How do I make it so the clock only runs when I'm playing. I wouldn't mind so much but technically running the game would be a single segment. Does the real time clock option do that? I had the problem before I turned it on but it doesn't sound like it will fix it, since I don't want a real time clock...
Sorry, I kinda wrote that weird. Basically, if I am making a video for this run, and I save state and the next time I play it's in the middle of the night, won't that look weird? For example I walk into a building and save state and the next time I play I walk out and it's night time.
Basically, I just want the in-game day/night clock to run only when I play.
I dont know this gen much. Are there sequence breaks that can be done by obtaining key items before you should? I was researching the glitches so I can plan a run for stadium and the celebi glitch can create any pokemon setup (which means my research was a success :D), and that includes the item they hold, which means free key items.
A theoretical TAS would create a bad clone in vba if the emulator allows or make part or the whole run in pokemon stadium 2 and whatever changes to the emulators were needed too (yawn). Or a movie could end and require you to play the next movie on the next emulator (over the resulting save of the previous movie) for example.
From a quick walkthrough read this doesn't seem game breaking though, except maybe the S.S. Ticket, but that may require you to beat the E4 first. The Pass would be useful but I'm pretty sure the train needs you to fix the Power Plant first, and while you can get HMs they won't work until you get the badges...
The item list is out of reach as well as the current map, coordinates and the badges (so, all the holes I recall from yellow :P). Since I haven't researched this game much my ram map however is pretty much empty so I don't know what lies below the pokemon list (the pokedex is there, and the daycare, but that's pretty much all the data I have).
Since I am not interested on learning these games so I can run them I leave it up there for the ones that know what to do already, if it could save time I guess I could make videos if you can't figure out how to do this or that.
There is a possibility of a concept demo TAS of Pokemon Crystal, doing the Celebi Egg trick.
Sneasel is found in Mt. Silver in Gold and Silver, but found in the Ice Path in Crystal. Found at night.
What time at night sounds great? 6:00 PM gives you 10 hours. 12:00 AM gives you four hours.
3:00 AM gives you roughly one hour.
There is a possibility of a concept demo TAS of Pokemon Crystal, doing the Celebi Egg trick.
Sneasel is found in Mt. Silver in Gold and Silver, but found in the Ice Path in Crystal. Found at night.
What time at night sounds great? 6:00 PM gives you 10 hours. 12:00 AM gives you four hours.
3:00 AM gives you roughly one hour.
Careful there. Police officers will just talk to you during the day but if they spot you at night, they will challenge you to a battle.
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Well, here is an excuse for Crystal to get a new run.
Me and wersterlobe have been playing around with this game for the last few days, specifically with the bad clone glitch. We've found a lot of interesting things you can easily do by shuffling hex values around in your party - produce pokemon from items, key items from pokemon, attacks from experience, pokemon from attacks, etc. After finding that Pass and SS Ticket don't work before they are supposed to, we got a bit discouraged.
Then we stumbled upon a few new glitches...funny stuff like sliding around instead of walking or the champ music playing in the day care center. Eventually, we hit 2 jackpot glitches:
Map Distortion Glitch:
1. Get a level 0 bad clone (involves the classic cloning glitch, resetting at the exact right time...there is more on this on plenty of sites).
2. Put 6 pokemon into your party, including the bad clone.
3. Give the bad clone to the day care lady, and immediately take it back out.
4. Put the glitch pokemon that results in the fifth slot of your party.
5. Using the "Move Pokemon" option, add one pokemon from your PC to the top of your party. (It won't show it on the PC, but you should have 7 pokemon in your party)
6. Using the "Withdraw" option (and change box as needed), take out 36 more pokemon, so that your party has a total of 43 pokemon. (The glitch can actually be done w/ 31-32 total, but the next glitch can't).
7. Heal at a pokemon center.
8. When you want to distort the map, open your menu screen, select pokemon, then exit back to the game. When the map is distorted you can walk many places you wouldn't normally be able to.
Some uses of the Map Distortion Glitch that help in a run (all tested):
1. Board the magnet train before fighting Whitney (Kanto early).
2. Get past Snorlax without the EXPN card
3. Get past guards in front of Victory Road (Mt. Silver / Pokemon League with only 2 badges)
4. Avoid rival in Victory Road
Unfortunately, Mt. Silver early isn't as useful as it sounds: you still need to beat the Pokemon League for Red to appear. Furthermore, you can't glitch past the Elite 4 with the Map Distortion Glitch. However...
Instant Victory Glitch:
1. Have 43+ pokemon in your party (see above)
2. Start a battle against any wild pokemon or trainer
3. Check your pokemon, then cancel
4. Select fight
Upon selecting fight the battle will immeidately fade out, with no closing dialogue. This makes it so you can easily breeze through the elite 4, use the MDG to get back to Mt. Silver, and then instant-victory Red. The hall of fame takes a bit longer, but it doesn't crash with this many pokemon (and it only gives details for your top 6).
There is a big problem with crashing during battles or encounters, but a TAS should be able to work around this. I have managed to complete the game w/ 2 badges using save states, so this is more than just theoretically possible.
There are probably ways to further optomize the glitches. Using cloning (good or bad), we can dupe 5 pokemon at a time, so getting 43 won't take that long. This was all discovered without using any TAS tools besides savestates, so with more advanced RAM watches improvements should be found.
Any takers?
Edit2: Ignore the stuff in the old post about badges: we can just teleport back to the pokemon league after the credits, and from there head to Mt. Silver. Should save a lot of walking.
I assumed something like this was possible but since I didn't have a ram map of the game I didn't bother, do you have one, or was all your work just by chance?
If you can help building a ram map I can help with whatever I can :P
I assumed something like this was possible but since I didn't have a ram map of the game I didn't bother, do you have one, or was all your work just by chance?
If you can help building a ram map I can help with whatever I can :P
If you are going to do this, please accredit Paco81, who made this all possible in the first place. There are various methods of memory corruption, which Paco81 very nicely told me about. One of them is a derivative of withdrawing 7 or more Pokémon.
One of these only occurs in Gold/Silver, whilst another is exclusive to Crystal.
Withdrawing more than 6 Pokémon (both versions):
1) This is done using a ????? (hex:00). Use the Move w/o Mail to withdraw a seventh Pokémon, and then withdraw extra Pokémon to affect RAM addresses beyond the range of normal Pokémon. Data for the 6th Pokémon in Crystal ranges from DCDD-DE82. (per expanded version of Matthew Robinson's code archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090504212827/http://glitchcity.info/docs/gameshark/pokemonccodes.txt) The 'step' between one byte associated with (x)th Pokémon and (x+1)th Pokémon is +0x30.
Corrupted Mail Box (Gold/Silver):
This allows you to 'obtain' lots of glitch Mail in the PC, unfortunately I don't know how far the list of mail extends to. Something around 240+ mail will also corrupt the map when you view the Mail Box (see below), but you don't obtain that much Mail with this method.
Whilst this may occur in Crystal, on the glitch forums I post to we haven't found a method of replicating it on Crystal yet.
1) Using ????? (hex:00), withdraw an eleventh Pokémon to corrupt the first Unown in the UnownDex. Certain glitch Unown when viewed corrupt the Mail Box.
I have compiled a RAM list for Gold/Silver for the Mail Box structure, because I couldn't find one anywhere. (Crystal's RAM map has an offset of +2B5)
1st Mail item:
First mail:
A835 = first character
A836 = second character
A837 = third character
A838 = fourth character
A839 = fifth character
A83A = sixth character
A83B = seventh character
A83C = eighth character
A83D = ninth character
A83E = tenth character
A83F = eleventh character
A840 = twelfth character
A841 = thirteenth character
A842 = fourteenth character
A843 = fifteenth character
A844 = sixteenth character
A845 = seventeenth character
A846 = eighteenth character
A847 = nineteenth character
A848 = twentieth character
A849 = twenty-first character
A84A = twenty-second character
A84B = twenty-third character
A84C = twenty-fourth character
A84D = twenty-fifth character
A84E = twenty-sixth character
A84F = twenty-seventh character
A850 = twenty-eighth character
A851 = twenty-ninth character
A852 = thirtieth character
A853 = thirty-first character
A854 = thirty-second character
A855 = thirty-third character
A856 = author of first mail (first character)
A857 = author of first mail (second character)
A858 = author of first mail (third character)
A859 = author of first mail (fourth character)
A85A = author of first mail (fifth character)
A85B = author of first mail (sixth character)
A85C = author of first mail (seventh character)
A85D = author of first mail (eighth character)
A85E = author of first mail (ninth character)
A85F = author of first mail (tenth character)
A860 = author of first mail (end character)
A861 = ?
A862 = Pokémon shown in portrait mail
A863 = type of mail (item id). 'Purple oddish mail' for invalid ids.
A864 = ?
Second mail:
A865 = first character of second mail
(continue until a certain amount of Mail, I can't remember the maximum, but its not high. :( )
Map corruption (2):
In addition to RingRush and westerlobe's method, viewing the status of a ????? (00) in Pokémon Crystal and exiting its summary will cause a 'glitch city'. Paco81 managed to get to the PokéCommunication Center in Crystal without Gameshark in Goldenrod City by corrupting the Goldenrod Pokémon Center map. I don't know what RAM values are affected unfortunately.
Also, this is relatively well known but after a battle with a ????? in Pokémon Crystal, escaping will escort you to an actual glitch map, unfortunately I don't know of the mechanisms behind that.
Edit: Odd, this post appeared invisible for some reason :( ? I had to disable BBcode to get it to work, and for some reason it is now perfectly visible with BB code.
Yes I know about Paco, I used his findings to do this long ago (and I did credit him :)):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnSEbS2vk-4
Thanks for the addresses, anyone that knows more post away, I suppose rom hackers should.
Yes I know about Paco, I used his findings to do this long ago (and I did credit him :)):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnSEbS2vk-4
Thanks for the addresses, anyone that knows more post away, I suppose rom hackers should.
Oh, I saw that! I remember you posted that on the (offline) Glitch City Laboratories forums as 'advanced Celebi Trick' :).
These RAM addresses might be useful[?], but it looks like its just a matter of changing them, i.e. is it possible to withdraw enough Pokémon to access them without the game freezing, or change them by withdrawing corrupted mail... or even reach some important RAM?
Dig room modifier:
DCAA - byte 1
DCAB - byte 2
Teleport room modifier:
DCB2 - byte 1
DCB3 - byte 2
Badges:
D84A - first byte
D84B - second byte
Collisions (no clipping):
C2FA-C2FD
p4wn3r wrote:
RingRush wrote:
1. Get a level 0 bad clone (involves the classic cloning glitch, resetting at the exact right time...there is more on this on plenty of sites).
Do you have a vbm getting this bad clone?
I tried many times, but couldn't get a lvl0 bad clone on VBA-rr no matter which frame I reset.
In Pokémon Crystal, it is around (well popularly believed to be) after the word 'POWER.' is written (after the full stop), did you try resetting around there?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIz1RAg25yM
p4wn3r wrote:
RingRush wrote:
1. Get a level 0 bad clone (involves the classic cloning glitch, resetting at the exact right time...there is more on this on plenty of sites).
Do you have a vbm getting this bad clone?
I tried many times, but couldn't get a lvl0 bad clone on VBA-rr no matter which frame I reset.
In Pokémon Crystal, it is around (well popularly believed to be) after the word 'POWER.' is written (after the full stop), did you try resetting around there?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIz1RAg25yM
Yes, I binary searched for the frame to reset both in Gold and Crystal. The only thing close to a bad clone I've got was a pokemon with tons of question marks in its name, sometimes it had also nines, it depended on the box.
In Crystal, I got it 140 frames after the save is confirmed, it's around 1/3 of a second after POWER is displayed. I don't remember the Gold version, but it was shortly after confirming the save, no letters were displayed.
I've tried this in many boxes, with varying quantities of pokemon, some of them had been filled, others hadn't. Basically tried every possibility I've come across in the internet. So far, in no VBA-rr version, I've got a lvl0 bad clone.
EDIT: I didn't try it in the latest v24 branch klmz released, I'll try it this weekend.
Some updates:
1. We have been unable to get this trick to work on console - not because of different results, but because the game simply crashes when you withdraw a 21st pokemon. If there was some way to increase the game's processing power to that of an emulator's, likely the same results would be reachable. We could either allow the glitch anyways (unlikely), or find a way to do it a bit differently, such as the stats check of a bad clone. Or, we could somehow manipulate it to work on console, and thus allow it to be approved for a TAS.
2. We have confirmed there are different types of distortions depending on your party. With two very different parties, we got the exact same results. But with a third party that was mostly similar to one of the others, we got a different distortion that couldn't bypass Snorlax. Furthermore, using the distortion glitch by checking the stats of the bad clone [with 4-7 pokemon], we received other patterns - as of yet, we haven't found one that can board the Magnet Train early.
If I had to take a shot in the dark, I'd say some bit of the distortion glitch has to do with the pokedex. The primary difference between the party that broke into Diglett's Cave and the one that didn't was that one file had caught an Abra, the other did not. There are a ton of possible variables though, so this could be very wrong.
3. Werster is the only one who has managed to get bad clones on emulator (he has done it 3 or 4 times). He used VBA, but not the rerecording version. Even with savestates, it took him hours of attempts to get a bad clone. I don't know if there is a major difference between VBA-rr and VBA or if there is more to getting a bad clone than the exact time you save (other factors such as ammount of pokemon deposited, ammount of tries, etc). I can confirm it works on some emulator, but I guess it is up to the TASers to determine whether it works on a useful emulator.
emulators runs on at 60fps, but a real game has more "frames" than that, when people do the bad clone on the real game they are possibly hitting a sub frame spot. So in order to get it on emulator, you'd have to try at different instances to try to get the frame to match the sub frame. Would be easier with an RR emulator that allowed to pause at any instruction you can reset at :D
The only existing example of that is Geiger's SNES9x build, for example the Chrono Trigger TAS would be 15 minutes faster if that emulator were used instead. There's no emulator capable to do a reset at any instruction for GBx afaik, I'm also not sure if a TAS done on it would be accepted if it existed, since the abuse of such feature would allow save-corruption exploits for virtually any game as long as you can do hash collisions (if they actually check some form of hash on the save file).
Werster had the idea of trying the glitch on Gold to see if we could get different results.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev7r9bltuv4
It sure looks a ton cooler, but so far it doesn't seem as powerful (although it is also faster to do). The exact details are still very confusing (what happens seems dependent on the pokemon you have).
But...
...unlike Crystal, this works on console! This means that if we can get the initial corruption to work on emulator, it should be perfectly valid for a TAS. A sub-hour TAS of Gen2 is looking more and more likely.
http://www.mediafire.com/?y9o4io9g29d0y1i
Hopefully this gets the ball rolling, a vbm made on vba-rr 23.5 showing these glitches.
At the start, I show the pokemon in the box and show that I too have come across where the names will glitch out, but won't be level 0. I'm not particularly show what the difference is between that, and getting level 0s, but straight after that I perform bad cloning and get level 0s. I then turn the bad clone into a "glitch pokemon" by depositing and withdrawing it in the daycare, and then move a seventh pokemon into my party, as it wont recognise the glitch pokemon as there. Then I can withdraw as many as I want, i take 20 out, change box and after 3 more (a total of 30) the game flips out, and resets (note: if the last pokemon I withdrew was that Sandshrew, the save data would've corrupted, I also got the same issue with Bellsprouts before)
Enter shadow character, and with 27 pokemon in my party (because that's when I last saved from changing boxes) I head out to the pokemon centre, this was required otherwise the menu would've just frozen. Then I show off map distortion glitch to get to Kanto and through to Victory Road, though when I tried to replicate the crash that occurred when I withdrew 30 pokemon (which you can do) the whole thing crashed so the movie ends there. But you can most definitely get to Mt Silver and such with this too.
I'm not a TASer by any stretch, I only use savestates, so this shouldn't be too hard to replicate. Hopefully some people who actually know what they're doing can help push this to it's absolute limits, because this has infinite potential.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
That's very awesome indeed. So I guess the bad clone glitch is confirmed possible on the -rr emulator?
Anyway, prepare for some noobish questioning...
I screwed around briefly with the input file. I noticed that the map distortion glitch stops working after using it to get into victory road i.e. you cannot cancel once you have entered the party menu. Does this not have implications for the instant victory glitch above? (I actually tried to get this glitch to work after diglett's cave, but had no luck, perhaps he didn't have enough pokemon?). Do you have a workaround for this?
I guess a TAS would look something like this:
- Choose Totodile
- Catch Geodude?
- Beat Falkner
- Buy Escape Rope at some point
- Catch four more pokemon at some point
- Beat Bugsy
- Get Cut and teach it to something
- Enter Daycare and create as many good clones as you need (I noticed in the vbm there was 20 in box1, 20 in box 2 and 15 in box 3. Has this been tested as optimal/necessary for bad clones?)
- Set up the Glitch
- Get the bike probably
- Get to Victory Road
- Heal and Beat E4 with Instant Victory
- ER back to Pokemon League
- Go to Mt. Silver and rule.
An Issue that still need to be resolved is how to solve the randomness of the bad clone glitch?
Since the Gold version of this trick only happens after the game forcibly resets, and the game always resets at a certain point, there is no way to get enough pokemon to do the instant victory glitch. Currently, we are planning on using a Geodude - after one fight, it levels up to 100 and gets Rollout (and Earthquake if for some reason it is needed for Red). Rollout also means less manipulation for disobedience.
What would be even nicer is to get a "trainer" - a glitch pokemon that looks just like the trainer using it. We managed to get one in Crystal and it started with extremely high stats and manipulatable attacks (based on the values of other pokemon in party). Also, it had no cry, which saves a bit of time. My guess is to have the lvl 0 clone as the lead in your party, but that is untested.
As far as manipulating attacks goes, Wooper has the same value as the hold item TM Rollout, and a level 12 parabolic growth pokemon starts with their final exp byte the same as the move Rollout. Currently though it seems as if values are flying all over the place, so it is hard to pinpoint exactly what can be manipulated and how.
An escape rope takes you back to the elite four after you beat them? What?
The amount of good clones to make is simply as many as you need for the glitches, ie you make 20 good clones, 5 bad clones and 6 in your party, enough for 30 pokemon to crash the game. And yes, I don't understand why sometimes bad cloning is possible and sometimes it isn't...
Also, yeah map distort stopped working in that vbm after getting to victory road, i think that has something to do with me saving and resetting (which was required otherwise map distort would've loaded over that whole map and made it impossible for me to get to victory road) however is is re-obtainable is you save again once in victory road, and crash the game again like what happened when i withdrew 30 pokemon (not sure exactly what causes this, I've got it in more than one ways) and then use that to skip rival fight, and beat the E4 with a level 100 graveler as RingRush said, which I've done. (I might make a vbm of all this soon, I guess)
The issue I'm currently having, is after I beat the E4, I can't get map distort back whatever I do. Even if I crash the game, it's just not working anymore, and I'm pretty much out of my novice ideas :(
Also I tried to recreate the Crystal glitches on vba-rr, and it had the same issues as console, a freeze at more than 20 pokemon in party, so I guess it was just regular vba not emulating correctly. You can still do things like instant level 100 in crystal, but nothing nearly as devastating as map distortion (well as far as I know anyway, someone might gladly be able to prove me wrong)
That's awesome news, I never thought about trying the bad clone again after getting the name garbaged one. At this exact moment I'm forced to Linux and thus can't use vba-rr to even watch the file (insert-request-to-update-the-linux-branch-here).
In the mean time, I think it's worth to try the VBA-M rerecording version to see if its emulation is accurate: http://code.google.com/p/vba-rerecording/downloads/detail?name=vba-v24m-svn-r391.7z&can=2&q=
An escape rope takes you back to the elite four after you beat them? What?
It takes you back to the last Pokémon Center you visited. It's not entirely obvious whether that includes the one in the entrance lobby to the Elite Four, which is why it needed testing.
I'm quite sure you're thinking of Gen 1, in all other gens an escape rope will simply takes you outside of the building/cave you used it in. What might be worth testing is teleport, which I intended to (I had an abra stuffed in box 14) after beating the E4, but then yeah I could never access the pokemon menu, so I never got to test it...
