, so I don't know how plausible 1000000+ rerecords is, but one rerecord every 20 seconds would be very little for me at least (while it probably wouldn't for others, it all depends on how you work).
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
adelikat wrote:
In fact this is one of the manliest movies on the site!
What is manly about it exactly? I'd say quite the opposite, it's one of the most womanly movies on the site, given the woman was half German half Russian cleaning lady on steroids.
Cpadolf wrote:
and it'll take longer for me to aquire expert player rank which is the most important thing of all on this site!!!
You have already attained it.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Expert player (2578)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Umm... be an Expert Player seems good, but what's needed to become an Expert Member?
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Bribes usually work well.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Regarding this run: I enjoyed it very much, it was great to see each room so carefully optimized. I was entertained at how many tricky situations were entered, but Samus left each one without a scratch. It's nice to see running around enemies and their projectiles Gradius style. Phantoon and Kraid were excellent, never have I imagined such a quick an accurate fight. It was also a pleasure to see exact ammo used. Also great to see some shinespark leftovers killing the gold pirates. I also enjoyed the new route, which very cleverly avoids having to repeat areas. I think I saw less repeats of any given room in this run than any other. Nice to see Gravity prior to Varia as well. Also, we don't need no stinkin` space jump or high jumps. It was also nice to see a run take advantage of charge bombs, and charge power bombs. As well as other nice techniques to do things like avoid damage. Also nice choice charging to the right instead of to the left in the last shinespark, not something I anticipated. I don't think a yes vote does this run justice. I would've also enjoyed more antics that paid attention to what was going on in the background, instead of just hopping and wobbling. See JXQ's run for some ideas, like how he made Samus feaking out about Mother Brain's saliva, or rolling out of the way of the big head drop. Also, I missed Crocomire dancing, where's the fun? ;)
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Banned User
Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
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omnipotententity: how's everything going with the encoding lately? I heard you're still in the driver's seat of that. ^_^
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
He posted it earlier in the thread. Good job on the reading comprehension there. ;)
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
ATTENTION: I AM AN IDIOT. The aspect ratio is fixed on the mkv. You can download the new, fixed file at http://engelsish.org/avi/supermetroid-tasv4-taco,kriole.mkv (yes, the exact same link as last time.)
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Skilled player (1430)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
Nach wrote:
You have already attained it.
I'll lose it again, though, once this is published and my ingame time run gets obsoleted :(
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Cpadolf wrote:
Nach wrote:
You have already attained it.
I'll lose it again, though, once this is published and my ingame time run gets obsoleted :(
Then get to work on another amazing video. If you need suggestions I can supply a couple of games I'd like to see you do.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 14776
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [1368] SNES Super Metroid by Taco, Kriole in 38:41.52
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Cpadolf wrote:
Nach wrote:
You have already attained it.
I'll lose it again, though, once this is published and my ingame time run gets obsoleted :(
Now that I have published this movie, you have indeed lost your expert player rank. It has been a pleasure crushing your hopes and dreams.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Skilled player (1430)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
For the movie description it should be noted that it was actually hero of the day who came up with the new route, though Taco and Kriole might have tweaked it.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare