Submission Text Full Submission Page

THE GLITCH USED IN THIS RUN REQUIRES A SAVEFILE WITH AN ALREADY-COMPLETE FILE ON ONE OF THE OTHER TWO FILES - DOWNLOAD THE SAVESTATE FOR THE RUN (place in same location as m64) AS WELL AS THIS COMPLETE SAVEFILE (place in mupen64 folder's "save" folder) OR THE RUN CAN'T BE PLAYED BACK ON MUPEN. FILES CAN BE GOTTEN HERE: https://files.tasvideos.org/common/SubmissionFiles/3831S/dkr-requiredfiles.zip

Emulator Information

Emulator: Mupen64 0.5
Plugins: Jabo 1.6 (video), TAS Input Plugin (input), Jabo 1.6 (audio), RSP (RSP)
For input, make sure that controller 2 is set to "active".

Run Information

This run beats Diddy Kong Racing by abusing a "wrong warp" glitch. It finishes the game in 2-player mode, after creating the file which will be finished in 1-player mode.
The desired effect is only possible on the 1.1 release of the USA version of the game. 1.0 and the Japanese version both crash when trying to do this.
The glitch happens because the game draws certain things from the tracks mode section of the game, such as the fact that Future Fun Land is open (and this is the case because a file on the cart has already been to FFL once), and using the wrong warp, transfers them over to the fresh file that's created at the start of the run. It's done by creating the new file, exiting it, starting up 2P mode, and going to Hot Top Volcano, where an out-of-bounds glitch can be used to reach a small loading zone by the finishing line which warps the player to the main arena, which normally is never accessible in 2P mode.
The out-of-bounds glitch is done by doing a barrel roll with a speed boost at certain parts of the lava. Once OoB, it's just a matter of locating the small loading zone.
At this point in the run, it's actually faster to play as player 2 to get to Future Fun Land, because he spawns closer to it than player 1 does. Inside the FFL lobby, player 1 is in a better spot. Since you're never meant to have a plane in here, the top of the door wasn't programmed in, meaning we can simply fly over it. The reason I grind very slightly against the right side of the door is because the loading zone for the race can be touched quicker from there.
The race itself has a long cutscene at the start because the game is in 2P mode, which looks like a softlock but isn't. Once the race starts, another out-of-bounds glitch is used to beat the level really quickly, at which point the game is over and the credits roll.
Drumstick is chosen over T.T. because he's faster than T.T. in the plane.

Additional Notes

This run starts from a savefile. It's the only way to do this kind of run, which could be considered "newgame+" or "glitched" or a combination of both. As it requires a completed file to do, it's also acceptable to have Drumstick and T.T. unlocked, which is handy because they're the fastest racers in the game. This is an acceptable category in the DKR speedrunning community due to the fact that the unlocked characters are part of the cart's saves, and not the individual files' saves.
With many thanks to Toufool31, Fasch, Stacy, 0xwas, and malkieriking for critiquing my WIPs and helping to break this game to the point it's at today.

Nahoc: Will judge...
Nahoc: Delaying until author or someone else provides a verification movie.
Nahoc: This is a great TAS, well-planned and optimized. Sadly, its situation ressembles the Stafy run. This game doesn't really deserve a NG+ category. All this TAS does (mainly according to ais523's post) is take the information of a secondary completed file and glitch to the final boss, which is cool, but doesn't warrant publication (not in the vault or moon tier). There is also the fact that the author didn't provide a verification movie, which goes against the publication rules and doesn't help judging the authenticity of this run.
I am looking forward to a new any% TAS of this game if you ever make one, though. Thanks for the submission!


Editor
Joined: 3/10/2010
Posts: 899
Location: Sweden
Swordless really should have known that this would ensure. Shame on him for submitting anyway. It is a technicality and nothing more. Just get the verification movie ready. I trust Swordless, but I still support the rules. The need for a verification movie here is both to prove to disbelievers that it is a real run and to show that everybody plays by the same rules, no matter their reputation. I don't like that it had to be someone with such a great reputation here. But it is exactly those that need to be able to show that they are playing fair.
darkszero
He/Him
Joined: 7/12/2009
Posts: 181
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
For this game, the verification movie rule is pointless because the save file is used only to "unlock a feature". There are movies for other games that uses the actual data from the save file, such as [1208] SNES Chrono Trigger "newgame+" by inichi in 06:42.77. I'd like to see a verification movie made than just ignoring this rule. We do have [946] N64 Diddy Kong Racing by xenos in 2:03:02.08. With that, only Drumstick needs to be unlocked (and that's easy to do).
Joined: 1/18/2013
Posts: 10
Voted No for: 1) More of a glitch demonstration than a speedrun, since this would/should never be permitted in an any%/100% (unless timing from first new file). 2) No verification movie. While I know swordless isn't a cheater (just lazy), arbitrary rules exceptions based on the judges feelings towards a TASer is a terrible precedent to set and can only lead to drama later. 3) Similarly, it creates a slippery slope of a precedent for what's acceptable in runs. See: Starfy, Skyward Sword BiT (sub-10 any%? lol) I'll reiterate my personal belief that there should be a place on TASVideos for showing off interesting glitches that aren't demonstrated in proper speedruns, and this would be perfect for such a category.
RachelB
She/Her
Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
darkszero wrote:
For this game, the verification movie rule is pointless because the save file is used only to "unlock a feature".
No it's not, because without it, we can't prove it doesn't do anything else.
Skilled player (1737)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4979
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
nmaster64 wrote:
Skyward Sword BiT (sub-10 any%? lol)
Someone do this please. :D Edit: In case noone knows what it's about.
Joined: 1/18/2013
Posts: 10
darkszero wrote:
For this game, the verification movie rule is pointless because the save file is used only to "unlock a feature".
This isn't a traditional unlock like others in the game, that second file is required to pull some data from. Normally the "Game Pak Bonuses" data holds all the unlocks (except TT who needs "Times" data as well). Characters, Modes, and Tracks do not require Adventure data to stay unlocked. Thus, the need for an existing Adventure file means existing save/state data is being pulled from it and this glitch is not just using an "unlocked feature".
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4107)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
As I've asked before...
Mothrayas wrote:
LightningWar91 wrote:
It is Tracks mode, and not the first file, that allows the run to be so fast.
If so, would it be possible to erase the save data of the first file, and then still do the same thing this run did? If that's possible, then a run like this, starting from SRAM with save files cleared, would save much of the current controversy about this TAS. (I know of at least one instance where a run starts from SRAM that has all save games wiped).
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 11/8/2012
Posts: 49
Request for this topic to be locked until a verification movie is provided or the staff decides what to do. It's not like it's going anywhere.
ALAKTORN
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
HiipFire wrote:
Request for this topic to be locked until a verification movie is provided or the staff decides what to do. It's not like it's going anywhere.
the verification movie is the smallest of the problems, staff will decide what to do after reading people’s opinions, if you close the topic it will go nowhere I’m gonna ask my friend Stacy to see if something can be done about creating a verification movie
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
jlun2 wrote:
Judges can make mistakes (I'm not saying this is the case; I'm talking about this run that got accepted.)
(RingRush's Croc any% "glitched", judged by me) I feel really bad about it to this date, that's why I'm not judging PSX runs anymore... But a verification movie didn't helped me in this case; I should have enabled Read/Write and actually TASed the last part of the run to be able to "see" RingRush's cheat, unfortunately, I did not.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Joined: 8/4/2011
Posts: 26
Location: Sweden
Voted yes because: - I know how much work was required from the community to be able to produce such a run and I know it's a legit route to take - I thought the movie was cool and entertaining - I don't see any problem with using "newgame+", it's not any weirder than changing the settings or similar in any game before a run
Former player
Joined: 5/22/2004
Posts: 462
As someone who has played the hell out of this game, I have to vote yes. I was very entertained, mostly in a "WTF?" kind of way, but entertained nonetheless. I liked that Krunch was actually used, because he is a worthless crocodile krokodile when playing normally. And I don't really care about all the hooplah surrounding this movie. I was entertained, so I voted yes.
Post subject: This time SwordlessLink is wrong
Former player
Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 424
Location: UK
The previous time SwordlessLink and the rules were in conflict, I agreed with SwordlessLink, and so did most others, and eventually the rules were changed. This time, however, I agree with the rules. Verification movies are essential for TASVideos' integrity, and as demonstrated by Kejardon, it is possible to cheat extremely subtly using movies with embedded savestates. I have no problems with the category "glitched newgame+" or its execution here, though I don't know enough about the game to be a qualified judge about the latter, and I dispute ais523 broad statement that such a category by necessity has to be boring. Anyway, I can't vote yes for this until a verification movie is provided.
Experienced player (520)
Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116
nmaster64 wrote:
This isn't a traditional unlock like others in the game, that second file is required to pull some data from. Normally the "Game Pak Bonuses" data holds all the unlocks (except TT who needs "Times" data as well). Characters, Modes, and Tracks do not require Adventure data to stay unlocked. Thus, the need for an existing Adventure file means existing save/state data is being pulled from it and this glitch is not just using an "unlocked feature".
^This is so important, and a way bigger issue than the non-issue of getting a verification movie up before acceptance. Unless someone can show this is possible without an existing Adventure file, I don't see how this movie can be published as anything other than a "glitch demonstration" (and if is reduced to that, it is a very poor one). Taking progress from another save file isn't "New Game +"...it isn't even beating the game. Would anyone agree with an SM64 movie that starts from a 120 star file with all key and star doors unlocked? If this glitch can be done after deleting the save files, fine. Borderline, but fine. But if it can't, since Diddy Kong Racing apparently saves track data outside of the files, the glitch is stealing saved progress and not just utilizing unlockables like you would for hard mode in many games, or even (although I hate this example) the previously mentioned Funky's Weapon Glitch. I think we can all agree a category needs to start at the start and end at the end, and loading saved progress, regardless of which file you are on, is not doing the former.
Joined: 2/16/2005
Posts: 462
Here's my perspective from someone who doesn't have experience in the game. The positive: I found the run entertaining which would be a yes vote in other cases. The negative: Ignoring the problem of no verification movie. This is what the glitch involved sounds like to me: 1) Tracks are unlocked on the cart for a certain game mode from a separate 100% save and a new save is started. 2) The new game normally has to go through all the tracks irrespective of other saves but due to an OOB glitch you can enter the overworld track selection map which is normally part of a different game mode. 3) Because you already unlocked the last map for that game mode you can just drive to the last map directly. It's an interesting glitch but it does seem a lot like you are building on progress from the previous save. I wouldn't call this a valid way to 'beat the game' because you can only reach tracks you unlocked from the previous save. I think it's a borderline case. Even though I'm on the fence I'd fall in favor of publishing because it is entertaining and the game doesn't have many branches at the moment. I can't quite bring myself to vote 'yes' though due to the above problems so I'm voting 'meh'.
This signature is much better than its previous version.
Joined: 1/18/2013
Posts: 10
Take notes DKR runners: 5+ Hour Prep File, still timed. Man up.
Player (21)
Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 35
Location: Chicago, IL
Swordless Link wrote:
The reason I didn't provide the other movie file is because I didn't feel like making one when I can easily just grab a savefile that's already available that has the necessary criteria for the run already met. It's just a waste of my time and I doubt it'd be rejected for that, anyway, especially since Nahoc knows this game well and has already stated in IRC that he knows the savefile is legit.
Good enough for me. Also, the category has been changed to my liking. Easy yes vote now. Edit: Perhaps the site rules should be changed so that in newgame+ runs, generally accepted-as-legit savestate files can be used as opposed to verification files for the convenience of the runner, so that instead of wasting valuable time spending hours making a file that's basically going to be wasted and probably not even watched, the runner can focus on optimization of the actual newgame+ run. Swordless's OoT submission has already caused a change to site rules; why not this time?!
If at first you don't succeed, load your savestate and try again
Editor, Player (44)
Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 1029
nmaster64 wrote:
5+ Hour Prep File, still timed. Man up.
I am both amused and happy that someone would make verification runs in a single segment run, where you have to redo them on each reset (because otherwise it wouldn't be single segment), in order to count the time against the total time. Lends some perspective to the "a verification movie would take too much time" argument. I'd imagine for most games that are interesting to TAS, you can complete a game unoptimized, with occasional savestate use, way faster than you can make a remotely optimized TAS of it. (From my own experiences TASing: it's been over two years TASing NetHack so far, it takes me around 10 hours to complete single-segment.)
Guga
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Joined: 1/17/2012
Posts: 838
Location: Chile
TrenchAce wrote:
Edit: Perhaps the site rules should be changed so that in newgame+ runs, generally accepted-as-legit savestate files can be used as opposed to verification files for the convenience of the runner, so that instead of wasting valuable time spending hours making a file that's basically going to be wasted and probably not even watched, the runner can focus on optimization of the actual newgame+ run. Swordless's OoT submission has already caused a change to site rules; why not this time?!
Do you want us to change the rules because Swordless is lazy? lol
Player (21)
Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 35
Location: Chicago, IL
Guga wrote:
TrenchAce wrote:
Edit: Perhaps the site rules should be changed so that in newgame+ runs, generally accepted-as-legit savestate files can be used as opposed to verification files for the convenience of the runner, so that instead of wasting valuable time spending hours making a file that's basically going to be wasted and probably not even watched, the runner can focus on optimization of the actual newgame+ run. Swordless's OoT submission has already caused a change to site rules; why not this time?!
Do you want us to change the rules because Swordless is lazy?
touché, haha. But Swordless does raise a good point, because it's definitely a huge waste of time if other people can verify that it is indeed a valid savestate. I don't see any good reason why it shouldn't be considered for acceptance, besides this site's incredibly subjective rules that it already lives by and are continually changing anyways as better ways and methods are being discovered.
If at first you don't succeed, load your savestate and try again
Joined: 1/18/2013
Posts: 10
TrenchAce wrote:
Swordless does raise a good point, because it's definitely a huge waste of time if other people can verify that it is indeed a valid savestate. I don't see any good reason why it shouldn't be considered for acceptance...
If you can't spare the relatively tiny amount of time for a verification movie it seems odd you'd have time to make a good TAS to begin with...especially for a game this short.
Joined: 2/18/2010
Posts: 156
Location: home
nmaster64 wrote:
TrenchAce wrote:
Swordless does raise a good point, because it's definitely a huge waste of time if other people can verify that it is indeed a valid savestate. I don't see any good reason why it shouldn't be considered for acceptance...
If you can't spare the relatively tiny amount of time for a verification movie it seems odd you'd have time to make a good TAS to begin with...especially for a game this short.
This gives me an idea, but how much it would end up being used. Perhaps instead of having the author of the TAS make the verification movie for "newgame+" type runs, community members that don't have interests in making TASes of games, but are enjoy playing the games could make verification movies for TASers that wish to focus more on the actual run based on an otherwise obtained savestate? I know not everyone on the site TASes, but it would be one way that people that want to contribute more could do so.
My user name is rather long, feel free to call me by htwt or tape.
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
The lack of a verification movie is a problem, but one that I believe could be rectified. I really do believe that swordless is on the up and up, so I don't think that it should be rejected for this reason at this time. The problem that I have is that I think that the whole premise of this run (as well as the category that accepting it would create) is against the spirit of what a time run is. So /agree with everyone who suggested that the completion time include the time required to make the other save file. Sorry swordless.
Has never colored a dinosaur.
Player (21)
Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 35
Location: Chicago, IL
heldtogetherwithtape wrote:
nmaster64 wrote:
This gives me an idea, but how much it would end up being used. Perhaps instead of having the author of the TAS make the verification movie for "newgame+" type runs, community members that don't have interests in making TASes of games, but are enjoy playing the games could make verification movies for TASers that wish to focus more on the actual run based on an otherwise obtained savestate? I know not everyone on the site TASes, but it would be one way that people that want to contribute more could do so.
That's actually a really good idea, and it kind of goes along with what I already said that we will be using generally accepted savestates, and let's more devoted TASers focus on that. Then, verification movies can be made and the savestates that are created after completion of the movie can be used by anyone wishing to TAS a newgame+. I like this idea a lot.
Twelvepack wrote:
The problem that I have is that I think that the whole premise of this run (as well as the category that accepting it would create) is against the spirit of what a time run is. So /agree with everyone who suggested that the completion time include the time required to make the other save file.
Sorry, Twelvepack, but I think you're 100% wrong because by your logic then this run: (http://tasvideos.org/1205M.html) among others, would have to include the other save file time, which is absolutely ludicrous IMO. The fact that the newgame+ uses SRAM to glitch to the endgame of a different file is irrelevant in the same way that dungeons in the Legend of Zelda have different layouts in the 2nd quest as they do in the first quest. Edit: Basically, it's irrelevant how exactly the glitch in the newgame+ file works (by accessing saved data); it's only relevant that the glitch exists solely in the newgame+ file, and it must be active in order to complete the game. If you are against newgame+ runs as a rule, then that's a completely separate issue.
If at first you don't succeed, load your savestate and try again
Joined: 1/18/2013
Posts: 10
TrenchAce wrote:
Sorry, Twelvepack, but I think you're 100% wrong because by your logic then this run: (http://tasvideos.org/1205M.html) among others, would have to include the other save file time...
You should read the thread before calling people "100% wrong". As was previously explained, this works differently than unlocks in other games (or even the same game).
nmaster64 wrote:
This isn't a traditional unlock like others in the game, that second file is required to pull some data from. Normally the "Game Pak Bonuses" data holds all the unlocks (except TT who needs "Times" data as well). Characters, Modes, and Tracks do not require Adventure data to stay unlocked. Thus, the need for an existing Adventure file means existing save/state data is being pulled from it and this glitch is not just using an "unlocked feature".