Sonic goes at it again, this time being powered by Aglar and Marzo. Using improved precision and a host of new tricks, all levels but one are improved -- with the result that Robotnik is defeated over a full minute faster in in-game time.

Game objectives

  • Emulator used: Gens 11a + S3KCamhack + SolidityViewer + (partial)HitboxDisplay + LUA HUD for Genesis Sonic games
  • Aims for fastest time
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Ignores delays caused by bonus effects

Comments

Improved precision throughout the game yields improvements in most levels. New zips form the bulk of the improvement, essentially cutting 3 more levels from the game. New tricks, some of which were in the no zips run, are also used and help bring down the time even further. Hot scripting action was also used to manipulate the animals released from capsules throughout the game, bringing real time down a small bit.
The new tricks:

Rolling-jump

When Sonic jumps from a rolling state, his hitbox is set to his standing hitbox, and his vertical position is decreased by 5 pixels. This gives a boost in height, which can be used to hit ceilings and bosses faster. There is the downside of no control during the jump. Note: the vertical position is not shifted when jumping from a sprite; this becomes useful in Spring Yard Zone 3.

Jumping from rolling-jump

When landing from a rolling jump, Sonic lands 5 pixels above the ground. Normally, he is moved back to the ground itself on the next frame; but by jumping on the exact frame when Sonic lands, he will jump from the air. This puts Sonic higher up, and can be used to hit ceilings and bosses faster.
Here is how the improvements break down:
ActNew timeOld timeSavings
Green Hill 10:23::480:24::45-57
Green Hill 20:13::030:13::48-45
Green Hill 30:30::450:30::56-11
Marble 10:15::040:15::040
Marble 20:15::190:34::52-1173
Marble 30:27::250:33::04-339
Spring Yard 10:21::310:22::17-46
Spring Yard 20:26::120:28::08-116
Spring Yard 30:42::310:57::06-875
Labyrinth 10:34::070:35::02-55
Labyrinth 20:25::500:26::12-22
Labyrinth 31:03::341:07::31-237
Star Light 10:15::360:20::38-302
Star Light 20:10::210:10::38-17
Star Light 30:26::370:32::45-368
Scrap Brain 10:31::190:31::55-36
Scrap Brain 20:27::140:29::13-119
Scrap Brain 30:09::420:10::43-61
Final1:12::011:13::20-79
Total8:51::599:57::57-3958
Total improvement in in-game time: 3958 frames, or 1 minute, 5 seconds and 58 frames.
A total of 1250 frames were lost in real time longer score tallies, and the long pauses at Final Zone (see below), but some of this time was regained by manipulating the animals. Total real-time improvements are 2839 frames, or 47 seconds and 19 frames over the previous run.
The times given are the in-game timer values. The value after the final colon pair indicates the in-game frame counter, and is restricted to the 0-59 range. It is updated every frame (except during lag frames), and increments the in-game second when resetting to zero.

Stage by stage comments

Green Hill Zone 1 and 3, Spring Yard Zone acts 1 and 2

Improved precision all the way. All but Green Hill Zone 1 are identical to the no-zips run, and the animal manipulation at the end of Green Hill Zone 3 is also different.

Green Hill Zone 2

Improved precision, especially to enter the zip: Sonic is stuck in the left wall, hence he does not bounce up when he hits the buzz bomber.

Marble Zone acts 2 and 3

New zips found by Glitchman, but improved. The boss fight is also improved by the rolling-jump and jumping from rolling-jump tricks. The animals from the act 3 capsule received the most manipulation of all levels because of those seals.

Spring Yard Zone 3

New zip found by Aglar and put to use by Marzo. The boss fight is also improved by using the rolling-jump and jumping from rolling-jump tricks. Moreover, since a rolling-jump from a sprite does not shift Sonic's position, the trick is used to collide with one of the blocks in the boss fight, stopping Sonic in a convenient spot.

Labyrinth Zone (all acts)

Improved precision through and through. Act 3 is identical to the no-zips run during most of the level; but a well-timed rolling-jump saves some time at the end.

Star Light Zone 1

New zip found by Glitchman, but greatly improved: the result is that this level is now as fast as it can possibly be.

Star Light Zone 2

In the previous run, FuzZerd hit the slope and triggered a move lock which wasted a lot of frames as it delayed the zip. The new entry method is slightly slower, but pays off as it does not trigger the move lock.

Star Light Zone 3

This level borrows the damage boost trick from the no-zips run, avoids triggering move locks for the zips and vastly improves the loops on the way -- including zipping out of a loop. The boss fight is slightly improved also.

Scrap Brain Zone acts 1 and 3

Improved precision before and after the zip carry the day.

Scrap Brain Zone 2

The zip is slightly improved, and using the crusher trick used in the no-zips run saves quite some time.

Final Zone

The boss does not do anything until it finishes loading its art. The art is loaded once the camera goes past a certain point; pausing the game after this point stops the in-game timer, but the art continues loading. This trick was found by Aglar for the no-zips run.

Other comments

Aglar was responsible for most of the precision improvements in the run. We would like to thank Glitchman for the zips he found, Upthorn, FuzZerd and Carretero for the previous run.
It is conceivable (but exceedingly improbable) that the animal manipulation can be improved; it can be done by pausing the game at precise points to prevent explosions (or some animals) from loading and affecting the random number generator. The explosions that happen when the boss are also a factor here, and they were not included in the manipulation in Green Hill Zone. We are aware of no further improvements at this time.

Toothache: encode added
Mukki: Judging...
Mukki: The authors are presently looking for further improvements. Setting to delayed until they produce a .gmv that they are satisfied with.
Mukki: Updating the submission with a file that improves 35 frames of in-game time in GHZ1. 4 real time frames are gained from improved lag, but 9 real time frames were lost due to bad luck with the animals. Resuming judging.
marzojr: Updating submission text with new times.
Mukki: Setting back to delayed as further improvements are being made.
Mukki: Updating the submission file at marzojr's request. Resuming judging.
marzojr: Updating submission text with new time.
Mukki: ...and, finally, accepting as an improvement to the currently published run. Good job!
Aktan: Processing...


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15628
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #3402: Aglar & marzojr's Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog in 15:04.43
Active player (264)
Joined: 4/15/2010
Posts: 198
Location: England
Ah! I was really excited when I saw this on the workbench, especially after reading how many improvements you guys had made. Just finished watching and the run was very entertaining and a lot of things took me by surprise, especially the new Marble Zone 2 zip. Great run :) Voting yes, of course
Retired smw-96, smw any%
Active player (279)
Joined: 4/30/2009
Posts: 791
Encode in progress
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 570
Location: 33°07'41"S, 160°42'04"W
This is wonderful, I can't even suggest a screenshot, I liked this all.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Toothache wrote:
Encode in progress
Will you use my flicker algorithm? I can make HD since I ran my 3rd account XD
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Active player (279)
Joined: 4/30/2009
Posts: 791
Hm, it's a bit late now since I have it ready with the TASblend method. Unfortunately my connection sucks, so expect it in a few hours.
Joined: 5/8/2010
Posts: 177
Location: Entropy
I was hoping for an emerald run, but really good run neither the less.
JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
(No PSG "High Quality" sound, please and thank you)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Joined: 2/18/2010
Posts: 156
Location: home
All of the improvements were spectacular. It's always fun to see new ways to break an old game faster. Yes vote.
My user name is rather long, feel free to call me by htwt or tape.
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 570
Location: 33°07'41"S, 160°42'04"W
Bamahut wrote:
I was hoping for an emerald run, but really good run neither the less.
Many other people, including me, would like to see an emerald run, but when there was one, here, it was rejected, and with reasonable motivations, too. So unless an emerald run is more than very excellent I doubt it will be approved here (even though I'd probably vote yes on it).
Dark_Noob
He/Him
Experienced player (814)
Joined: 8/24/2011
Posts: 319
Location: Brazil
vote yes never vi something so amused as bugs of sonic and this game is my favourite person or thing very legal this you of vocês.
Someone who still enjoy playing fighting games ;)
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
NICE. Do I need to say more?
Skilled player (1327)
Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.
Well this is kinda demotivating for me to see. I'll look at this in a moment.
Joined: 5/8/2010
Posts: 177
Location: Entropy
Noob Irdoh wrote:
Bamahut wrote:
I was hoping for an emerald run, but really good run neither the less.
Many other people, including me, would like to see an emerald run, but when there was one, here, it was rejected, and with reasonable motivations, too. So unless an emerald run is more than very excellent I doubt it will be approved here (even though I'd probably vote yes on it).
Finding the right balance between speed/entertainment and full gameplay is hard. I do personally prefer good endings over bads! I just hope to see a quick and funny run on sonic like this one with the emeralds soon.
Techokami
He/Him
Joined: 6/23/2008
Posts: 160
Uh, problem. Game objectives states: Takes no damage However in Star Light Zone 3, you took damage from a hazard to get a midair boost! And then again in Scrap Brain Zone 2 to quickly get past some sawblade hazards. Looks like you gotta edit that objective to "Takes damage to save time", misters Otherwise, this run looks really nice! Voting yes on this.
marzojr
He/Him
Experienced player (762)
Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 964
Location: 🇫🇷 France
Techokami wrote:
Uh, problem. Game objectives states: Takes no damage
Ah, thanks; that was a copy/paste related error. I fixed the submission text.
Marzo Junior
Joined: 6/16/2011
Posts: 48
Schweeet! Been looking forward to this ever since it was mentioned in the no-zips run. Waiting for an encode, but yes vote!
Active player (304)
Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
Wow, this is incredibly impressive! Congrats guys! I think the interlude after Scrap Brain 2 was my highlight. :)
Joined: 3/18/2006
Posts: 971
Location: Great Britain
Link to video For those that click 'link to video' and read the description, let me know if you found the 'timeline' feature useful. Useful for skipping the score calculation parts too ;p If people actually use it, I will try to include it on all future videos. Stage Select Green Hill Zone 1 Green Hill Zone 2 Green Hill Zone 3 Boss 1 Marble Zone 1 Marble Zone 2 Marble Zone 3 Boss 2 Spring Yard Zone 1 Spring Yard Zone 2 Spring Yard Zone 3 Boss 3 Labyrinth Zone 1 Labyrinth Zone 2 Labyrinth Zone 3 Boss 4 Star Light Zone 1 Star Light Zone 2 Star Light Zone 3 Boss 5 Scrap Brain Zone 1 Scrap Brain Zone 2 Scrap Brain Zone 3 Final Zone Game Over Screen
Active player (407)
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708
Very nice. I liked what you did in Green Hill Zone 3
Editor, Experienced player (860)
Joined: 8/12/2008
Posts: 845
Location: Québec, Canada
YES vote for a well-made and very entertaining run.
Post subject: Re: sonic: youtube + stage select
Former player
Joined: 8/15/2004
Posts: 422
Location: Minnesota
antd wrote:
For those that click 'link to video' and read the description, let me know if you found the 'timeline' feature useful. Useful for skipping the score calculation parts too ;p If people actually use it, I will try to include it on all future videos.
I found the timeline to be an excellent idea. Letting me skip the points rundown = less boring + feeling like I'm in control + more entertainment. I also now understand why there was a no-zips run made. This run skipped a lot of stuff! Not to say that isn't a bad thing... Good job guys!
Joined: 4/3/2005
Posts: 575
Location: Spain
Very fast, and one of the most entertaining TASes of Sonic right after nitsuja's Sonic 3 TAS. Yes vote!
No.
mklip2001
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
Wow. The zips in Marble Garden 3 and Star Light Zone 3 look really nice... I'm quite surprised the game allows you to enter the walls so easily. Yes vote. Also, wonderful job again, Aglar, with optimizing the hell out of a game.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4038
Thanks for the temporary encode, antd. Very nice job with all of the optimization while keeping the run highly entertaining, Aglar and marzojr! And greatly improving the published run too! Voting Yes!