Post subject: Should TASers rate their own movies?
Joined: 5/14/2007
Posts: 525
Location: Pisces-Cetus filament
I have just found out that some players have rated their own movies, and I think that some discussion on the matter would be good. In my opinion, such practice isn't appropriate because, having into account the amount of time and effort than they take, I don't think that rating your own TASes objectively is possible.
AzumaK wrote: I swear my 1 year old daughter's favorite TASVideo is your R4MI run :3 xxNKxx wrote: ok thanks handsome feos :D Help improving TASVideos!
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4128)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
I agree, people shouldn't be able to rate their own movies because as an author it's hardly possible to have an objective opinion on it. In addition, players are essentially free to change their movies' ratings to an extent, and in extension, improve their player points amount. (Don't go complaining to me that people don't/shouldn't care and that it's just a number etc., please)
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Rolanmen1
He/Him
Experienced player (765)
Joined: 2/20/2009
Posts: 569
Location: Dominican Republic
Sorry to be offtopic, but this gave me the idea that TASers shouldn't vote on their own TASes. It's an obvious Yes Vote if the TASer is going to vote.
Former player
Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Argentina
Rolanmen1 wrote:
Sorry to be offtopic, but this gave me the idea that TASers shouldn't vote on their own TASes. It's an obvious Yes Vote if the TASer is going to vote.
The discussion about own voting is here and you aren't offtopic at all, cause this two problems are related.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
The only real issue is people rating their own movies multiple times. I caught a user who created three accounts and gave each of his own movies 10/10.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Post subject: Re: Should TASers rate their own movies?
ALAKTORN
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Zeupar wrote:
I have just found out that some players have rated their own movies, and I think that some discussion on the matter would be good. In my opinion, such practice isn't appropriate because, having into account the amount of time and effort than they take, I don't think that rating your own TASes objectively is possible.
I agree
Joined: 2/19/2010
Posts: 248
If there are 20 other ratings each of 5.0/5.0, a user who rates himself 10/10 will only skew the results to 5.25/5.25. The effect is only diluted more by more ratings.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3576)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Can you show me the examples of biased author ratings that are skewing results? So much so that it is worth taking time to code the site to stop them? Ditto for voting. Show me the problem, otherwise this is a non-issue.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Rating own movies objectively is impossible. Rating others' movies objectively is equally impossible. It is a non-issue if the authors evaluate their effort fairly, because they know the game better and can actually tell how polished the run is (like adelikat does; I mean his tech rating for own movies is sometimes lower than what I give). If they just do 10/10 on whatever they submit, it's really irksome, but doesn't become much of a problem if there are many other users who have rated those movies.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
If one would really want to do something about this, it might be easier to simply remove authors' own ratings from the database from time to time with a script/stored procedure/whatever rather than adding a check to the rating code. For each movie, check if the author has rated it, and if so, silently remove those ratings. OTOH, whether all this is worth the effort is another question.
Experienced player (829)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Warp wrote:
OTOH, whether all this is worth the effort is another question.
The answer to this question is no.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
I don't rate my own movies. However, as an example, it bugs me to see technical ratings as low as 7 on my my Kid Niki movie, though I know it can only be improved by 2~6 frames. It was one of the movies I optimized to death. Not that it matters... I don't care at all, but technical ratings are often flawed.
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
MUGG wrote:
I don't rate my own movies. However, as an example, it bugs me to see technical ratings as low as 7 on my my Kid Niki movie, though I know it can only be improved by 2~6 frames. It was one of the movies I optimized to death. Not that it matters... I don't care at all, but technical ratings are often flawed.
Technical ratings are very difficult, especially if you haven't ever played the game. I try to abstain from technical votes if I haven't played the game, and only really feel comfortable giving them if I've TASed it (or if the author's notes are exhaustive and technical with links to lua scripts and / or bots, etc.). I also feel that sometimes awkwardness or intrinsically clunky gameplay can be confounded with the author's technical skill.
Experienced player (829)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
I have no problem with rating and/or voting for your own movie. I've done it with all of mine, trying to be as fair as possible with the ratings. If there are very few people to vote or rate, then it's likely an unpopular game and no one will care what you vote. Conversely, if it's a popular game enough people will rate or vote to make the authors single rating/vote inconsequential.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
MUGG wrote:
I don't rate my own movies. However, as an example, it bugs me to see technical ratings as low as 7 on my my Kid Niki movie, though I know it can only be improved by 2~6 frames. It was one of the movies I optimized to death.
It seems to still be a rather common misconception that the "technical rating" is a synonym for "frame perfection". It isn't, and it shouldn't. Frame perfection is only a small part of it. http://tasvideos.org/VotingGuidelines.html (Note that I'm not saying that 7 is a proper rating for your movie even by those standards. Just wanted to, once again, clear up the confusion.)
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3576)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
What Warp said. However, most people do rate based on how close to frame perfect they think a movie is. I used to rate that way as well, but have since changed how I look at the technical rating. However, I don't particularly think any way of rating is right or wrong. Just keep in mind that what you see as an unfair rating might just be a different interpretation of the rating system.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Experienced player (534)
Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682
You should definitely be able to rate your own movies. If your run happens to be one of your favourites, you should be able to rate it to show this.
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Now that the awards voting is open, it raises the question if the authors should be allowed to vote for themselves and on their own movies... (OTOH, I think that in most democracies candidates retain their constitutional right to vote and are hence allowed to vote, and it's actually implicitly expected that they vote for themselves, so perhaps this isn't such a horrible thing.)
Skilled player (1652)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Warp wrote:
Now that the awards voting is open, it raises the question if the authors should be allowed to vote for themselves and on their own movies... (OTOH, I think that in most democracies candidates retain their constitutional right to vote and are hence allowed to vote, and it's actually implicitly expected that they vote for themselves, so perhaps this isn't such a horrible thing.)
Yeah, in the US, it is always a big photo op when the presidential candidates vote.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Joined: 11/23/2010
Posts: 14
Location: Peotone, IL, USA
In conclusion: The ethics of self-voting is reliant on the honesty of the voter; ultimately, though, it is not a significant enough issue to be worth tackling.
www.NintendoLegend.com -- One gamer's quest to play and review every American-released NES game!