Well I still stand by my opinion that the rules state that once a japanese run was submitted the next run has the right to use a japanese rom, too.
Care to give a reference to that?
(Besides, what is important is not what the letter of an obscure rule might say when sufficiently interpreted to support your personal opinion. What truly is important is what the spirit of the rule is, in other words, what its intended meaning was when it was written. If the letter of the rule is ambiguous, the proper action is not to start rule-lawyering, but to fix the rule to be less ambiguous. It has been expressed many, many times in the past that the general rules is to prefer the English version of a game, and that exceptions can be granted in very special circumstances, and that such exceptions do not nullify the generic rule.)
If there already is a published video, do not use a different ROM than what it uses, unless the new ROM is obviously better, and you can show how it should be compared to the existing movie.
Pretty clear isn't it? English is prefered in general, but you should use the same rom the last published run used unless there is a good reason not to. And there really isn't.
And yeah that is not only the letter of the rule, but also the spirit. Just because people don't like a japanese OoT run doesn't make it any less true that this run should have been in japanese.
Glitcher wrote:
Any chance we'll see an MKV of this any time soon?
I'm working on one. I still have some audio problems, but I think I found a fix. Though it will probably be mp4, not mkv...
If there already is a published video, do not use a different ROM than what it uses, unless the new ROM is obviously better, and you can show how it should be compared to the existing movie.
Pretty clear isn't it? English is prefered in general, but you should use the same rom the last published run used unless there is a good reason not to. And there really isn't.
And yeah that is not only the letter of the rule, but also the spirit. Just because people don't like a japanese OoT run doesn't make it any less true that this run should have been in japanese.
The "spirit" of the rule is that the previous run was accepted with a non-(U) ROM for a good reason (the ones listed in the rules), and that a new run should stick to that ROM for the same reasons, unless there are better reasons to change it.
That means that you would have to argue that a new (J) run should be published for the same reasons as the previous one. Remember what the reasons for publishing the previous one was. Can you claim the same reasons for a new (J) run made specifically for tasvideos.org? No? Then you are breaking the spirit of the rule.
The (J) run was not accepted because the ROM is better than the (U) ROM. It was an exceptional circumstance. You can't use the same reason for a new (J) run.
It could very well be explained in two ways, and depending on which side you are on, you'll favor one of the following:
1. As the Japanese ROM has been accepted, and there isn't any good reason to use the USA ROM over the Japanese one, from that point on, the movies submitted should be made using the Japanese ROM.
2. Up until the much-discussed movie, the USA ROM had been used. So, from that point on, all submitted movies should use the USA ROM. If you pick this point of view, accepting the Japanese run was a fault, and this run is a correction.
The Japanese run was accepted merely because of the run, and there were no good reasons the Japanese ROM was better. You should understand that an exception was made and the run was accepted, not the ROM.
Anyway, now that I've explained the reasons the staff has done what they've done (at least, how I understood it. If I'm wrong, I'm sure they'll correct me), I think we really should stop having this discussions. It has already been going on for to long (as had the original), and all decisions have already been made, I doubt the staff will come back on them.
If there already is a published video, do not use a different ROM than what it uses, unless the new ROM is obviously better, and you can show how it should be compared to the existing movie.
Pretty clear isn't it? English is prefered in general, but you should use the same rom the last published run used unless there is a good reason not to. And there really isn't.
And yeah that is not only the letter of the rule, but also the spirit. Just because people don't like a japanese OoT run doesn't make it any less true that this run should have been in japanese.
The "spirit" of the rule is that the previous run was accepted with a non-(U) ROM for a good reason (the ones listed in the rules), and that a new run should stick to that ROM for the same reasons, unless there are better reasons to change it.
Uh how one can make up "spirits" so randomly. Nowhere in the rules does it even hint to that "spirit".
I'm sure the spirit was to keep roms consistent so you can compare runs better. With acepting the J run tasvideos fucked themselfs into making the J standart, since it's the fastest rom to use.
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2224
Location: Georgia, USA
Slowking, look at the judging verdict given to the last published run on the J ROM. That ruling explicitly stipulates that the use of J is an exception and that a run on the U ROM can obsolete it. Thus, at least in this case, the language debate is fairly settled, and the site certainly didn't screw itself over. I don't have a comment in general on the U vs. J debate.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically.
Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.)
Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html)
Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature!
Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Uh how one can make up "spirits" so randomly. Nowhere in the rules does it even hint to that "spirit".
By reading the context. The section starts with "you should prefer the (U) ROM unless you have a good reason to use something else". Then immediately after it states that the same ROM should be used for subsequent runs. Why? Well, because if the non-(U) ROM was accepted previously, there are good reasons for that, and the same reasons apply to the new run as well.
In other words, the same reasons of ROM choice apply to both, the existing run and the new submitted run.
But this particular case was exceptional: The (U) run was accepted because of special circumstances. You would have to argue the same special circumstances for a new (U) run. Can you? No, you can't. Hence there is a better reason to switch back to (U): Namely, because the rules say so (iow. the (U) version should be preferred).
I'm sure the spirit was to keep roms consistent so you can compare runs better.
You refuse to accept the concept of "exceptional case". Accepting the (J) run was an exception to the rules.
With acepting the J run tasvideos fucked themselfs into making the J standart, since it's the fastest rom to use.
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2174
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
Slowking wrote:
Warp wrote:
Slowking wrote:
If there already is a published video, do not use a different ROM than what it uses, unless the new ROM is obviously better, and you can show how it should be compared to the existing movie.
Pretty clear isn't it? English is prefered in general, but you should use the same rom the last published run used unless there is a good reason not to. And there really isn't.
And yeah that is not only the letter of the rule, but also the spirit. Just because people don't like a japanese OoT run doesn't make it any less true that this run should have been in japanese.
The "spirit" of the rule is that the previous run was accepted with a non-(U) ROM for a good reason (the ones listed in the rules), and that a new run should stick to that ROM for the same reasons, unless there are better reasons to change it.
Uh how one can make up "spirits" so randomly. Nowhere in the rules does it even hint to that "spirit".
I'm sure the spirit was to keep roms consistent so you can compare runs better. With acepting the J run tasvideos fucked themselfs into making the J standart, since it's the fastest rom to use.
One of the reasons the J rom was accepted last time was that the run was made for nicovideo and some of our members decided to contact him saying that he should submit his run here... This was discussed in the OoT topic...
Imagine how you would feel if you are told that your run should be submitted somewhere... and all you receive is bashings for using a wrong language rom.
This is exactly what I meant with my previous post in this thread. But the decision was that the J rom would have exclusive exception in that submission only and that the U rom would still be the rom to use when running OoT.
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
Warepire wrote:
One of the reasons the J rom was accepted last time was that the run was made for nicovideo and some of our members decided to contact him saying that he should submit his run here... This was discussed in the OoT topic...
^ This.
Now, can you guys please stop bringing this up? This topic is for the discussion of Bloobiebla's run, which is an improvement to the currently published run and uses the U ROM. There are no problems here.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Well runs can be submitted as much as they want. But when a run gets published the rom it was made on becomes the default (if the rom is clearly faster). It doesn't matter how the submission came to be. I mean really, this site has rules and if you are not going to honor them on a whim, you might as well not have them. That's what pisses me off about the whole thing.
I would say that an inability to recognize when your current approach is not making progress is not a good character trait.
And "sane" is relative, for that matter. One of the problems with being crazy is that you can't necessarily tell that your own brain is screwing up...
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
I never said I was sane. :p
But I'm not going to quit something just because it doesn't make any progress when I know it's right.
I'm not going to stop to advocate legalizing rugs, because there is virtually no progress and I'm not going to stop to be in favor of gay marrige just because it's hard. If everybody would just give up and not fight for what is right, black people would still be in the back of the bus and homosexuals would be killed on the street. Nuff said.
I never said I was sane. :p
But I'm not going to quit something just because it doesn't make any progress when I know it's right.
I'm not going to stop to advocate legalizing rugs, because there is virtually no progress and I'm not going to stop to be in favor of gay marrige just because it's hard. If everybody would just give up and not fight for what is right, black people would still be in the back of the bus and homosexuals would be killed on the street. Nuff said.
I cannot even begin to point out how many things are wrong with this post.
First of all, rugs are already legal. ;)
Secondly, I'm not sure what marrige is.
My third point is a more legitimate concern, and focuses less on petty spelling errors. The main problem with this post is that you are making a HUGE false equivalency argument. Are you really trying to make a connection between a video game speedrun website and the civil rights movement? Do you really not see how that does not logically support your argument whatsoever? This is on a MUCH smaller scale than something like the civil rights movement. The two things simply cannot be compared, and I find it offensive that you attempt to do so. Let's try and keep our arguments on the proper level, instead of desperately grasping for something totally irrelevant to try and prove our points.
Well runs can be submitted as much as they want. But when a run gets published the rom it was made on becomes the default (if the rom is clearly faster). It doesn't matter how the submission came to be. I mean really, this site has rules and if you are not going to honor them on a whim, you might as well not have them. That's what pisses me off about the whole thing.
You are arguing that you know the intent of the written rules better than the people who wrote those rules.
Just because a rule may be ambiguous doesn't mean it has to be taken literally and contrary to its original intent. It means that the rule should be reworded to be less ambiguous and reflect better the intended meaning. You are, however, arguing that your interpretation of the rule must be followed because it has been written in such way.
I have already said that it's the intent of the rule (ie. its spirit) that matters, not its letter. The people who wrote and impose the rules ought to know what they meant when the wrote them.
There's a term for people who insist in imposing literal (but wrong) meanings of rulesets, but I would be invoking Godwin's law if I wrote it out, so I'll skip it.
I never said I was sane. :p
But I'm not going to quit something just because it doesn't make any progress when I know it's right.
I'm not going to stop to advocate legalizing rugs, because there is virtually no progress and I'm not going to stop to be in favor of gay marrige just because it's hard. If everybody would just give up and not fight for what is right, black people would still be in the back of the bus and homosexuals would be killed on the street. Nuff said.
I don't know about your sanity, but you are hilarious with that funny typo. You have a signature worthy quote.
But I'm not going to quit something just because it doesn't make any progress when I know it's right.
I'm not going to stop to advocate legalizing rugs, because there is virtually no progress and I'm not going to stop to be in favor of gay marrige just because it's hard.
Not what I was suggesting. I was saying that if your approach is not making any progress, you need to find a new way to tackle things. You should know by now that arguing with Warp about rules is a good way to get absolutely nothing accomplished. ;)
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
My third point is a more legitimate concern, and focuses less on petty spelling errors. The main problem with this post is that you are making a HUGE false equivalency argument. Are you really trying to make a connection between a video game speedrun website and the civil rights movement? Do you really not see how that does not logically support your argument whatsoever? This is on a MUCH smaller scale than something like the civil rights movement. The two things simply cannot be compared, and I find it offensive that you attempt to do so. Let's try and keep our arguments on the proper level, instead of desperately grasping for something totally irrelevant to try and prove our points.
I'm german. We live for exaggerations. Deal with it.
Weren't you the super retard in this discussion the last time around too, Slowking? If so, know when to stop.
XD What is this, some thinly-veiled "threat"? And calling him a retard isn't gonna get the discussion to stop, genius.
Slowi is totally right, but there's actually no point in trying to change anyone's mind anymore.
ex·cep·tion
[ik-sep-shuhn]
–noun
something excepted; an instance or case not conforming to the general rule.
How hard is it to understand that they made an exception? An exception means that, as far as the excepted thing is concerned, rules do not apply. Please, stop whining about how accepting this USA ROM is contradictory to the rules.
XD What is this, some thinly-veiled "threat"? (Calling down another's judgement), (Judgement)
(Additional trolling)
Definitely a threat. In fact, suggestions on an internet forum turn out to be threats about 80% of the time. To add to this evidence, Fabian once swam across the Atlantic and punched me right in the face because I said that Jenna Fischer was meh.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
I'm not sure who split the thread, but I don't think moderators should be dissing forum members in such manner. I changed the topic title to something less offense to slowking.
While I 100% disagree with his opinion, I don't think he needs to be disparaged.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
XD What is this, some thinly-veiled "threat"? (Calling down another's judgement), (Judgement)
(Additional trolling)
Definitely a threat. In fact, suggestions on an internet forum turn out to be threats about 80% of the time. To add to this evidence, Fabian once swam across the Atlantic and punched me right in the face because I said that Jenna Fischer was meh.
This is all true. Specifically, the threat part is particularly true.
If there already is a published video, do not use a different ROM than what it uses
Time for some mindblowing logic!
>>If there already is a published video#1140: GuanoBowl's N64 The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time in 2:33:24.72>>, do not use a different ROM than what it uses#2793: Bloobiebla's N64 The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time "Any%" in 56:54.20Relevant picture:Of note in that picture:
USA v1.0
(U) (V1.0) [!]
Sup Slowking. Rules don't says you gota use the version of the previously published video. Just the same version as a published video.
Pretty clear isn't it? English is prefered in general, but you should use the same rom a published run used unless there is a good reason not to. And there really isn't.
Which is to say, Bloobiela followed the letter of the rules. Who needs spirit, when you have letters?
Of note in that picture:
USA v1.0
(U) (V1.0) [!]
Sup Slowking. Rules don't says you gota use the version of the previously published video. Just the same version as a published video.
Pretty clear isn't it? English is prefered in general, but you should use the same rom a published run used unless there is a good reason not to. And there really isn't.
Which is to say, Bloobiela followed the letter of the rules. Who needs spirit, when you have letters?
