Legend of Zelda "Swordless" (first quest)

  • Aims for fastest time
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Manipulates luck
  • Uses a game restart sequence
  • No deaths
  • No predefined saves
  • Genre: adventure
  • Emulator: FCEUX 2.1.4a
This is a 86.5 second improvement over jprofit22's published movie.

Restrictions

There are two restrictions that this run follows:
  • Don't pick up the sword until all triforce pieces are collected.
  • Only use the sword during the fight against Ganon.

Improvements

jprofit22's level order was very solid. I tested some interesting alternatives, but the level order from the previous TAS turned out to be the fastest. There is a big difference though in how money and items that have to be bought are obtained. After the 30 rupees, Link moves on to the secret 100 rupee den in the top right of the map. With the extra money a candle is bought, and bombs are obtained from an enemy using the candle. This saves both the money and the trip needed to buy bombs. It also avoids gambling altogether (gambling costs more time than you might think, as the old man has to recite his text every time you enter his cave). The place where jprofit22 collected the candle in his TAS was also a little offroute, so time was saved there also.
This route change also had some negative effects. Saving puts back the candle in the inventory, which is why I collected the raft before the level 3 triforce piece. After getting the ladder, I do have to save though, which means an extra weapon switch. It also meant that I had killed one enemy more than jprofit22 at the start of the game. Enemy drops depend heavily on the amount of enemies killed, and not having a sword really limits the possibilities of killing extra enemies. I had a little worse randomness than jprofit22 due to having this extra enemy killed and had to get bombs in rooms where no enemies are usually killed twice.
In total, this 'route change' saved about 35 seconds.
The other ~50 seconds come from optimizations throughout the entire run: better manipulation of the enemies, enemy drops, damage boost, avoiding having to switch weapons, bomb management, etc.
I also picked up one heart container. The positive thing is that you are more flexible with your damage boosts, the negative thing is that you have to fill up four hearts every time you get a triforce (the triforce refills it for you, which costs more time than a damage boost would save). For instance, After the reset before getting the level 4 triforce, having an extra heart container was only bad, as I had to pick up an extra heart which I wouldn't have had to if I only had 3 hearts (resetting starts you off with 3 hearts). The added flexibility however payed off in the end, and I do think having it saved time. I however did not pick up a second heart container in level 6 when I had the chance... I think this would have done more harm than good.
If you want to know more about glitches, techniques, randomness, etc, there is a detailed discussion on it in the Second Quest submission text.

Credits

I want to both thank and apologize to jprofit22. He did a really good job on his TAS, both the planning and execution. I did not plan on TASing this, but when I checked some possibilities at the start of the run, I was hooked. Zelda is one of my favorite games to TAS, and once I found the semi routechange, I wanted to keep going. I couldn't have completed this TAS so quickly without often looking at jprofit22's TAS.
Enjoy!

Flygon: Added YouTube module.

Nach: Accepting as a nice improvement to an existing run.


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15583
Location: 127.0.0.1
Expert player (2567)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 830
86.5 second, awesome!
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
Very nice! I'll encode this in HD. Yes vote, of course.
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Note to everyone who plans to encode: I don't want to see Link moving OVER the doors in the dungeons. The encode of the current Swordless TAS has it, and that looks awful. config > videos... > uncheck "allow more than 8 sprites per scanline"
Morrison
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 8/2/2006
Posts: 195
Location: USA
Baxter wrote:
Note to everyone who plans to encode: I don't want to see Link moving OVER the doors in the dungeons. The encode of the current Swordless TAS has it, and that looks awful. config > videos... > uncheck "allow more than 8 sprites per scanline"
Agreed. The TAS looks solid! Well played.
twitch.tv/Retrogaming2084
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Baxter wrote:
Note to everyone who plans to encode: I don't want to see Link moving OVER the doors in the dungeons. The encode of the current Swordless TAS has it, and that looks awful. config > videos... > uncheck "allow more than 8 sprites per scanline"
Ugh, someone put a hack in the emulator to disregard range-time over? Why???
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Because sometimes it causes undesirable flicker. It happens that in LoZ it was used to fake Z-occlusion, so it's desirable here.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Derakon wrote:
Because sometimes it causes undesirable flicker. It happens that in LoZ it was used to fake Z-occlusion, so it's desirable here.
Uh, I'm pretty certain Baxter pointed out that the hack is not desirable here. It makes Link look like he's jumping over walls instead of walking through passageways.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Skilled player (1326)
Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Nach wrote:
Derakon wrote:
Because sometimes it causes undesirable flicker. It happens that in LoZ it was used to fake Z-occlusion, so it's desirable here.
Uh, I'm pretty certain Baxter pointed out that the hack is not desirable here. It makes Link look like he's jumping over walls instead of walking through passageways.
I think Derakon meant that the sprite limit was desirable, not the hack to remove it.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Player (51)
Joined: 1/19/2009
Posts: 100
Heh, well it was nice while it lasted however short that may have been... I should've known this would happen when the master got home from vacation. I've already seen most of this run so it gets an auto yes from me. I'll watch the rest later on. Congrats and nice job Baxter!
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Nach wrote:
Derakon wrote:
Because sometimes it causes undesirable flicker. It happens that in LoZ it was used to fake Z-occlusion, so it's desirable here.
Uh, I'm pretty certain Baxter pointed out that the hack is not desirable here. It makes Link look like he's jumping over walls instead of walking through passageways.
I think Derakon meant that the sprite limit was desirable, not the hack to remove it.
If he meant that, then he didn't answer my question. Why did someone make a hack to disable RTO?
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
So we can pretend we're playing the game on a more advanced system with fewer flaws!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
Nach wrote:
If he meant that, then he didn't answer my question. Why did someone make a hack to disable RTO?
Ever play Summar Carnival '92 - Recca?... lets just say that the game places absolutely no regard for the sprite scanline limit... or the sprite limit as a whole.
Publisher
Joined: 4/23/2009
Posts: 1283
Baxter wrote:
Note to everyone who plans to encode: I don't want to see Link moving OVER the doors in the dungeons. The encode of the current Swordless TAS has it, and that looks awful. config > videos... > uncheck "allow more than 8 sprites per scanline"
Wow, I did NOT notice this, since it seems to only happen on doors going up or down. Now I know better. Thanks!
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player (907)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
Voted yes. This was a well made run. I'm very happy that the Swordless Challenge category was created, if only to give more meaning to Swordless Link's username. :) A.C. ******
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
Since no one else has picked up on encoding it, I'll pick up the slack.
Banned User
Joined: 5/22/2010
Posts: 80
Location: WAR TOWN, Georgia (USA)
I can't reconsider my vote from the last run, but after reading everything several times and understanding how the game is played, I got to say nice improvement! [my vote is pending until an MP4 is pre-released] *cough* flygon *cough*
Do I look like someone who really cares what God thinks?! "GI Joe: The Atlantis Factor" - May be improved in the future.
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Thanks for the encode, Flygon! The run looked good, and it's an improvement on a published run. No problems here. Now, who's going to do a swordless second quest? ;)
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 150
Nice improvment!
Player (51)
Joined: 1/19/2009
Posts: 100
Derakon wrote:
Now, who's going to do a swordless second quest? ;)
That seems like it would be a chore! :D Four categories for 1 game is so excessive! lol
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3573)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Baxter wrote:
Note to everyone who plans to encode: I don't want to see Link moving OVER the doors in the dungeons. The encode of the current Swordless TAS has it, and that looks awful. config > videos... > uncheck "allow more than 8 sprites per scanline"
Whomever is encoding FCEUX runs, you should not be using that option anyway! We strive for authenticity in our official encodes, and the NES can't handle more than 8 sprites per scanline.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Player (52)
Joined: 10/6/2005
Posts: 138
Location: Oregon
So this was pretty rad. I don't really like the "don't get the sword until you have to" thing, since it seems arbitrary to me, but whatever. There's not really a better solution. Related to that, how come you don't get the sword at the beginning and then just not use it? Why wait until the end to retrieve the sword? You're already self-imposing the "don't press A until Ganon's room" rule anyway, so why not just self-impose it from the beginning?
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
I asked people's opinions about the exact restrictions. Responses like these made me decide to impose not collecting the sword until the full triforce is collected as a restriction:
Derakon wrote:
Stylistically it looks better if you don't have the sword for the vast majority of the game. At least, that's my opinion. This would be a speed/entertainment tradeoff.
Inzult wrote:
...getting the sword sooner is less entertaining. Maybe only subjectively less entertaining, but I'm pretty sure actually having nothing in the A button box looks more interesting than having a sword there and never pressing A.
It also was something Jprofit22 did in his run, and I didn't want it to seem like this improvement came from changing the restrictions.