You dont need to hit him in the head (this is some old stupid folklore), it doesnt matter what part you are stricking, he can still get stuck with the correct timing hitting in legs, i done that numerous times.
This boss is NO challenge whatever the rules you put in, i can beat it in less 200 frames with the exact same strategy than dracula.
And like for ALL others boss, his dieing sequence (+ open the door) take WAY longer than just skiping him, basicly its a pointless boss like most others.
You can get near his head later on the fight too, and doesnt require the bat, you can do it with just a super jump once he start to shoot fireball (just time it correctly near the end) or just fly with mist.
Ah, and knife crash is richter only also :p (richter can just airdash his ass without any trouble, this is NOT anywhere near entertaining, just lame)
Alucard doesn't need the knife item crash; his firing rate is "as fast as you can mash buttons" which is more than enough to stunlock Galamoth (Richter's base firing rate is horribly slow, in contrast). I've beaten him with nothing but knives and a heart refresh before.
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woh, I had no idea about the fist AI loop. When I was doing a no-weapons/etc run I did end up killing him mostly by looping it, but lets face it, the game is easy unassisted, and gets absurd when it's assisted.
I'd love to see some type of play-around style run with no specific goal apart from entertainment where the tougher portions of the game are beaten intentionally handy capped.
Link to video
Comments are welcome :D
Edit: the final time is actually 13:55 after fixing wolf climbing and using medusa shield on dracula.
While rewatching this i figured a new route, in order to eliminate the wolf climbing at the end, but some research is going to be required.
The only way for alucard to move vertically faster with the relics he have are fireboomerangs, theres a bug with them (i use in 100% one time...)
Link to video
At first look its still not worthy because im using it while grounded, but klmz once told me he managed to do that trick mid-air, wich mean _after_ a double jump, so the height gain would be amazing in that case and sufficiant to cross shaft pit.
Ive timed the first section climbing about 30seconds, and the second one about 20seconds.
Im getting 2000$ before library, and the spellbooks can drop 1000$ bags, im not sure yet wether 6 or 4 boomerangs are required, but they worth 1000$ per.
I think it should be possible to farm the books for 2000$ or 4000$ warranting the longest climbing, 6000$ or 10000$ sound like a lot tho, so maybe the last climbing cant be avoided.
If that route was to become reality, it would realy save a bunch of time.
Theres also the inverted keep where i use a little the wolf rise, but, its only 5 morphs long, so it probly doesnt worth the money investisment.
Dirty sram is required btw, or the librarian would trigger a (very long...) dialogue otherwise, im not even sure if he would sell fire boomerangs in a fresh file.
edit: preview of what it look for real
Link to video
really nice run, and the fact that more time can be saved is even more mindblowing. at about what time (game time preferably) is drac killed (as richter)?
Theres a few in the marble gallery, but they are _far_ away, i havent timed it but very unlikely to worth going for.
Spellbooks are giving me 1000$ (1 boomerang) per kill, then theres those magic book giving 2000$ per kill. So overall i doubt theres anything faster than that.
It cost me 2425 frames to gather the 12000$ (about 40 seconds).
Im not realy in the mood to redo 50 times my movie, so for the sake of simplification, im getting the 12 boomerang now, it might save nothing or just 5 seconds, but it will look much more awesome without long wolf climbing.
Later on when i feel like it, ill try with 6 boomerangs instead, it may go a bit faster (in the long term...).
(I want to underline here this is quite impossible to predict with precision what could happen or not, since im not same level ect... so it would be dumb to go for 6 now and later on find 12 is better, i prefer the other way around for my own sanity)
If anyone is interested in TASing this game (not sure if arukAdo still TASes), a new glitch has been discovered that speeds up every category of Symphony of the Night except low%. If you get the Faerie Card and have the faerie speak just before you enter the shop, you can pause and do the garnet selling underflow glitch without needing to get the Sword Card/do Sword Brothers:
Link to video
This saves a lot of time since Faerie Card is super easy to get. Besides any%, pacifist can be optimized a lot with this and other discoveries. (You should talk to romscout, Mecha Richter or Kainblox if you're interested in doing pacifist as they'll know what the new TAS route would be)
While that's interesting, I'm not clear on why it will speed up every run. What does unlimited money allow you to do faster, and will it make up for the time cost of getting the Fairy Card and actually doing all that selling? Granted the above is not a TAS, but I can't imagine a TAS doing it much faster than, say, 45 seconds, which is a pretty significant time cost that would have to be overcome by faster strategies elsewhere in the run.
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While that's interesting, I'm not clear on why it will speed up every run. What does unlimited money allow you to do faster, and will it make up for the time cost of getting the Fairy Card and actually doing all that selling? Granted the above is not a TAS, but I can't imagine a TAS doing it much faster than, say, 45 seconds, which is a pretty significant time cost that would have to be overcome by faster strategies elsewhere in the run.
You already use a DIFFERENT strategy to do the selling glitch in any% - you get the sword card and the shield rod, and you use Sword Brothers to trigger the selling glitch. The Faerie Card is literally right outside of the shop and allows you to do the same glitch.
The reason why you want to do the selling glitch depends on category but you always get a duplicator (which allows you to use consumables infinitely), buffalo stars (a consumable that does a shitload of damage and can be backdash cancelled into and out of), a mana prism (restores MP), etc.
Other categories, the story is similar - the money glitch can either be done faster, or is now so fast it becomes viable for the category and changes the route a lot.
Ah, fair point. I hadn't remembered the selling glitch being used in the existing runs, hence my confusion. Thanks for the clarification.
You're actually correct - the any% TAS does not currently use the selling glitch. (I didn't watch it when I wrote my last post due to lack of time, so I was going off of memory)
Summary of why it doesn't:
-The TAS uses luck mode to big toss past and skip Death (in addition to many other big tosses), keeping the Alucard equipment, so buying good equipment isn't needed.
-The TAS uses a heart refresh/levelup seamline to get to the library card BEFORE outer wall - so by the time it's at the library it hasn't even gone to the soul of wolf/where the garnet is.
-The TAS manipulates gold for just enough potions and fire boomerangs for the game and gets everything first try. So, it doesn't need duplicator for them. (edit: I think it uses a fairy glitch to underflow potion count? the menus are open for such little time I can't tell lol)
-The TAS skips bat, instead opting for flamberge (which it dropped first try)/wolf rises plus big tosses plus leap stone jumpkicks to get around fast. Since there's no use of infinite wing smashes, mana isn't needed to keep them going. What mana refills are needed are grabbed on level ups. So, it's not needed to duplicate mana prisms.
-The TAS is skilled at using heart refresh/levelup, bigtoss/levelup, etc combos to open seamlines instead of needing double heart refreshes, so duplicating heart refreshes isn't needed.
-The TAS luck manipulates the Mablung Sword to drop (acts like a shield rod), alongside the Medusa Shield from earlier - this enables a combo that does devastating amounts of damage (actually two combos since you also have the alucard shield :) ), so duplicating buffalo stars isn't needed. It even allows the TAS to end input early since the medusa shield special attacks for you.
Shop glitch should change the pacifist route, though, and maybe other esoteric categories (non-luck mode, all bosses, no oob...) and pacifist TAS has a lot of known improvements but no TASer to do them.
(It's also worth noting that you can do 30Hz vibration in the sotn shop - so a TAS version of the shop glitch would sell much faster)
ed: this might speed up pacifist
Link to video
ed: current pacifist rta route, run by romscout: http://www.twitch.tv/romscout/c/2037590
Erhm, probly a very late answer but, this could mean that the actual glitch is about having 2 concurrent speech rather than say a graphical overflow coming out of the sword animation, thats interresting, and maybe you could do that with any familliar? or anything that produce a voice-over on demand...
For the any% the main issue to optimize further is same than any other good quality movie on the site, you have to trade a sequence with another that would improve signifiently the run; either increase your move speed or reduce the actual distance to the goal, for that movie everything is going on so insanly smooth and its so straight forward unless its a total new warping technique I dont see it happening, thats or frame whoring (at a high level of bitching...).
Theres another movie published on the site [1592] PSX Castlevania: Symphony of the Night "all relics, best ending" by arukAdo in 57:20.60
Its "All Relics & Best Ending" and its improvable by fair marging, not exactly sure if it would fit or not to use that new trick, it could probly increase the speed, yet im not sure by itself it would increase the quality of the movie; its more a glitch fest/showoff movie than a "perfect" tas.
The pacifist movie was rejected, doubt it would have help a lot to get accepted by then but maybe if the movie was much shorter ...
#3201: arukAdo's PSX Castlevania: Symphony of the Night "Pacifist" in 28:48.67
Ah, one reason I didnt glitched the bat floor directly like shown on your video is an hidden movie goal; wanted to keep HR uses to a minimun, like "fake" kills (2).
Theres probly dozen ways to go faster by having more "fake" kills, more shiftlines or wolf levitate, but that fairy money trick could cut a huge back'n'forth for sword card, thats sure.
Hello arukAdo :)
Another TAS I've seen requested for symphony of the night is low% relics, after a new route was found where you get big tossed by a spike ball in the chapel to get the mystic pendant for double MP regen. Though thinking about it, I think a TAS of low% would be way more like the any% TAS than anything else. You'd be able to use the MP regen glitch (where the game pauses the same frame you regen MP) as well as manipulate mana prism drops/money for mana prism purchases, you could manipulate boomerang drops for rapid rises, you should be able to manipulate the same weapon and shield drops any% does, etc.
By low%relic maybe you mean something like this?
Link to video
It would be incredibly complicated to tas, long and boring movie at normal speed, always thought it would be a nice april fool.
Not sure how the mana regen matter much, the whole thing is surely impossible to match without heavy rerecording or savestates.
Otherwise the only reason I never did low% tas is the inherent slowness of the wolf levitation, and indeed relic-wise its only 3 relics for any% wich is the lowest youll get at such speed, so its almost same result just slower.
Ok ok, so I watched again the any% and trying to figure the con and pro for that new money trick, it might be worth in the end to use it;
-supposly you dont have any jewels, thats sort of a problem, might be solved by drops alltho im not completly sure how/where without loosing too much time.
-you gain a fair ammount of frames from avoiding kills before Library; no more money needed, this is critical in the tas as any kill have a huge impact on big toss later on, supposly you could gain back some toss from the older movie, as you would be lower lvl at clock tower, this is extremly hard to predict and require heavy testings.
-lower level at Dracula mean lower stats; the medusa spell may need an extra cast, the guardian may need extra trowable but you could also buy better ones.
-more boomrangs; you could climb easier the reverse chapel/clock tower, likely a big time saver there (avoid using trust sword for exemple), you could also have several different movements to use.
While watching the movie it is pretty obvious to me the biggest part to whore/shave frames off is in the Library, the huge issue about it is luck manipulation, mixed with lag frames from psxjin.
This whole problem would be eliminated with that new trick, alltho; you would require to know exactly how many boomerang to buy :p
Having access to tickets/mushroom is also a big one; no more worry about maxing ATT stat, under poison you can dive kick the guys in keep without killing them too quick, may not work with balloon pod tho.
Its definitly worth a try at least, but theres some unknow paramaters and its a lot of work for saving small times (may end up big alltogether...), ill try to have a look at it when I got some free time.
Alright, I'm working on a Pacifist/0 kill TAS, but I'm not really sure what to count as breaking the rules:
- Killing Doppelganger10 (it doesn't increment your kill counter)
- Destroying Flea Armors' armor (experience but no kill)
- Revenge teching bosses that can be skipped through other means
- Killing Blood Skeletons (doesn't increment kills, they just get back up anyways)
Obviously, it isn't really "pacifist" to use violence when it isn't required, but I'm willing to do any of the above if it makes the run faster or more interesting and everyone else is alright with it.
In addition to being pacifist/0 kills at Shaft, you should be level 1/no gained experience.
As long as you follow both those criteria anything goes. It's worth calling the category pacifist/level 1 or something like that to convey what getting no kills 'means'/'is bundled with'
For any%, I'm guessing your best two options are to either get a Zircon drop from one of the Mermen in the Entrance, or get the Onyx in the back of the library. The Zircon is only worth 150, so I don't know if the extended amount of time it would take just to sell the amount you need would add up too much or not. The Onyx is 3000, but would require going halfway through the Library both ways.
Failing either of those, the best way might be to just go through the Outer Wall as normal and get the Garnet.
Is there some sort of trick to the prologue drac fight? The first form, specifically. I've been trying all sorts of different things for days now, and I can only get as far as landing the first blade dash. I've never gotten the second one to connect, period, leaving me almost 30 frames behind par.
Is there some sort of trick to it, or is it just really, incredibly, obnoxiously precise? I don't want to just copy arukAdo's inputs for it, but I seriously cannot figure out any other way to do it. This has been a major roadblock to me doing much of any work on this game, and I would really appreciate it if anyone could help me figure it out.
Yeah well, entrance would be wasting only a couple of seconds, its bad, but affordable, for the garnet if you meant like... before the bat relic in one of those vases, thats more like half a minute to afford, and im not exagerating since youll fight a boss and lib card to come back, the third option outerwall is ... sort of moot since it would mean to waste nearly 2 minutes to get to library.
The low value of the zircoon could be a problem if the selling time exceed say... well 30 seconds, then the garnet would be better, yet its still the same issue; I dont know exactly how many $$ will be required.
For the prologue.... theres glitches involved, the most important one been the damage increase with holy water, theres no "exact" timing to cast your spell but tossing a bottle after will increase damage, youll have to figure timing, as they change depending your or drac position and cast time, AFAIK you can still whore a dozen of frames further than me.
Pro tip: to change drac position at start as well as where he jump, its all predetermined by candles you destroy before entering the room, im using the best outcome IIRC in any% but if you have different goals for the prologue you may adjust to something different.
The best timing I know off is in the old pcsx movie [1363] PSX Castlevania: Symphony of the Night by arukAdo & pirate_sephiroth in 19:01.63, probly a few frames faster than current any%
Yeah well, entrance would be wasting only a couple of seconds, its bad, but affordable, for the garnet if you meant like... before the bat relic in one of those vases, thats more like half a minute to afford, and im not exagerating since youll fight a boss and lib card to come back, the third option outerwall is ... sort of moot since it would mean to waste nearly 2 minutes to get to library.
The low value of the zircoon could be a problem if the selling time exceed say... well 30 seconds, then the garnet would be better, yet its still the same issue; I dont know exactly how many $$ will be required.
I forgot about Lesser Demon entirely. That in mind, you're right, the onyx can't be it. Could you even Library Card back from there? Besides the one that you used to go from Marble Gallery to the Library in the first place, what card could you pick up?
As for the Zircon, selling it's almost 60 times slower than the current shop glitch, so that might actually be a threat. I can't think of any other enemy in the current path that drops better jewels. In addition, the Mermen would really change the experience route if you chose to get the jewel and continue through the lower path instead of going back up (not sure which is faster)
arukAdo wrote:
For the prologue.... theres glitches involved, the most important one been the damage increase with holy water, theres no "exact" timing to cast your spell but tossing a bottle after will increase damage, youll have to figure timing, as they change depending your or drac position and cast time, AFAIK you can still whore a dozen of frames further than me.
Pro tip: to change drac position at start as well as where he jump, its all predetermined by candles you destroy before entering the room, im using the best outcome IIRC in any% but if you have different goals for the prologue you may adjust to something different.
The best timing I know off is in the old pcsx movie [1363] PSX Castlevania: Symphony of the Night by arukAdo & pirate_sephiroth in 19:01.63, probly a few frames faster than current any%
I'm aware of the whole damage stacking idea. It's just that all of the current TASes get much more complicated with it than just Hydro Storm > holy water, and I can't keep up. For example, any% combines Hydro Storm with the holy water with two blade dashes - this is what I was talking about in my post. I can get the HS, holy water, and blade dash to hit all at once, but when I'm supposed to turn around and do it again immediately after the first blade dash (around 1:33 in the encode of the run you linked to) is what I'm having trouble with.
With what I've gotten, Drac says his "PLAY TIME'S OVER..." line when his life bar is still 1/3 full, while all the optimal runs I've seen get him to say that while it's still 2/3 full, meaning the second phase starts about 30 frames sooner. Do you remember it taking a long time to optimize the prologue in your any%?
The dash arent completly connected I think, theres probly a few frames to wait before dashing again or the boss just dont take damage, like for any tas if you dont watch ram for boss hp closely you aint going to get far, thats while recording or replaying older movies, theres a cooldown between each hits so say you have the rain in between no dmg from dash yeah, the trick is to register them at same time, you can even jump after the first dash to regain height if your too far from his head.
And yeah its optimized to the nearest frame usually; many tricks have no place for error like for exemple screen flickers, big toss and many others.
You dont need 3 million zircon, the boomrang are 2000 each, the problem is just to figure what part of the run can be improved from having more of them, and how many boomerang in total, so that you know how much money is needed exactly, theres a lib card in one of the vases, otherwise its only 500 anyway, thats still a lot more time consuming than just say kill a merman and drop an extra food since you cant have the chicken in the wall
