Hey all,
I haven't really been posting for the last few years but I still come here once in a while to watch some videos; rarely visit the forums though. I found Exit Fate and Last Scenario here when I visited in 2009, and found the 7th Saga TAS I wanted to see in 2010.
I still want to see TAS of games I made topics for more than half a decade ago :
Der Langrisser, topic made in 2004
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=936
Dragon View, topic made in 2005
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2545
That first topic was made when Arc's site was still around and I didn't really know the difference between a TAS (I can't even recall what they were named back then but I know it wasn't TAS... time attack I think?) and a speedrun because he threw them all on the same page + those aesthetics runs he kept. I remember lurking for a couple of months before signing up and asking for this game. Bisqwit ran the site and TSA was a god at Zelda games. Oh, and there was a continuous war between speedrunners and TASers because they felt it was cheating (willing to bet that's still going on to a lesser extent).
Heck, I hadn't even started university when I first came here (in my 7th year now). I've lived in 4 different places since I've signed up here.
Visiting back here feels like that was in a different lifetime. Makes me feel like an old man. I get the same feeling from other old sites I used to visit like gotfrag or wcreplays and it's predecessor.
I still haven't give up on those runs btw. I know I'm hopelessly patient seeing as no one will ever make them though. At least there are Let's Plays of them now.
I wonder how it will feel to come back to this site in another 5 years, assuming it's still up?
Anyone else get this type of feeling from this or other sites?
Overall it's pretty good to see that it's not filled with memes here. Pretty refreshing.
(I can't even recall what they were named back then but I know it wasn't TAS... time attack I think?)
During the first couple years of the site they were called by different names, but mostly "timeattacks" because Morimoto's SMB3 video was called a "timeattack". However, it was not long before a name change was deemed necessary to avoid confusion with both unassisted speedruns and the "timeattack modes" of certain racing (and similar) games, and there was a nice precedent in the Doom speedrunning community which predated even the tasvideos (well, nesvideos back then) site: There was a branch of the Doom speedrunning community named TAS-Doom (TAS standing for "Tools-Assisted Speedrun").
Back then the term change met some resistance. (I remember some ridiculous arguments back then, such as some people claiming there's a difference between "timeattack" and "time attack", one of them meaning the "against-the-clock mode in racing games" and the other meaning the same as "TAS". I don't even remember which was supposed to mean which. Yeah, it was ridiculous.)
Oh, and there was a continuous war between speedrunners and TASers because they felt it was cheating (willing to bet that's still going on to a lesser extent).
Actually, now most speedrunners are very accepting of TASes and enjoy watching them. Some speedrunners even use the tricks and strategies from TASes in their own speedruns (like the SM64 speedrunners, who even thanked the TASers for their runs).
Also, welcome back!
Oh, and there was a continuous war between speedrunners and TASers because they felt it was cheating (willing to bet that's still going on to a lesser extent).
I haven't really seen speedrunners saying that TASes are cheat, but I see youtube comments on TASes sometimes that say they are cheat.
Would you or someone else know where to find discussions of these old flamewars about TASes being cheating? I remember there was a pretty good one somewhere on SDA forum. Flamewars are always interesting to read :P
Visiting back here feels like that was in a different lifetime. Makes me feel like an old man. I get the same feeling from other old sites I used to visit like gotfrag or wcreplays and it's predecessor.
The same thing happens when we visit old places in real life, so I guess it works for places on the internet too.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Mlandry wrote:
Oh, and there was a continuous war between speedrunners and TASers because they felt it was cheating (willing to bet that's still going on to a lesser extent).
Thankfully that's pretty much all in the past now. I think I can safely say it was a rather silly argument sparked mostly by a few puerile speedrunners whose enormous egos could not handle the limelight being stolen away from them. A vocal minority, bolstered by the fact that it found support in some of the SDA oldbies. The majority of the speedrunning community never really cared too much about the argument.
Warp wrote:
During the first couple years of the site they were called by different names, but mostly "timeattacks"
They were also called "superplays" for some time. Probably imported from the Japanese community as well. I rather liked that term, actually. Distinct and still accurate.
Minor note: Doom runs were called "tools-assisted speedruns" but the one who came up with that name (Yonatan Donner) actually admitted shortly afterwards that "tool-assisted speedruns" would be better, but he didn't feel like redoing the logo. :)
You can actually still find that old post on the Internet Archive, near the bottom of this page: http://web.archive.org/web/19990909041821/http://doomworld.com/tas/
Would you or someone else know where to find discussions of these old flamewars about TASes being cheating? I remember there was a pretty good one somewhere on SDA forum. Flamewars are always interesting to read :P
I don't often use Godwin's Law, but when I do...
This is going to totally derail the thread, but I am so absolutely astounded by the concept that any majority has the right to oppress and subjugate a minority. Forget the TAS/Speedrun part. The core argument is "We are a majority, thus, the minority must bend to our desires, for the good of the people."
Finally, I found the post name somewhat ironic, in this context.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Just dropping my 2¢ here, this topic is absolutely worth reading all the way through even though it's pretty long. I actually thought of this topic but didn't remember where to find it. It's a perfect time capsule that shows how the debate went in those days.
Then why are bad games rejected here, when there clearly is a minority audience for them?
Nitpicking, but bad games aren't rejected. There are plenty of TASes of those published. What get rejected are TASes of games that (are deemed to) produce subpar TASes.
Anyways, that discussion has been held several times in the past. (Roughly, the two views are: 1) We should aim for quality and entertainment. 2) Every game deserves a TAS because somebody will have had played it and would probably want to see it TASed.)
Joined: 7/30/2011
Posts: 129
Location: Watching a TAS in the basement...
Warp wrote:
Aqfaq wrote:
Then why are bad games rejected here, when there clearly is a minority audience for them?
Nitpicking, but bad games aren't rejected. There are plenty of TASes of those published. What get rejected are TASes of games that (are deemed to) produce subpar TASes.
Anyways, that discussion has been held several times in the past. (Roughly, the two views are: 1) We should aim for quality and entertainment. 2) Every game deserves a TAS because somebody will have had played it and would probably want to see it TASed.)
You forget 3) Every game should have a TAS because this isn't just a site for TAS-able games; it's for TASes in general.
I am so absolutely astounded by the concept that any majority has the right to oppress and subjugate a minority.
Then why are bad games rejected here, when there clearly is a minority audience for them?
Philosoraptor, while I see your point, I do discern a difference. You see, like the largest pack of hunting velociraptors, i.e. clever girls, our judges have to decide what to hunt, i.e. publish. Now, that is fine for their pack, i.e. website. However, if they were to enforce their hunting choices, i.e. publications rules, on other packs, i.e. websites, then that would be oppression.
I hope this comment was helpful, i.e. totally useless.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Aqfaq wrote:
DarkKobold wrote:
I am so absolutely astounded by the concept that any majority has the right to oppress and subjugate a minority.
Then why are bad games rejected here, when there clearly is a minority audience for them?
I'm pretty sure this is a tongue-in-cheek comment but yeah this is a different thing entirely because it's an internal matter. The damning thing about SDA trying to dictate how we name our runs is that they're a different community entirely, yet they (meaning: the few people who cared about this) believed they had some kind of moral authority to tell us how to handle our affairs.
So to take your comparison here, it'd be as if we were not just rejecting the movies from this site, but also actively working to try and get them off of Youtube, or other sites they may appear on.
I have an idea: Let's do the same as they did, but in reverse. In other words, let's start demanding that unassisted speedruns be labeled with derogatory labels such as "imperfect", "flawed", "warning: contains human errors" and so on. This way we can make the distinction between the perfect runs and the flawed runs clearer to the viewers so that they don't get confused.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11486
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Warp wrote:
I have an idea: Let's do the same as they did, but in reverse. In other words, let's start demanding that unassisted speedruns be labeled with derogatory labels such as "imperfect", "flawed", "warning: contains human errors" and so on. This way we can make the distinction between the perfect runs and the flawed runs clearer to the viewers so that they don't get confused.
"Contains the same stuff you've seen for 9000 times in playthroughs, but pretends to be fastest possible. Skip it."
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I have an idea: Let's do the same as they did, but in reverse. In other words, let's start demanding that unassisted speedruns be labeled with derogatory labels such as "imperfect", "flawed", "warning: contains human errors" and so on. This way we can make the distinction between the perfect runs and the flawed runs clearer to the viewers so that they don't get confused.
You are only 5 years late with that. Peace has been reached.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
You are only 5 years late with that. Peace has been reached.
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
And moldy?
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Ahaha, that thread has the longest post I've ever written. :D Granted I wasn't exactly sober when writing it, but still, wow. I guess I cared a lot!
Yeah, that was pretty long, heh... I read almost the whole thread but I started to TL;DR after reaching half way in your post. But I was tired after reading everything before that.
In one way, it was fun when people weren't as aware of what a TAS is, because it created more discussion and mystery around it, like with Morimoto's Mario 3 TAS.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
nfq wrote:
In one way, it was fun when people weren't as aware of what a TAS is, because it created more discussion and mystery around it, like with Morimoto's Mario 3 TAS.
Yeah, when Morimoto realized that people thought he was playing it in real time, he wrote up an explanation of what a TAS is, apologizing in advance for potentially disappointing people.
People took this to mean he "admitted to cheating" and proceeded to galvanize him for it.
Hey Mlandry! I do get the same feeling sometimes. Nostalgic when an old post comes up somehow. But isn't this whole site pretty much about nostalgia anyway?
About those two games, if you want to see them so bad, why not take a stab at it?
Right. TAS vs Speedrunning community war. You have all missed the best part:
Thread #990: Has anyone else seen this insane crap? - Has anyone else seen this insane crap?
Legion's post on page 3 titled "Da Metroid" is vital, but has been eaten by the q?u?e?s?t?i?o?n?m?a?r?k monster.
The site referenced has since been taken down. Internet wayback machine to the rescue! You can use the links on the top right to navigate to the other pages even though the pictures are missing. I like bisqwithitler.php the best.
Well, I'm gonna go back to making fake and cheated video edits (FCVE for short) now.
Hahaha, really? Sites like that existed? That is very impressive. You can tell people were really dedicated to filling it with a huge amount of high-class idiocy!
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
The site referenced has since been taken down. Internet wayback machine to the rescue! You can use the links on the top right to navigate to the other pages even though the pictures are missing. I like bisqwithitler.php the best.
Well, I'm gonna go back to making fake and cheated video edits (FCVE for short) now.
Also, some names on this list are rather generalized (Tarzan, as an example) so everybody on the internet named Tarzan is not necessarily a cheater, though if they speak of videos or gaming accomplishments wariness is in order.
Hilarious. I also cracked up laughing at this;
an eager preteen cheater under the moniker of "Bisqwit" had finished watching Morimoto's famous cheated moSMB3.wmv, and decided to research the video. He managed to find a link leading to the download of Famtasia... unlike others aware and/or knowledgeable of Famtasia, Bisqwit, in his preadolescent naivety, let loose the hounds of hell.
This should be included in a quote about the site's history.
