Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2631
BombAHead wrote:
Bah. Maybe I should just take a stab at this myself. If, for no other reason, than to prove that Zapdos is useless. Completely, utterly useless.
I'm not arguing that Zapados isn't useless. He is. I'm just pointing out that if you're going to use time to get as a reason not to get him then you should realize that with luck manipulation it doesn't take very long at all.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Well, if you need an Electric, would it work to grab a Pikachu from the Veridian Forest?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
Alright then, here's WIP 1[/url]. Movie stops in front of Vermilion Gym (yes, the real Vermilion.. I need to refresh my memory of the English location names), at 0:43 in-game time, which makes it 16 minutes faster than the SDA run at that location. Is a sub 2 hour run possible? Probably not. I'd probably have to keep this pace and find some pretty big timesavers on top of that in order to accomplish it.. and after thinking about it the really big timesaver (skipping the Silph Co. tower to avoid picking up the Silph Scope) probably isn't possible because I don't think I can access the Gym in that city without chasing out the Rockets in the tower. Besides the one mistake mentioned above, I made one other change from the SDA run's route which may or may not have lost me time, and that was defeating the Cerulean Gym immediately after visiting Bill and picking up the Dig TM. Though, after thinking about it, stalling it until after I get Cut likely won't help me - without the levels I get from the Gym I doubt I'd be able to one hit 2 or 3 Pokemon I manage to do so afterwards, and seeing that I only lost maybe 15 seconds at most by doing so and seeing that each attack takes quite a bit of in game time to do, it may be just enough to offset those 15 seconds. Besides that, any improvements to the run will probably come from better resource management and probably also inducing other Pokemon to miss more often. (I've long ago given up the idea of letting this be a final version, and thus am not testing beyond 20-30 frames for this.) I also may not go and beat the Vermilion Gym right away.. I'm currently looking over the possibility of skipping it and just going right at Cerulean instead and progressing on until I pick up Fly, then when I get a chance, Flying back to Vermilion and defeating the Gym then, and also looking into other possible timesavers as well. And, to answer the Strength slave question, I do have an idea for that - Snorlax. Catching it will almost certainly be faster than trying to defeat it, since it has loads of HP and will likely be impossible to one hit once I reach it.. and I just toss Strength onto it instead of Blastoise. (Marowak, on the other hand, is weak to Water and should be quite easy to one hit once I get that far.) Anyways, if anyone has any questions, fire away.
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
Personally, I think this would be the fastest route: 1) Play as normal up to Cerulean 2) Hit up Bill's, then go to Vermillion. 3) SS Anne, beat Surge (using Dig-toting Wartortle/Blastoise) 4) Grab Bike Voucher, head to Cerulean again. Beat Misty, get bike, head off east. 5) Go get a Pokedoll for ghost tower, Ice Beam TM, water for the guard, and other maintenance-related stuffs. Smite Erika with Ice Beam. 6) Ghost Tower -> Get Fly -> Beat/Take Snorlax -> Fuschia -> Surf HM -> Strength HM -> Beat Koga 7) Fly back to Saffron, beat Sabrina. 8) Fly to Pallet, Surf to Cinnabar. 9) You should be at a high enough level by this point to use Repels and walk to the secret key without having to deal with wild pokemon. 10) Beat Blaine, fly to Viridian, beat Giovanni. 11) Head west, beat Blue, take out Victory Road. 12) Run the E4. I'm sure my tired brain missed a few critical bits, but... the SS Anne -> Surf - > Misty -> Bike bit... SHOULD be the fastest way. Also, you might wanna navigate the field east of Vermillion. There's a hidden Max something-or-other or two at a lone tree and then past the guard house before Snorlax 2.
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
Off the top of my head, that's not doable since you have to beat Misty first to be able to use Cut outside of battle, thus you can't beat Surge before her. I don't think there'll be all that much deviation from the run from SDA since so far every time I've tried to take a major path that deviates from it, it always winds up being either slower anyways or there's something that I need to get beforehand before I can pass (which the SDA run does).
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716
Your run looks great so far even though when I watch it, it seems to get interrupted every 5 seconds by an error message which only occurs when you're in a battle (ie. when you're just walking/biking around, no error message occurs). Does anyone know how to fix this? The error message says: "Error creating file C:\ ... \Pocket Monsters Green (v1.0)(J)[S].sav" Thanks in advance, and again, good job so far on the run.
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2631
Tilus wrote:
Is a sub 2 hour run possible? Probably not. I'd probably have to keep this pace and find some pretty big timesavers on top of that in order to accomplish it.. and after thinking about it the really big timesaver (skipping the Silph Co. tower to avoid picking up the Silph Scope) probably isn't possible because I don't think I can access the Gym in that city without chasing out the Rockets in the tower.
The dead Marowak prevents you from going all the way through Pokemon Tower. So you can't get the Poke Flute. It's a forced encounter, and if you don't have the Scope and you run away it moves you back a space.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2631
HSZZZ wrote:
Your run looks great so far even though when I watch it, it seems to get interrupted every 5 seconds by an error message which only occurs when you're in a battle (ie. when you're just walking/biking around, no error message occurs). Does anyone know how to fix this? The error message says: "Error creating file C:\ ... \Pocket Monsters Green (v1.0)(J)[S].sav" Thanks in advance, and again, good job so far on the run.
Is the directory the file residing in read-only?
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
The dead Marowak prevents you from going all the way through Pokemon Tower. So you can't get the Poke Flute. It's a forced encounter, and if you don't have the Scope and you run away it moves you back a space.
That's where the Pokedoll mentioned earlier in the thread comes in.. I heard about this glitch as well. What I understand of it is that if you throw a Pokedoll at it the Marowak'll reveal itself without needing to use the Silph Scope. Haven't tried it myself, but seeing it's so widespread it's likely true.
Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 57
Tilus wrote:
And, to answer the Strength slave question, I do have an idea for that - Snorlax. Catching it will almost certainly be faster than trying to defeat it, since it has loads of HP and will likely be impossible to one hit once I reach it.. and I just toss Strength onto it instead of Blastoise. (Marowak, on the other hand, is weak to Water and should be quite easy to one hit once I get that far.)
The fastest way is to run. And the marowak can't be caught. But you could run from it too :P
I won't give up unless my victory is assured!
Emulator Coder
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 453
Location: Norway
I have a request, if you are going to do a run in this game, can it be done in english? :P. It was rather boring to watch when I didn't know what happened :P
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Oh sure, the final run could be. But should it be done with Red or Blue? (Or Green or Yellow? Hmm?)
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 3/14/2005
Posts: 49
wait, now I'm lost. Are we going for a legit run with mass luck randomization or are we using a combo of RNG and Missingno to achieve the best time? Edit:Ohh, ok I get it. I still may be a little skeptical about finishing the game gungho with Blastoise only, but then again, so was I with Dragon Warrior. :/
Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 57
Tilus wrote:
I also may not go and beat the Vermilion Gym right away.. I'm currently looking over the possibility of skipping it and just going right at Cerulean instead and progressing on until I pick up Fly, then when I get a chance, Flying back to Vermilion and defeating the Gym then, and also looking into other possible timesavers as well.
Missed this. You need to defeat Lt. Surge to use Fly.
I won't give up unless my victory is assured!
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716
The directory was read-only, thanks for the help Omni. EDIT: Hmm. I made the directory and sub-folders contained within not read-only, but everytime I apply the change the folders automatically switch back to read-only once I reopen the properties window. If it helps, my rom files are contained in a folder that is located in My Documents (specifically C:\Documents and Settings\2004\My Documents\ROMs)
Joined: 3/14/2005
Posts: 49
WOW! I definetly think a Blastoise only run is possible after seeing the Dragon Warrior movie... But its just that Mewtwo is so...broken I just dont quite get it yet.
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 104
Ego Buff wrote:
Tilus wrote:
I also may not go and beat the Vermilion Gym right away.. I'm currently looking over the possibility of skipping it and just going right at Cerulean instead and progressing on until I pick up Fly, then when I get a chance, Flying back to Vermilion and defeating the Gym then, and also looking into other possible timesavers as well.
Missed this. You need to defeat Lt. Surge to use Fly.
I think you need to do some going back and forth between Vermillion and Cerulean.. it probably can't be avoided by any legit means. Hence my suggestion was to catch an Abra near Cerulean and using Teleport (does same job as Dig, but can be used in places where you can't dig). Alternatively, if you go to Vermillion and you already have Dig, can you enter the diglett cave and dig inside there to shortcut back to Cerulean?
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
You know what? After having my monitor go out for a few days and playing through my own hard copy of English Pokemon Red (before finally getting a new monitor about an hour ago), I came up with that very same bright idea. =P Unfortunately, it only seems Teleport works in the outdoors (in other words, it won't work in any buildings), just as Dig only works in caves, thus the only real usage for it would be to allow it to work as a quasi-Fly before I pick up the ability proper. Because of this, I don't see it taking off any more than a few minutes, and it probably won't be enough to push the run under the 2 hour mark. And no, Dig only takes you back to the entrance from where you entered the cave, from what I remember.
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
Yay, more progress[/url]! I'm currently at Lavender Town, equivalent to the end of part 7 of the SDA run. In-game time is 52 minutes, which makes it a whopping 24 minutes faster than the SDA run at this point! My confidence in being able to pull out a sub-2 hour run is beginning to rise.. Most of the time saved between this WIP and the last one came from avoiding 6 trainer fights in the Rock Cave. Also, after watching a good bit more of the SDA run, it seems I've greatly underestimated the value of Dig. It does work in buildings as well - it seems anywhere that's not outdoors and has trainers in it can be Dug out of, and like Teleport it takes you all the way back to the last Pokemon center you visited. This will make Teleport not quite as valuable as I originally thought.. I'll have to think about it. Summing everything up, after looking everything through this appears to be the route I'll be taking in the final run (some parts will require testing though, correct me if there's something here that I can't do in this particular order): - Start the game, take Squirtle as starter - Take a mad dash through the first part of the game, not healing and surviving on just new abilities learnt naturally up until I reach Cerulean City. Either in Pewter or Cerulean I buy four Pokeballs (I'll need to determine which is closer). First (Pidgey/Spearow) and (Bellsprout/Paras) I meet after this point that's not out of the way I catch - these will be my Fly and Cut slaves, respectively. - Enter the Cerulean Pokemon center, healing and setting the Dig/Teleport point there - Go north and run through the massive gauntlet of trainers to get to Bill's house, catching an Abra along the way. After I pick up the SS Anne ticket and exit Bill's house, Teleport back to the Cerulean City Pokemart. - Fight the Rocket that stole the Dig TM, teach Dig to Wartortle (replaces Tail Whip), then head south toward Vermilion. - Pick up the Bike Voucher, then head to the SS Anne and fight Rival, then get Cut HM. Walk all the way off boat, watch unnecessarily long cutscene, then Teleport back to Cerulean. - Get the Bike, defeat Misty to get Badge 2 and Bubblebeam TM, then teach Cut to Cut slave, Bubblebeam to Wartortle (replaces Bubble), then head to Vermilion while cutting down tree in southern part of Cerulean. - Defeat Lt. Surge to get Badge 3, Dig back to Cerulean. - Head east out of Cerulean (Cut tree south of town then use eastern path, cut down second tree blocking path), then go through path and through Rock Tunnel to enter Lavender. Heal at Pokemon Center, also setting Teleport/Dig point to Lavender Town. - Continue along path to the west, going through underground tunnel to get to Celadon City. - Go immediately into department store, pick up a Pokedoll and two bottles of Fresh Water. Give one to the little girl to pick up Ice Beam TM (use on Wartortle, replaces Water Gun). - Go west of town and pick up Fly HM. Teach to Fly slave. Fly back to Celadon. - Head to western part of town and defeat Erika to pick up Badge 4. Dig out of Gym back to Lavender Town. - Go up Pokemon Tower (around here, Wartortle will probably evo to Blastoise), using Pokedoll on the Ghost to reveal it without needing Silph Scope, defeat/run from it to move it out of the way. Continue toward the top, saving the old man and picking up the Pokeflute. Fly back to Celadon City. - Head west again, play Pokeflute to awaken Snorlax blocking Cycling Road, capturing it with the final Pokeball (this will be my Strength slave). Continue on, going allllll the way down Cycling Road to Fuchsia City. - Here's where it gets a little tricky, the order of these next three actions may be shuffled around a bit.. First, go to Safari Zone and pick up the Gold Teeth and the Surf HM (teach to Blastoise, replaces Bubblebeam). Fly back to Fuchsia City. Second, go into the Gym and defeat Koga for Badge 5. Finally, go back out and go a bit to the east and give back the Gold Teeth to the Warden to get the Strength HM (goes onto Strength slave). Fly back to Celadon/Lavender (whichever one will get me to Silph Co tower fastest) and head into Saffron City by giving the guard the other water bottle. - Head up through the loooooooong Silph Co tower, getting the Master Ball (which I won't use anyways) and access to the Saffron Gym. Defeat Sabrina for Badge 6. Dig out of Gym, then Fly back to Pallet Town. - Surf downward to Cinnabar Island and enter the abandoned building to get the Secret Key, then straight into the Gym and defeat Blaine for Badge 7. Dig out of Gym, then Fly back to Viridian City. - Defeat Giovanni for Badge 8, Dig out of Gym, then Fly back to Viridian City. Head east toward Victory Road. - Travel through Victory Road, use any Rare Candies I may have obtained, heal for the final time at the Pokemon Center at Indigo Plateau, then go up to fight the Elite 4 + 1. - Sit back and enjoy the ending. Anyways, if there are any questions/comments, as always, fire away..
Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 57
Aren't you going to get body slam?
I won't give up unless my victory is assured!
Joined: 8/7/2004
Posts: 51
You might want to teach strength to Blastoise, too/instead, if he doesn't get a better normal type attack by the time this is done. But it would be neat to see Snorlax caught first try at full health. :)
mew.
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
Yeah, I'm getting Body Slam, I just had forgotten that it's a TM... and after looking it up in a guide it seems I've already missed it! Argh >_< (It was back on the SS Anne..) Anyways, for this current run I'm probably actually going to go ahead and give Strength to Blastoise and run from Snorlax instead of capturing it, and see how well Strength works as an attack against most of the later Pokemon.
Joined: 8/7/2004
Posts: 51
Body slam is slightly more powerful and has a chance of paralizing your foe. You'd probably want to avoid that anyways since that would take a precious 1/2 second as the game says "Enemy something is paralized!"
mew.
Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 57
It might save that 1/2 second as there is no "enemy missed" or "you took 0,0001 damage" message after the "Enemy used an attack" message. And against faster opponents, it is always faster to paralyze. And the base damage difference between strenght and body slam is 5, and it is really not that much (Bubble has BD 20, water gun 40, bubblebeam 60, surf 95, dig 100, strenght 80, BS 85, ignoring the damage bonus blastoise gets by being the same type than the attack).
I won't give up unless my victory is assured!
Joined: 3/5/2005
Posts: 47
Location: Italy
what rom have you used? ....
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