Post subject: Half-Life TAS Mod - TAS-Life by TimEh
Joined: 4/18/2006
Posts: 179
Location: East Petersburg, PA
I hope you guys are keeping watch of this... http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,10168.msg312384.html#msg312384 Here is the ModDB on it: http://www.moddb.com/mods/tas-life/ Showcase 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlIDIkEv56M Showcase 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f01fw9egES0 Showcase 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiiosTcuWYs Showcase 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyCcYHAwgu8 Showcase 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn6pGCrubwA TimEh seems to be going all out with it. So far, it seems to have advanced slowdown, frame advance and laser sight aiming while paused. There is more coming like an advanced HUD that shows a number of game related values, and, hopefully, re-recording. It looks to be a great step in the right direction for PC TASing. If it flushes out well in the GoldSource engine, maybe someone could make it for the Source engine? Christ, that would be a ton of games/mods you could TAS for the PC. I'm not associated with the project; just a follower promoting it.
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Might have to add a PC catagory in the 'Movie publications by system' in the near future.
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For that to happen you would have first to get the site accepting input file... its not for tomorow youll see that in effect. That mod looks promising, i hope it get rerecord support soon :p
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What's going to be the workaround for Source games crashing when loads are saved during timescale/framestep? (Since that was stopped us from working on a Portal TAS a while ago.)
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ya im still in the planning stages of rewriting the demo format to be legal(by this site anyways) by just being a series of inputs. I assume ill have alot of trouble trying to get it from desync'n. That is even if the random seed table stuff can be 100% exact every time by only giving time based key/mouse inputs. havnt looked much into the random stuff, and how it might effect a input based demo
What's going to be the workaround for Source games crashing when loads are saved during timescale/framestep?
no clue. Ive only been working on TAS'n HL1. But when theres a will theres always a way. You ever try duplicating the crash while debugging to find out why it does it? That would be a good place to start
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It doesn't duplicate so much as do it every single time. For Source, you can go into the menu and change the frame rate of the game, or set frame rate to 0, and set a button to frame skip by 1. (essentially, frame advance and slowdown.) However, the game is in a strange kind of state during these 2 modes of play (since you can't precisely pause/unpause, or change the framerate during gameplay.) When the framerate is changed, the games freeze when trying to load any maps (which is what happens when you use load, it tries to load the map the same way as if you were starting the level, just from the point where you made the quicksave.) Now it gets trickier in that, if I remember correctly (demonstrate, correct me if I make a mistake) but there's randomness that occurs during loading of saves. For our current emulators, there's frame count, and when you make a savestate, loading the savestate will bring you to the exact frame that you saved from, with the game being entirely the same. In Portal, there were two inaccuracies. One, sometimes objects (in what we tested, an energy ball) that if we loaded successfully and told the game to pause as soon as a load was saved, it'd randomly be in slightly different positions. Secondly, in order to work around the game crashing, we tried creating a script where while the game was in timescale or framestep, to deactivate it, load the save, and reactivate frame step as soon as the load was complete. Now the problem is that a random number of frames would pass by before the game was loaded. If we told the script "when pressing X button, deactivate framestep, load save Y, wait 5 frames, activate framestep" then the game would occasionally crash. Sometimes the load would work without crashing, but we wouldn't be on the exact frame that the save was made, and sometimes frame step was activated too many frames early and the game would crash. We couldn't identify the source of the random frames, so we had essentially savestates that would either cause the game to crash or would load us on the wrong frame count. There's two other problems I encountered, with Portal specifically. One, the game runs at 300 frames per second. (Was it 300? I forget, but something really high like that.) Portal's camera works like this: where your mouse is pointing, you turn and look. This would, using frame advance only, create the most spastic camera work ever, with 300 crazy camera movements per second. Because during framestep you can't hold down the button, you can't create smooth movement, and the end movie would most likely cause anyone to throw up from motion sickness. Like this. The other problem with such a massively high framerate is that since you can't hold down the frame advance button, you have to press the frame advance button 300 times in order to progress just one second. And the frames don't load very fast in framestep. So it'd be a very, very slow process. One other thing I forgot to mention. When we worked with Portal, we used Source's own built-in movie record features, which essentially works exactly the same as input files, in that you can send the movie file to someone else's computer and have the game play through inside the game itself, just like our emulators do.
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adelikat
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TimEh wrote:
Might have to add a PC catagory in the 'Movie publications by system' in the near future.
Sounds promising, good luck. I hope to have to work with you on getting the site ready for this^^
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Tub
Joined: 6/25/2005
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Looks pretty cool so far. The biggest problem with input based movie files would probably be to guarantee a stable frame rate. IIRC there was no way to do that from inside the mod (or did that change with the Steam port?). Meh, it's been too long since I did HL modding. There's also a fair deal of stuttering in the final video, we may eventually need a tool that generates smooth movements for perfect bunnies and better visuals.
m00
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The idea of a pointer which shows where the camera will look at in the next frame sounds like an ingenious idea which ought to make a TASer's life much easier. You don't have to do trial-and-error for each frame, but plan a lot ahead when you see exactly how the camera will end up oriented if you advance to the next frame. Could this idea be implemented in some FPS games for the N64 and PlayStation?
Mitjitsu
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Warp wrote:
The idea of a pointer which shows where the camera will look at in the next frame sounds like an ingenious idea Could this idea be implemented in some FPS games for the N64 and PlayStation?
I doubt it, since you're using analougue controls. It should be possible to do on the Wii.
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It's not about analogue or digital controls, it's about absolute (coordinate-based) vs. relative (vector-based) positioning.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Mitjitsu
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I was refering more to the fact that PC runs use mouses, which with practice you can achieve far faster and more accurate movements compared to using an analogue controller.
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My point is that mice are analogue controllers, too.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
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the problem is not the type of input. its the fact when frame advance with an emulator, your actually stopping the code from executing. And you couldnt do any cursor rendering while the game is frozen. The way this can work with this HL mod is that even though we are paused, frames are still being drawn. So with that, and some dirty hacks, your able to render additional stuff.
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Skipping introduction...
Comicalflop wrote:
There's two other problems I encountered, with Portal specifically. One, the game runs at 300 frames per second. (Was it 300? I forget, but something really high like that.) Portal's camera works like this: where your mouse is pointing, you turn and look. This would, using frame advance only, create the most spastic camera work ever, with 300 crazy camera movements per second. Because during framestep you can't hold down the button, you can't create smooth movement, and the end movie would most likely cause anyone to throw up from motion sickness. Like this.
When standing still (so the direction of movement doesn't matter), could a script be made to move the mouse between two points when waiting for the gun to reload?