Post by MUGG

Posted: 10/7/2009 12:10 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

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Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

So it treats both controllers equally? Does that mean you could press a button 60 times a second by alternating which controller you press it on?

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 10/7/2009 12:31 AM

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It's hard to say. The menu system takes a few frames to change its selection and any input while changing the selection is ignored. In terms of walking, alternating controller input doesn't seem to visibly change speed (though you might want to analyze the RAM for that, of course). The only thing I see that changes for walking is that pushing in opposite directions on one controller makes Ness move, but opposite directions over two doesn't make him move anywhere. I don't have the time to make any deeper analysis than that. Something might come out of it, but I can't guess what.

<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.

Posted: 10/7/2009 11:57 PM

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ElectroSpecter

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Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

Bag of Magic Food wrote:

So it treats both controllers equally? Does that mean you could press a button 60 times a second by alternating which controller you press it on?

I had the exact same thought. The added time would certainly add up, but unfortunately I can't seem to alternate controllers to get things to move any faster. The menu cursor seems to take two frames to move either way.

My Backloggery

Posted: 4/24/2010 4:54 PM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2364)

Joined: 5/15/2007
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPCFmr3Itog This gamebreaking glitch could be used to reach the end credits early (either by glitching directly there or by bringing up the debug menu and selecting the credits with it). There are a few more videos about this bug on Youtube and people have made quite a variety of discoveries like reaching the debug menu, triggering a battle and glitch warping. I myself haven't found anything useful, just a lot of game freezes and two glitch warps (both brought me to Fourside's cafe, but one warped me further, into Dark Deepness' swamps). But after warping, everything was at the verge of freezing up the game, you couldn't talk to anyone and going over trigger spots made weird sound effects play or glitch up the graphics. I tried autofiring L to see different outcomes, by advancing a frame everytime. I took both of the runs on the site and my own walkthrough and went to the tent to compare the outcomes and they were generally different. This will be very tough to investigate, but if this could be exploited successfully we could have a new glitched run of 15 minutes in length.

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Posted: 4/24/2010 6:32 PM

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Limne

Any

Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 153

Can this bring up the debug menu? I've only ever heard of it being accessed through the Game Genie code... It doesn't look like dialogue being printed when the glitching starts, and as I remember the debug menu is stored as dialogue: the Game Genie code was supposed to stop dialogue from ending so that you'd keep getting other entries until you reached where the debug menu was stored. I remember the debug menu having a lot of cool stuff (There's probably a FAQ on Starmen.net) but nothing like skipping ahead to Giygas or the ending. (Personally, I prefer the obsoleted run. It strikes me as having more of a "100%" kind of feel).

Posted: 4/24/2010 9:40 PM

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MUGG

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Joined: 5/15/2007
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You can select the end credits on the fourth page of the second debug menu. http://starmen.net/mother2/gameinfo/debug2/ I don't know if you could select the end credits in the first debug menu. Even if you couldn't, you could probably still do some significant changes with both of the menus so that you can reach the credits pretty fast.

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Posted: 4/24/2010 11:57 PM
(Edited: 5/16/2010 4:03 PM)

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2364)

Joined: 5/15/2007
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I used a walk-through-walls cheat code to test the area around the circus tent. Basicly, most of the right side of the tent is glitchy. If you go farther rightwards or downwards, however, there won't be glitchy dialogue. I tested this area with autofire L at 30 Hz for 100.000 frames and didn't see any glitched text. Edit: http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2329/fullmapsmall.png * Glitched text spots are often located where there's a cross of map transition lines. There is no such cross at the circus tent, though. The spot there is also significantly larger. * There are two spots I found so far that will always bring up glitched text. One of them acts very glitchy and will often result in a game break. (located in the north of Onett) Edit: I took pirohiko's TAS and modified it a bit. I only bought one skip sandwich and got another one from the trash can in Threed. I go directly to the circus tent to try my luck. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/547016345/EarthBound%20pirohiko%2C%20modified%20mugg.smv I like this outcome, though it's useless... On another note: This glitch should be tested on the real console! The glitch messages have differed between snes9x 1.43 and 1.51.

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Posted: 5/2/2010 1:28 PM

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MUGG

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Death-warping back to Ness' house after Buzz Buzz joins you is now proven to be slower. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDQkIdOv2Vk Note that I have to lure a Spiteful Crow since it can dodge Buzz Buzz' attacks (the Coil Snake and the Runaway Dog can not dodge, and Buzz Buzz can't miss).

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Posted: 5/16/2010 4:51 PM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2364)

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I managed to bring up the debug menu in snes9x 1.43 with the Japanese ROM. It seems a lot easier with this ROM. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOCCVsNcsPA Thanks to pirohiko's testing on a real console we know that the console behaves like 1.43. Unfortunately the glitch can't be recorded on smv due to desynching errors! The outcome that is played back is different, but stays the same for every upcoming attempt of playing back. So sadly, no new TAS can be made at this point of time. Also we still need to try the glitch in 1.51 (J ROM) and on bsnes.

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Posted: 5/16/2010 5:10 PM

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scrimpeh

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Joined: 3/31/2010
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I wouldn't have thought the emulators behaved any different there. Perhaps ZSNES might work?

Posted: 6/28/2010 4:48 AM

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Ryanzorz

Joined: 6/28/2010
Posts: 8

I don't know if someone has already posted this but a value of 0 results in a miss for Ness. Also, MUGG. Already posted on your video but I'll post again here: You can access the debug menu in the (U) version of the rom (tested in SNES9X 1.51) by letting the text scroll by in the threed tent glitch and letting the pallette glitch out (rainbow static is what I've dubbed it). If you keep spamming A at this point the debug menu comes up. Sorry if you already found this and I sound like I'm patronizing you.

Posted: 2/11/2011 4:16 AM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2364)

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Hey! While watching fisherrob86's glitched speedrun attempts on ustream, I kind of got in the mood to try the tent glitch on the US version again and I got to the debug menu very easily this time...When I had tried it the first few times I deemed it impossible. It would just never bring up anything useful and I tried for hours... Sadly I didn't record an smv, but I will keep trying and maybe I will get an smv later. This might be a good reason to make an improvement, on the US version. :)

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Posted: 2/17/2011 7:59 AM

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MUGG

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New TAS is being worked on. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1506480517/earthbound_tas2.smv The "HOHOHO" glitch message might be the key to reach the debug menu on the (U) ROM. The movie eventually ends when there is an empty text box. Pressing B will have different results for each frame, but pressing L will change the possible results. In other attempts I was able to warp to Fourside's café, or Dalaam (albeit the movie wouldn't sync), sometimes there was some of the game's script. Sometimes, the text pointer will tell where it derives the current text from so maybe this is useful... But as things are now, this is a big heap of "try around for hours while achieving nothing". Maybe there can be help from others, so I thought I'd post here.

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Posted: 2/23/2011 12:02 AM

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MUGG

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Warp to Dalaam The game reads "This is a very special Magic cake![PAUSE][CLOSEALLWIN][FLAGOFF 03D][GOTO C920A2]" and subsequently warps to Dalaam. I'm actually thinking we could make the game execute " @Okay![DELAY 14] Now you can finally share your incredible experiences with me...[PAUSE][LINE]@You did so well![PAUSE][CLOSEALLWIN] (.....)" which would start the staff roll!

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Posted: 2/23/2011 2:57 AM

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blahmoomoo

Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347

Wow, that's pretty cool! The game doesn't even have issues when you warp to Dalaam like that. I wonder if the game will still work if the staff roll is started in the same manner...

<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.

Posted: 2/25/2011 7:36 PM

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MUGG

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Warp to ??? (useless) Warp to Belch's Factory Glitch rain + sped up BGM Warp to Winters Trigger for the Boogie Tent battle Paula kidnapping in Fourside All of the above movie demonstrations were found with the help of a certain glitched text box.

  HOHO
HOgOHOgO
HO

You can end up with the aforementioned glitched box if you press "left+right" as/after this text scrolls/scrolled. On this text box, you get different results every frame and depending on if you press one of the following combinations: left+up+L left+right+L up+L L+B left+up+R+L etc. After countless hours of testing, I learned more about the pattern and it seems to always loop through the same bits of memory (you get the same text and effects over and over again if you wait long enough). I couldn't manage to reach any useful stuff aside from what I've already found with this text box. Even if I save and reset the game right before going to the glitch spot, the results are mostly the same (though the results may change as one progresses through the game or takes certain measurements such as buying and selling stuff, fighting enemies, etc. but the latter has little effect). I'd like to investigate the lower movies more, but other than all that I wish to stop spending more hours on this... Teleport Phone call

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Posted: 4/5/2011 5:07 PM

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MUGG

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Stored Goods-box Game crash upon battle start I keep getting useless stuff.

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Posted: 4/17/2011 6:03 AM

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daylanb

Joined: 4/17/2011
Posts: 2

Hello TAS community. Don't if this will be the place to ask. But it seems this will be the place. My and my friend(a guy who has lots of interest in metroid maybe he has been around here, daltone) are trying to make a run just for fun where we beat as many bosses as possible without Ness. Not a dead Ness. NO Ness. So far our Jeff run is doing nicely, having defeated Frank, Giant step and the Onett police force.... Jeff needs to sell mushrooms for money because he has no atm card lol. We have been trying to get a Poo run going but we have hit a snag. For this we are using the glitch where you have a save game that is about to die from a status ailment. You die on a set of stairs and load up a different save game messing with the game and allowing you to walk through the walls in the other save game. We use this glitch right after getting the sound stone to goto the Stotic club and eat moon cake and get Poo. We have figured out that we can get to the Scaraba(via pyramid) with poo by using the above glitch to travel from Delaam to the Lost underworld (there is a door that leads to the lost underworld in a room that shares a tileset with Delaam in the along the top of the map, near the middle). And from the Lost underworld to the scaraba pyramid(again shared tileset) using the same glitch. Here is where we hit the problem. At one end of this pyramid: the evil pyramid door never allowing us to pass. And the other: Poo gets taken away to learn starstorm, locking the game. So far we have tried taking Ness to open the pyramid door before handing control over to Poo, but this seems to also break the game; when you go to get the hieroglyph(again glitching the f out of the game with aforementioned glitch to do so) it locks after reading the glyph in the summers museum. The two solutions seems like they should be easy to accomplish, being that you can pass so many other barriers and triggers. One is pass by the pyramid door with it being closed, the other bypass the trigger that leads to Poo being taken away. I have no idea how to do either of these but I would love to know if there is anything we can do. We are doing this on console right now but if TA is needed then we will have to settle with emulator. Thanks for any help anyone can give, and I will make sure to keep you updated on how far in the game we get with our Jeff run. EDIT: Our Jeff run has turned into a no Ness run, we have beaten the Carpenter and now have Paula, Jeff and the bubblegum monkey.

Posted: 4/19/2011 5:59 PM

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daylanb

Joined: 4/17/2011
Posts: 2

For more information on the above go to our post on the starmen.net, we even have a smv that brings you to Onett just becoming daytime as Jeff from the start of the game. http://forum.starmen.net/forum/Games/Mother2/No-ness-run/page/1#post1730302 I will still periodically update everybody here on the progress, but for now the big news is we have got an smv available that syncs. Our route through the game is shaping up nicely, with the main goal being beat the game without getting a single kill as Ness, killing as many of the bosses as possible.

Posted: 4/26/2011 11:18 AM

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MUGG

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Debug menu (working) I found this a few weeks ago. But we cannot use it because after selecting event 70, Ness is stuck and can't even deathwarp despite having 0 HP. I also got a handful other broken debug menus which don't work at all.

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Posted: 5/27/2011 2:14 AM

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Shimanyo

Joined: 5/27/2011
Posts: 4
Location: North Carolina

Just a quick question. How is the Lua script that pirohiko created supposed to be used, because I can't seem to get it to work, and it seems very useful.

Posted: 5/27/2011 6:28 AM

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MUGG

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http://pastebin.com/Xpyp7Ef7 This one? I'm not really sure about some things (anymore) but I'm trying to explain it briefly. There are invisible lines that call the RNG when you walk across them, and the RNG determines if enemies do spawn or do not spawn. In the 30:42 TAS, we have Ness walk in place, onside a cross-way of those "spawn lines" in Giant Step, to make the RNG shift very quickly to manipulate luck better. If you want an enemy to drop a 1/128 item, start the battle with a red/yellow line onside the white line in the bar. If you want to use SMAAAASH!! in a battle, I can't really help. Pirohiko was doing all the battles in the 30:42 TAS, and I couldn't really figure out how it works, even if I try 200 subsequent RNGs with some red lines in them... Did you plan to use the lua script for something particular?

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Posted: 5/27/2011 2:17 PM

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Shimanyo

Joined: 5/27/2011
Posts: 4
Location: North Carolina

Yes, that is the script I'm talking about. When I try to run it, it generates an error message, which I'm trying to fix. I don't know if there has been any speculation about this before, but I am starting to plan a 100% run, and this script would seem very helpful to use.

Posted: 5/27/2011 7:01 PM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2364)

Joined: 5/15/2007
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What error message does it generate? You should use snes9x 1.51 v6.

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