Submission Text Full Submission Page Publication Page

Game Information

Earthbound is a game where the hero, Ness, is just an average 13 year old kid from the suburbs... until the night a meteor lands in his backyard. The local wildlife starts attacking him, he begins to realize psychic powers, and a mysterious messenger from the future tells him that he must save the world, but before he faces any of that Ness has to change out of his pajamas. With a baseball bat as his weapon, Ness begins a quest to stop an evil alien presence from destroying the world. He will later meet with Paula, a girl with strong psychic abilities, Jeff, a young genius with the ability to repair broken things, and Poo, a prince from far, far away who also happens to have strong psychic abilities.

About the run

  • Uses death to save time
  • Uses warps
  • Manipulates luck
  • Abuses programming errors in the game
  • Genre: RPG
Used emulator: Snes9x rerecording 1.51 v6
The following comments are written by mugg: I know many game series only because I played Super Smash Bros. Melee on the Nintendo Gamecube, a beat 'em up featuring many Nintendo characters and the prequel for SSBB. I got to know F-zero, Starfox, Kirby, and of course I got to know Earthbound. I always wanted to play through this game at some point and after I did so I felt the need to TAS this game. I simply loved the graphics, the comic-style and the music in this game. But a full run seemed to be very long and the glitched category was already well optimized. I wasn't very knowledgeable with the game either. Always with an eye for possible improvements for popular Nintendo games, I watched many Youtube videos until I saw the Tent glitch in Earthbound. It was said that when you check a certain place in the tent in Threed, the game would behave very strangely and sometimes it would even glitch up. People had written comments stating that it also triggered the debug menu #1 in this game so I thought this was my lucky day. I began researching the glitch, checking places in the out-of-bounds area and making a map for it, telling people like Nitrodon and Halamantariel about it and getting things started. However, I wasn't able to record this glitch in snes9x 1.43 (because playback behaved differently than recording mode), so this stopped progress for a while until I was said that it worked properly in snes9x 1.51. I tried it with the Japanese version, Mother 2, and it seemed to be more glitch-friendly and more likely to trigger the debug menu so this version was used. Pirohiko teamed up with me and I want to thank him for his work. When I TASed a section of this game, he would often improve it by a few frames and he is also much better at manipulating luck and did basicly all the battles. He wrote a very useful lua script regarding RNG behavior. When we reached the debug menu, things got a bit difficult since we couldn't directly go to the credits with it. More details on this below...
The debug menu glitch worked differently when using different versions of the game on different versions of snes9x. But pirohiko [dead link removed] recorded himself testing the tent glitch on the Japanese version on a real SNES and it behaves like snes9x 1.51 with the Japanese ROM.

Tricks

Optimizing positioning

This game has subpixel carry-over. This means that approaching a door a bit differently can be done in order to optimize the subpixels.

Luck-manipulation

The game uses a flow of 14592 sequent RNG values which it will run through during playing the game. Those values determine the appearance of enemies, item drops, SMAAAASH!! attacks, NPC behavior and other things. Having text being written onscreen will cause the flow of RNG to move with each character written. When the game loads new enemies onto the map, it will shift the flow of RNG too.

Overworld

In order to skip enemies or to have specific enemies appear or to have NPCs not move into one's path, one can pause the game by pressing "B" or "select". The RNG will be called each frame during pausing. The game uses barriers to determine if enemies should appear. Once you walk across such a barrier, enemies may appear and it will shift the RNG a bit. This is very useful in Giant Step since we can shift the RNG very efficiently here by walking across barriers repeatedly. This trick is even more useful when walking on an intersection of barriers. We needed to do this in Giant Step in order to get 6 speed and 24 offense from the Gigantic Ant boss battle so we could knock out every police officer with one SMAAAASH!! only. We needed to shift the RNG for an entire 700 steps which explains the random walking in Giant Steps...

Battle

Changing the selection during a battle will change the RNG. This can be used to manipulate SMAAAASH!! attacks. Since you can change the selection only every other frame it is better to manipulate the first SMAAAAASH!! before the battle, by pausing the game.

Skipping a trigger spot (Stutter walk)

It is possible to skip spots which trigger an event by moving through it every other frame. This was used in order to skip the Starman Jr. battle and the Soundstone from Buzz Buzz.

Walk through cliffs

You can walk through certain types of cliffs with proper subpixel positioning. See this section for more detail. It was used in order to skip Twoson.

Tent glitch (Debug menu)

In the circus tent in Threed, position yourself into the wall on the right, below the door. If you are in the correct spot, try to check the area and the dialoge should be delayed. You might end up warping to some place, freezing your game, causing graphical glitches, seeing garbage dialogue or triggering the debug menu. The latter is interesting from a speedrunning point of view since you can use the debug menu in order to complete the game very quickly with it. The debug menu occurs more likely on the Japanese version of the game (Mother 2). I wasn't able to trigger it even once on the US version, however, people made comments stating in English language that they triggered the debug menu so I'm assuming that it may work on the US version.
When you check the glitch area in the tent, there are two primary glitch messages that are very likely to appear eventually. One message would prevent you from proceeding and eventually freezes your game, with the graphics glitched up and the Arcade BGM. The other will change the music to the game-over BGM often and it will produce many invisible text boxes. Depending on the timing and on how long and how often you press "L", "A" or "R" the 'next' invisible text box may or may not appear. If it doesn't appear you basicly failed the glitch. During the first two invisible text boxes, there is a tiny chance of glitching up the game (in that it gives you a bicycle and plays the bicycle BGM or warping you somewhere while freezing the game and similar things). Once you reach the third invisible text box, the debug menu will eventually come after ~10.000 frames of auto-firing "L" and "A" alternatedly. I tested this glitch thoroughly and it would either get me to the debug menu on frame ~77000, ~72000 or ~68000. I was able to change a 77000 outcome to 68000 by random input, but I wasn't able to get an even better outcome. The assumption was that the text would be read from some point of memory until it reaches the debug menu, but the text pointer (0x7e9979) didn't seem to affect anything. We went on as we couldn't reduce more time. The next problem was to get to the staff credits fast! We could go to different events throughout the games so we chose to go to event 70 (69 goes to Ness' house after the Staff credits, but playing the Staff credits instead of skipping them was prefered). It sends us to Saturn Valley with the game beaten, with Paula in the party, and all left to do was to talk to Ness' mother. But the game still seems to be glitched after using the debug menu. It may randomly crash, freeze but most likely it would warp us to Fourside's café with a lot of invisible dialogue to click away before we could proceed. After a lot of trying different strategies we used this strategy:
  1. Add Paula as a character
  2. Make Ness' HP run out
  3. Give him the 'diamondized' status ailment
    This makes the game behave like Ness has no HP but is still alive.
    This is needed to make a game-over sequence work later on.
  4. Make Paula's HP run out
  5. Give Paula the 'diamondized' status ailment
    The same for Paula...
  6. Give each party member as much Skip Sandwich DX as they can carry
    This is a special feature of the debug menu. After going to event 70, Ness loses his inventory items but we can still use a Skip Sandwich DX from Paula's inventory.
  7. Go to event '70'
  8. Game-Over (very rare and we tried to reduce lag as much as we could, but it always forced us to go back to the center of Saturn Valley...)
    We used death as a shortcut here, otherwise we would have had to walk home from Saturn Valley or Fourside.
  9. Walk home and finish the game
This page explains the features of the debug menu.

Possible improvements?

We wouldn't know of a confident way to improve this movie. However, it may be possible to set up a better randomness in the long run for Giant Step so we wouldn't need to spend much time towards manipulating the RNG there. But it is very hard since you can't predict how things are going to turn out. Seeing how random the tent glitch can act, it may be possible to abuse it further. Maybe someday we will be able to access the Staff credits a whole lot faster without the need of the debug menu at all? Maybe the waiting time for the debug menu can be shortened, but we tried our best to reduce it as much as we could already.

Closing words

Thanks to Nitrodon, Halamantariel, Scepheo, and others! Maybe more information will be added later.
Please feel free to ask questions since my complicated explanations may not be clear sometimes.
Flygon: Added YouTube module.
FractalFusion: Judging.
FractalFusion: This run uses a glitch which passes through a debug menu which cannot otherwise (as to our knowledge) be accessed by means apart from external codes. If the debug menu was easily accessed by an internal code, that would be a different story. As it stands, it can only be assumed as part of the glitch process, and it will be allowed.
In the apparently non-existent event that such an internal code is found later, the published run will be placed in the impure category and any further runs going through the debug menu will likely be rejected.
This run will be accepted for publication alongside the existing publication.

Show more

Hide
1 2 3 4 5 6
Posted: 9/6/2010 8:24 PM
Quote
Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Acheron86 wrote:
Now if the Konami code was a glitch, and it gave you superpowers? That's a different story. It's not an intentional button input under certain circumstances, now... it's become a chance occurance, the accidental access of code due to luck and random coding.
I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. Please read my example again. To recapitulate: The so-called "konami code" is an intentional cheat that Konami put into many of their games. It isn't just a random glitch that just happens to give you immunity or whatever the code does in a specific game. It has been deliberately coded into the game to give you that cheat. Using this kind of purposeful cheat is generally forbidden by the rules because it makes the TASing rather moot and pointless. Now, and this is the most important point, it doesn't matter how the konami code is being triggered, it's still forbidden. Even if you trigger it by abusing some glitch it doesn't make it any more acceptable. It's the cheat that is forbidden, not the way in which the cheat is triggered. In other words, it's not the "up up down down etc" key combination that is forbidden by the rules; it's triggering the cheat at all, whatever the means. Triggering it unconventionally doesn't change its status as a forbidden cheat. As I said in my previous post, even if Konami had disabled the key combination at the last minute (but left the routine itself intact), it wouldn't change anything. Likewise this debug menu is, rather obviously, in the exact same category as the konami code: It's a cheating routine deliberately coded into the game. Again, it doesn't matter how you are triggering it: You are still cheating. Of course the rules leave the door open for allowing exceptions, which is the interesting point of discussion here. However, in my personal opinion this debug menu thing sounds exactly like a "konami code" of sorts and should be considered in the exact same category.
Posted: 9/6/2010 8:41 PM
Quote
Acheron86
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
Thanks for clarifying. I think I follow you better. Categorically, I can understand the argument better. I'm still not sure I agree with your conclusion... there's still a definite distinction between a cheat routine being intentionally accessible vs. unintentionally accessible. Just the same, it's still triggering event flags in a very direct means, one that feels very "out of bounds". Walking through walls to trigger event flags, while bizarre, is a different category of glitch than directly picking what event flags are set from a menu. I don't think this should make the run unpublishable. I think it would definitely warrant a different category, or at least deserve a spot in the category of technical demonstration. That's the judges' call, of course... guess we'll see.
I will not use self-reference in my signature.
Posted: 9/6/2010 10:22 PM
Quote
DarkKobold
Skilled player (1652)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
Warp wrote:
Acheron86 wrote:
Now if the Konami code was a glitch, and it gave you superpowers? That's a different story. It's not an intentional button input under certain circumstances, now... it's become a chance occurance, the accidental access of code due to luck and random coding.
I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. Please read my example again. To recapitulate: The so-called "konami code" is an intentional cheat that Konami put into many of their games. It isn't just a random glitch that just happens to give you immunity or whatever the code does in a specific game. It has been deliberately coded into the game to give you that cheat. Using this kind of purposeful cheat is generally forbidden by the rules because it makes the TASing rather moot and pointless. Now, and this is the most important point, it doesn't matter how the konami code is being triggered, it's still forbidden. Even if you trigger it by abusing some glitch it doesn't make it any more acceptable.
I agreed with you up to this point. Your assumption is that the konami code triggered by a glitch is NOT acceptable. I would state that is wrong, it is a situation that has not yet been explored by the site. You raised an interesting point, and stated it more eloquently than I , but you took it too far. The decision on this run sets a presidence for cheat codes triggered by glitches, in a sense. That decision has not yet been made.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Posted: 9/7/2010 2:10 AM
Quote
p4wn3r
Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
Lucky TAS of 2011 Gameboy TAS of 2011
I voted Yes, and I think it should be in a separate category for the simple fact that it uses the (J) version and it's unclear if the glitch works in the (U) version. Should a run of Earthbound (U) using this glitch be submitted in the future, it would be double obsoletion. To contribute with the discussion, in my view, what makes a TAS interesting is the display of an unexpected gameplay, that finishes the game in a fast and, more important, creative way. It's about making the game follow your rules instead of doing a normal playthrough. I don't understand how someone can think about putting it in a Konami code category. So, it means that glitching the entire game to unlock an unaccessible feature to sequence break almost everything is about as interesting as entering a built-in code? I fail to see consistency in this argument, anyone with a superficial knowledge of a game can enter a password or code, there's nothing special in it. Glitching a debug menu, however, is impressive, makes you say WTF and makes an awesome TAS, that's what I consider important. Maybe I'm assuming erroneous things, but it seems to me that all this discussion is motivated by something the audience appears to think that I don't understand. When RPGs runs are submitted, the viewers who care to vote say "yeah, it's well done, but it's too long and not very interesting blah blah blah" and give horribly low ratings when they're published. However, when they are broken and brought to a reasonable time, people start to complain that it doesn't showcase the game's original gameplay! To defend a slower run from eventual obsoletion from a glitched (U) run, people consider many arbitrary reasons to justify it, like definition of memory corruption and Konami code, when it's clear that the rules of the site clearly don't say anything about this submission's special case.
Posted: 9/8/2010 2:48 AM
Quote
zem
Joined: 10/3/2009
Posts: 32
imo it's not (or shouldn't be) that cheat codes / debug menus are always forbidden; it's that a run that beats a game with a cheat code entered at the title screen is so much less interesting and entertaining than a run that doesn't use a cheat code that for the most part it's safe to say "no cheat codes" as a rule of thumb. this is clearly a vastly different situation. also, once again, is there any media player for mac os x that can play mister epic's encodes? VLC can sort of play them but it fucks up at the drop of a hat and seeking is nearly impossible. it would be cool if i could watch this site's movies without changing operating systems.
Posted: 9/8/2010 5:55 AM
Quote
Acheron86
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
zem: I have no problems opening, viewing, and seeking through mister epic's encodes. I am using VLC to watch the video, and I have the flip4mac and Perian codecs installed, not that you should (normally) need anything more than VLC to view .mkv files without issue.
I will not use self-reference in my signature.
Posted: 9/8/2010 10:27 AM
Quote
Flygon
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
It's probably the method of which Mister Epic uses frame dropping in his encodes. I suggest using a more advanced player. While, personally, I don't agree with the methods of which his encodes implement duplicate frame dropping, it's still publishable, even despite potential compatibility issues. zem, do you have any problems trying to play back encodes I make?
Posted: 9/8/2010 1:52 PM
Quote
jlun2
Skilled player (1743)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4986
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
GBA TASer of 2010
p4wn3r wrote:
I voted Yes, and I think it should be in a separate category for the simple fact that it uses the (J) version and it's unclear if the glitch works in the (U) version. Should a run of Earthbound (U) using this glitch be submitted in the future, it would be double obsoletion.
According to what I can read, It does indeed work in the (U) version. Unfortunately, it seems that the results are different than that of a real SNES. However, the (J) version seems to result in the same effect as in a console (as tested by Pirohiko) so that's why they're using the (J) rom.
LLCoolDave wrote:
This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.
Posted: 9/8/2010 2:56 PM
Quote
GabCM
He/Him
Joined: 5/5/2009
Posts: 901
Location: QC, Canada
zem wrote:
also, once again, is there any media player for mac os x that can play mister epic's encodes? VLC can sort of play them but it fucks up at the drop of a hat and seeking is nearly impossible. it would be cool if i could watch this site's movies without changing operating systems.
I don't own a Mac, but maybe if you try using MPlayer?
Flygon wrote:
It's probably the method of which Mister Epic uses frame dropping in his encodes. I suggest using a more advanced player.
I'm having problems watching my own encodes using VLC. That's why I'm now using Media Player Classic. This software reads them perfectly.
Posted: 9/8/2010 2:58 PM
Quote
blahmoomoo
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
Submission Text wrote:
The debug menu occurs more likely on the Japanese version of the game (Mother 2). I wasn't able to trigger it even once on the US version, however, people made comments stating in English language that they triggered the debug menu so I'm assuming that it may work on the US version.
From what is said above, getting to the debug menu is likely possible in the US version, but doing so must either take a much longer time to get there or requires a much more convoluted set of inputs. In any case, I think a closer examination of this glitch would have to be performed before figuring out how to do it on the US version or how to do it faster on the J version. And I completely agree with the arguments for the debug menu not being the same as entering a cheat code (Konami or otherwise), especially for the reason that getting to this debug menu quickly and reliably is not possible in real life, while entering a cheat code can be done by anybody.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Posted: 9/8/2010 6:19 PM
Quote
Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
If abusing the debug menu is officially allowed, then where do we set the limit of what can be done with it? I don't know what can be in actuality done with the debug menu in this game, but let's assume for the sake of an example that you could jump right to the ending using it. Would that be acceptable? If not, then where do we draw the line? Why is one cheat acceptable but not another?
Posted: 9/8/2010 8:18 PM
Quote
GabCM
He/Him
Joined: 5/5/2009
Posts: 901
Location: QC, Canada
I had to make a screenshot.
Posted: 9/8/2010 10:50 PM
Quote
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4045
While that screenshot looks great, a one of Ness talking to the side of the boogey tent would be more appropriate.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Posted: 9/9/2010 12:47 AM
(Edited: 9/12/2010 1:53 PM)
Quote
MUGG
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
Gameboy TASer of 2015 NES TAS of 2013 Gameboy TASer of 2011 Gameboy TASer of 2010
I don't know what can be in actuality done with the debug menu in this game, but let's assume for the sake of an example that you could jump right to the ending using it. Would that be acceptable?
I think that something like that needs to be discussed seperately for each game. But how many games have debug menus that are locked away and can still be glitched? I think that entering an built-in code in an intro screen of a game to trigger a debug menu shouldn't be allowed since it's much like entering a password. This TAS of Mother 2 was created with the mindset that using a glitch to trigger the debug menu is a valid option in a TAS, but it should probably go into a seperate category if it gets published. Earthbound actually has 2 different debug menus and the second one allows to roll the Staff credits directly. If it had been possible to trigger that debug menu, we would have selected the staff roll directly with it. It doesn't make it any less 'valid' than skipping the whole game, going home and ending the game there, in my opinion. My personal opinion is that built-in cheat codes are forbidden and we bypass this restriction by glitching to the debug menu. Also, maybe in the future we may see a TAS that manages to summon the credits without any debug menu at all... who knows? About (J) ROM vs (U) ROM: Snes9x 1.51 seems to emulate the tent glitch correctly for both ROMs. The Japanese ROM mostly only has 2 primary possible glitch messages and a very rare chance for another few possible glitch messages that may occur, by checking the area in the tent. It is more likely to trigger the debug menu but perhaps the U ROM can be used for more glitchy effects? I would prefer to see a subtitle saying "you may want to skip to mm:ss" in the part where the game doesn't do anything for 10,000 frames. I would be in favor of not using a screenshot that shows the tent glitch in action since 1) it takes away the surprise, 2) it's actually a boring part of the run (the 10,000 frames of waiting).
Youtube • Livestream • Progress 11th TASer of the Decade 2010-2019 !
Posted: 9/9/2010 1:36 AM
Quote
GabCM
He/Him
Joined: 5/5/2009
Posts: 901
Location: QC, Canada
Patashu wrote:
While that screenshot looks great, a one of Ness talking to the side of the boogey tent would be more appropriate.
This one's the best?
Posted: 9/11/2010 4:18 AM
Quote
DarkKobold
Skilled player (1652)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
Warp wrote:
I don't know what can be in actuality done with the debug menu in this game, but let's assume for the sake of an example that you could jump right to the ending using it. Would that be acceptable?
Have you even actually watched this movie, or are you just arguing? It does exactly that....
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Posted: 9/11/2010 5:47 AM
Quote
Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
DarkKobold wrote:
Have you even actually watched this movie, or are you just arguing? It does exactly that....
So now cheat codes which jump straight to the end of the game are allowed? When was this principle changed? I remember the time when this was considered to make the entire point of the run rather moot. (And before someone argues that that one pokemon run also jumps straight to the end of the game from almost the beginning, two points: 1) There's a difference: It's not using a cheat code to do that. 2) Personally I find the entire concept of that run a bit dubious, especially since it uses save corruption which is something I don't really like as it feels almost like using a cheating device, but that's just my opinion.)
Posted: 9/11/2010 6:34 AM
Quote
DarkKobold
Skilled player (1652)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
So, let me get this straight.... You've made 5 multi-paragraph posts in this thread, and you expect people to take your opinion as valid, and you didn't even take the time to watch the movie? Seriously, you've just lost all credibility in this thread, because you haven't even seen the source material for which you are arguing over. Do you even care about TASes, or are you on this site just to argue?
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Posted: 9/11/2010 9:39 AM
Quote
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4128)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
Warp wrote:
DarkKobold wrote:
Have you even actually watched this movie, or are you just arguing? It does exactly that....
So now cheat codes which jump straight to the end of the game are allowed?
More accurately, using glitches directly or indirectly to modify location and/or event data is allowed.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 9/11/2010 2:05 PM
Quote
blahmoomoo
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
Warp wrote:
So now cheat codes which jump straight to the end of the game are allowed?
Let's get this straight. A CHEAT CODE IS NOT BEING USED. A glitch that leads to the debug menu is being used, which is then used to essentially jump to the end of the game (it's not quite at the end, but close enough). The only other known way to get to this debug menu is to use a GameGenie, which is obviously not being used here. There is no normal in-game method that can lead to the debug menu.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Posted: 9/12/2010 10:17 AM
Quote
DrJones
Joined: 4/3/2005
Posts: 575
Location: Spain
Let's put things in perspective. It doesn't matter how contrived and hard to find it was, and how cool the run was until that point. When you reach the debug menu, what every person will see is that you open the debug menu, use it to warp to the end, and done, which is incredibly lame because instead of "superplaying" you are using a debug function to warp to the end of the game. Debug code is considered off-limits for that reason. Claiming it's not cheating when the main purpose of a debug menu is to cheat is laughable. I in some way understand people agreeing with this run because the extraordinary circumstances that allow you to cheat even though the cheat menu is hidden and disabled, and while it's a feat that deserves to be shown and that many people will find interesting, it has to be in a separate publication in a separate category. The any% Earthbound run should be, well, about beating the game, not about opening a debug menu and using it to skip to the end. The fact that no judge has yet commented about the fate of this submission might signal that there's definitively an issue with this run. Personally, I would settle for publishing it in the "concept demo" category, because it shows parts of the game that are normally disabled.
No.
Posted: 9/12/2010 1:44 PM
Quote
Acheron86
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
DrJones wrote:
When you reach the debug menu, what every person will see is that you open the debug menu, use it to warp to the end, and done, which is incredibly lame because instead of "superplaying" you are using a debug function to warp to the end of the game. Debug code is considered off-limits for that reason. Claiming it's not cheating when the main purpose of a debug menu is to cheat is laughable.
"Laughable" is a very poor and somewhat arrogant choice of words, I think... Your premise is correct (everyone who sees this run in action will see the debug menu accessed) but the assumption that we would all agree it is "incredibly lame" is faulty. As someone who knows Earthbound inside-out, this was an impressive surprise for me. At the very least, players familiar with the game may enjoy the use of a glitch to access the normally-inaccessible debug menu. (And I really think the word "cheat" is being used far too gratuitously in this thread, since it has different meanings to different people and isn't the best way to describe the glitches used here). Also, the main purpose of a debug menu is for developer testing, not cheating. Generally speaking, they never existed to allow player progression out of sequence, and again I think we can agree the developers never imagined nor intended for players to use this menu in a playthrough on cartridge after the game shipped. I do agree that the run should not obsolete the any% run; I think the site really needs a category going forward for memory read/write corruption, as I doubt this is the last time we'll have this issue.
I will not use self-reference in my signature.
Posted: 9/13/2010 1:00 PM
Quote
neo_omegon
Player (160)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
I voted yes several days ago. This run reminds me of this CT. Although the usage of the debug menu is on the boards, subpixel optimization and better luck manipulation are enough for me to vote yes. The RNG behavior is very impressive. Many other RPG runs might be replaced by his refined analysis.
Posted: 9/15/2010 2:46 AM
(Edited: 9/18/2010 6:03 PM)
Quote
GabCM
He/Him
Joined: 5/5/2009
Posts: 901
Location: QC, Canada
And I come here with a new and working encode! Archive page <- I've got to upload a streamable version. Video file (MP4, 40.7 MB)
Posted: 9/18/2010 5:31 PM
Quote
Limne
Any
Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 153
I find it difficult to believe that people are referring to the debug menu as a "cheat code." Did any of you even watch what happened? The TASer messed around with memory addresses using glitches until they gained access to a debug menu, a development tool inside the code left over from production. That's not a cheat. We already have runs that allow players to mess around with a game's memory (CT comes to mind...). The only thing difference in this game is that there are better tools to manipulate inside the game's code. It's really not that different than if they'd corrupted memory to warp to the ending themselves instead of relying on debug menu commands buried deep inside the game. There is a world of difference between manipulating intentional "cheats" inside the GAME and memory addresses inside the CODE. There's a difference between pressing A and B on the title screen 50 times to see the credits roll and using a glitch to access a command in the game's memory that causes the same ending to appear. There is not a difference between the latter and using a glitch to access developer tools buried deep within the code (a debug menu) to access the same command.
1 2 3 4 5 6