THC98
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Experienced player (920)
Joined: 8/7/2012
Posts: 279
Location: Brazil
Malleoz wrote:
I redid the prologue to make it a bit more entertaining and also because I did something a bit slow. I improved it by 36 frames and I'll start working on Chapter 1-1.
This is great! It seems easy to TAS, because most of the game is in 2D playmode. But as you're using Wiimote (I guess it's not possible to use the GC controller in this game), does it desync a lot?
Youtube Channel | Twitch Channel • Finished projects: GC Sonic Adventure DX - Sonic | GC Sonic Adventure DX - Tails | GC Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story | GC Sonic Heroes - Team Sonic • Current projects: GC Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Dark Story - 1st WIP • Paused projects: GC Sonic Adventure DX - Knuckles - 1st WIP • Individual levels records: Sonic Adventure DX | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle • My Discord: Tales98#0408
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Joined: 8/30/2012
Posts: 373
It has not desynced once for me. I'm using Dolphin 4.0.1 and it seems very accurate. And yes, it's very easy to optimize (I just have to watch for silly mistakes that I might make).
Previous TASes: Frogger's Adventures: The Rescue Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door any% x 8 Paper Mario 64 Luigi's Mansion Sonic Heroes - Team Sonic Mario Kart Wii ILs
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Joined: 11/3/2013
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How did the EXP routing end up? Are you just going to ignore every non-boss enemy? I'd have thought that, especially once you get Bowser and Thudley, it should be pretty easy to kill bosses relatively quickly anyway.
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The only main points that I need to worry about are 20k points by O'Chuncks (Check!) and then I need to have 60k points by Brobot L in 4-4 (more damage = shorter boss battle). I worked on 1-1 and grinded up to 26,200 points. There's almost enough points to get to 60k without a problem, but it might come close. Anyway, I finished 1-1 and shortly I'll record and upload the improved Prologue and 1-1.
Previous TASes: Frogger's Adventures: The Rescue Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door any% x 8 Paper Mario 64 Luigi's Mansion Sonic Heroes - Team Sonic Mario Kart Wii ILs
Experienced player (984)
Joined: 8/30/2012
Posts: 373
Uh oh... I found a way to clip through blocks... I'll start off by saying I haven't tested this much, but so far I am able to clip through brick blocks and '?' blocks. I cannot clip through pipes. The way you have to get it is very strange though. You have to be jumping straight up and not at an angle; the brick ladder in the 2nd room of 1-2 is a very great example. Stand on the block, and take your Y-position and divide it by about 1.056. That is the max height that you must jump to (your height still increases for a bit after you let go of '2'). The 1-2 ladder brick is at a height of 100, so divide that and you get about 94.7 and that will set you up for the clip. (Alternatively, you can just press '2' 1 frame longer each time until you can clip up to the top of the block. That then will be the correct height). You have to duck jump up to the top corner of the block. As you begin your descent, you have to hold '2' again... Why? I have no clue, but it works. (Make sure you aren't jumping higher when pressing '2' again, otherwise delay from pressing it for 1 more frame. Continue holding in the direction of the corner of the block and you will clip through it. The only notable idea of this would be to clip through the barrier guarding the door in 1-1, but the angle must be straight up at the corner when I can only do it from the block farther to the left, so it does not work.
Previous TASes: Frogger's Adventures: The Rescue Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door any% x 8 Paper Mario 64 Luigi's Mansion Sonic Heroes - Team Sonic Mario Kart Wii ILs
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Joined: 11/3/2013
Posts: 506
Just as well you found this trick when you did. It sounds like you don't need to redo anything.
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Joined: 2/5/2011
Posts: 1417
Location: France
Okay, so we're probably restarting with Malleoz and probably Solarplex. I did a VERY VERY VERY not optimised testrun (slower than WR) that finishes chapter 1-1 and it did not desynced, and we don't even have to carry about save since there is an option to not save. more info coming soon.
Current: Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD Paused: N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair) GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven) TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 24
Does anyone know how much time it saves to skip getting Peach in 7-3? You would have to Thudley jump up from where that cloud is that you feed the red apple to. The thing is, if you don't get Peach the cloud does not spawn so you would have to Thudley jump up from the building. I've tried to get up there in real-time but haven't been able to do it yet. I got about 10 jumps and my guess is that you would need 15-20 more… Also after chapter 7-3, Peach will be in your party in 7-4.
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Unreal wrote:
Does anyone know how much time it saves to skip getting Peach in 7-3? You would have to Thudley jump up from where that cloud is that you feed the red apple to. The thing is, if you don't get Peach the cloud does not spawn so you would have to Thudley jump up from the building. I've tried to get up there in real-time but haven't been able to do it yet. I got about 10 jumps and my guess is that you would need 15-20 more… Also after chapter 7-3, Peach will be in your party in 7-4.
We'll see when we'll make a stable TAS route
Current: Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD Paused: N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair) GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven) TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 24
I mangaed to get up to the end of 7-3 without Peach via Thudley jump. A has would use the Bowser+Carrie infinite jump since it's faster but the theory of Peach being in your party after 7-3 is wrong. I even completed chapter 7 and she still was not in my party. I'm going to test tonight if she shows up for the Mimi fight in 8-2 and see if the game does not crash. If it doesn't the skip would prove useful. Peach Skip EDIT: Peach is back in your party after the O'Chunks battle in 8-1. You can use her for the Mimi battle just like normal.
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Location: France
Unreal wrote:
I mangaed to get up to the end of 7-3 without Peach via Thudley jump. A has would use the Bowser+Carrie infinite jump since it's faster but the theory of Peach being in your party after 7-3 is wrong. I even completed chapter 7 and she still was not in my party. I'm going to test tonight if she shows up for the Mimi fight in 8-2 and see if the game does not crash. If it doesn't the skip would prove useful. Peach Skip EDIT: Peach is back in your party after the O'Chunks battle in 8-1. You can use her for the Mimi battle just like normal.
Yes! Thanks, we'll use that! We just need help to elaborate a TAS route that is OK
Current: Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD Paused: N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair) GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven) TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 24
Here is another trick that will save some time in 8-3 during the Dimentio chase. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGIb-d-rHsw If you guys plan on picking up some mighty tonics for double damage, the Pigarithms in 8-1 drop mighty tonics that could be used for some of the final fights. Maybe you could manipulate all 3 Pigs to drop a tonic if that is possible.
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Posts: 1417
Location: France
Unreal wrote:
Here is another trick that will save some time in 8-3 during the Dimentio chase. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGIb-d-rHsw If you guys plan on picking up some mighty tonics for double damage, the Pigarithms in 8-1 drop mighty tonics that could be used for some of the final fights. Maybe you could manipulate all 3 Pigs to drop a tonic if that is possible.
Thanks, but finally I dunno if we'll do that, looks like no one in the group wants to make a TAS route...
Current: Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD Paused: N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair) GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven) TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
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Joined: 8/30/2012
Posts: 373
I told you I don't have a lot of time right now to work on one...
Previous TASes: Frogger's Adventures: The Rescue Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door any% x 8 Paper Mario 64 Luigi's Mansion Sonic Heroes - Team Sonic Mario Kart Wii ILs
Experienced player (588)
Joined: 2/5/2011
Posts: 1417
Location: France
Malleoz wrote:
I told you I don't have a lot of time right now to work on one...
Did I mentioned you XD ?
Current: Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD Paused: N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair) GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven) TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Experienced player (984)
Joined: 8/30/2012
Posts: 373
Just a heads up, I will begin testing in this game in the next few days and eventually start TASing it once I and some friends construct a solid route. I'll start by showcasing a bunch of TAS-only strats and work on a Google site to organize all our findings.
Previous TASes: Frogger's Adventures: The Rescue Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door any% x 8 Paper Mario 64 Luigi's Mansion Sonic Heroes - Team Sonic Mario Kart Wii ILs
Post subject: I made some research and found very usefull stuff
aldelaro5
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Joined: 1/8/2014
Posts: 29
Location: Canada, Quebec
Hi! So, I decided 2 weeks ago to start glitch hunting SPM as to my surprise....not much was done and a lot remains. It feels like 2 years ago when I started on TTYD so....I have a feel of deja vu :) Anyway, I'm currently doing some general research and documentation. I made a pack of 134 saves (.bin wii saves) that you can get on the RTA wiki in the saves section. You could use these if you somehow want to test the game at some points, but I need these for my testing. Next, I found a lot of offsets for usefull values such as the coordinates or general stats like HP. I have both lists for ntsc-u and ntsc-j, but I need to make some vetter formatted documents. Eventually, the data would be on Malleoz site. The values you should be very interested are the coordinates, the speed and the RNG. For now, I'm just going to give them, but all offsets would be on the docs, it's jsut going to take me a little while and pasting every offsets here....is going to be a bit overkill. for ntsc-u: Coordinate X -> 4CEEB4 Coordinate Y -> 4CEEB8 Coordinate Z -> 4CEEBC RNG -> 56CB1C I won't put the speed now, because I'm really unsure of its reliability, but I guess I will find the eight one for both version soon and put them in the documentation. For ntsc-j: Coordinate X -> 4A27B4 Coordinate Y -> 4A27B8 Coordinate Z -> 4A27BC RNG -> 54243C Now, what I can tell about the speed is that it pretty much works the same way as TTYD. There's one value that is the speed for both the X and Z axis and this value would worth 3 when you hold a direction. The Y speed is a different value on its own. Now, this is when it becomes interesting: I found a lot about RNG. First, interstingly, the ntsc-u RNG has a different function than ntsc-j. Though, they both have the same template as TTYD, it's just the numbers that changes a bit. Here's the ntsc-u formula for rerolling the RNG: RNG(x+1) = ( ( 0xA230FAA1 * RNG(x) ) + 0x05A3BAE8)%0x100000000 and here's the ntsc-j one: RNG(x+1) = ( ( 0xC1685309 * RNG(x) ) + 0xE580BD92)%0x100000000 It's weird that they are different, but they both seem to behave the seem way. Which leads me to explain when it rerolls. Basically, the RNG is a 4 bytes (big endian of course) and it will get advanced with the operation I wrote everytime somethings needs to have random outcome generated. By default, it jsut doesn't change. However, this seems to be an exception when you enter new areas....I don't know why, but using doors causes some rerolls. What this implies is if you have any animations going on or some random voices, the rng will advance. However, if you just walk and jump as Mario, it would stay frozen. Interstingly, each time you see UI text on the screen, it would constantly advance each frames. My theory is that it would need to load the shake effect of the text cause random generation. Some map like the Underwhere which has random background animation will cause rerolls. This is true for other places like 3-2 and flipside. Finally,, some general animtion will reroll it such has: Seeing a damage star (so, taking OR receiving damage) flipping coins disappearing when you get them every time you heal, you will see some stars popping out, these cause rerolls. Switching Pxl causes 2 rerolls with their animation. Breaking a brick block Boomer explosion Some characters animation such has Bowser's fire Doing a stylish Some other random events like having a Floro Sapiens going out of a pipe in 5-4 (their colors are random) They seem to depend ont he animation. For example, Bowser fires is around 3-4 frames before rerolls (inconsistent) while having a long last shake is almost constant rerolls. And when I say seeing UI text, I mean when you have dialogues, the file selection screen, the auick and pause menu and any screen when you see text written in the game font. This means that if you stand still , this will cause the HUD that tells you how to pause or check the controls at the bottom. This will make the RNG reroll per frames which might serve if you want to reroll it. As for enemies drops, killing one will reroll it so I guess it's not predetermined and can be manipulated. Also, I made a list of all the items ID you could put in the arrays to hack items....always usefull for testing triggers. I just started, a lot needs to be done, but from what I got, I think this game has way more potential than TTYD. it just doesn't feel as solid as it is. Hope you look forward to more info :) EDIT: The documentations are done: The offsets: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18JRw8_XHfbAUHCI4Ze4wlD0a0aZVazhd_o0q7ybumKg/edit?usp=sharing The ID: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r4N9HSJjyR4AFehS34rsG4fX_YzSThagv7oBmwa5k6c/edit?usp=sharing And the details about RNG: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11qd1ClGf3Fw3GyaOFFk6wBWZXy5hKeYEmznjoUTKe9c/edit?usp=sharing You should have most needed here :)
Even if it's a sequel, lots of people have to give their all to make a game, but some people think the sequel process happens naturally." - Masahiro Sakurai
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Hey aldelaro, nice to see another post from you. I went ahead and compiled your information, and the other useful information in this thread into a Game Resources page for this game. Feel free to edit it if you see anything that needs fixing.
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http://www.mariowiki.com/List_of_Super_Paper_Mario_glitches there are a lot of OoB glitches,i never knew about them,i have to go back to this game as soon as possible,hopefully something can be applied for more skips
TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Post subject: little update on my testing (I'm back!)
aldelaro5
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Joined: 1/8/2014
Posts: 29
Location: Canada, Quebec
So, just to be short, my laptop died so I had to suspend my testing for a bit, but I bought hardware and build a new desktop computer. The cpu (i5 4690) is just a beast for emulation and multitasking meaning I can finally start to be more productive :) As I write this message, nothing has been done since I made the google docs, I was supposed to check the pillars, but that's when it died.... Anyway, what is important is I'm back on testing.
CoolKirby wrote:
Hey aldelaro, nice to see another post from you. I went ahead and compiled your information, and the other useful information in this thread into a Game Resources page for this game. Feel free to edit it if you see anything that needs fixing.
I chnaged the 3d gauge offset because it was wrong. It should have been 0x004D043E. Btw, I might stream from time to time because now, I don;t have to fear of lag....I can definetely run both super paper mario and TTYD at 60 fps with lle :) Hope I will find stuff.
Even if it's a sequel, lots of people have to give their all to make a game, but some people think the sequel process happens naturally." - Masahiro Sakurai
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Joined: 2/5/2011
Posts: 1417
Location: France
I'd be happy to do some parts of TAS too :)
Current: Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD Paused: N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair) GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven) TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Post subject: New docs about abilities and how the sequence works
aldelaro5
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Joined: 1/8/2014
Posts: 29
Location: Canada, Quebec
So, I tested yesterday and today 2 things, how the sequence is made and how the game treats input as I got into something very weird. First, I knew that it has been "said" that you can't skip the pillar, however, the only info I had was so fuzzy that I had to check. That is to show the more the documents, the better. Anyway, using the usefull peach warp in her first segment, I could check what happens to the pillar, they are basically all triggered and the doors are there, but I tested every pillar and they all would not allow you to activate them early EXCEPT the second one. That one, if you activate it before ending the ch1, it will play the cs of the pure hear (that you didn't get....computer logic :) ) and play the cs when the orange door appears. However, it spawns you back to where you were before (near when you would flip int he background) and not play the last cs right next to the pillar. The music also get screwed by simply not being there. In the end, the pillar actually never completed its activation because if you come back, you don't see the heart in the pillar and you can't activate it. The door actually never truly appeared so you would have softlocked. idk why this funky outcome happens,but it really seem that it just didn't completed the activation. As for other stuff in the sequence....it's more solid than TTYD. Not only you cannot skip any ch access, but unlike TTYD, there's only one way to revert the sequence backward asnd it's pretty much useless. See, when you seqyuence break, you go forward, but by doing this, just like TTYD, it would make other triggers like the Pixls chest already activated. What this means is if you would skip a Pixl, you would not be able to get it back. In TTYD, there was some triggers that doesn't get activated by this and they prety much required you to trigger them by yourself, but doing so after a sequence break would revert the whole sequence to that trigger thus, allowing you to get another chance for the the triggers after. This was good in TTYD, but spm only has one: the cat door of 3-4. For whatever reasons, almost nothing is activated in that ch except the locked door are unlocked.....not the cat one. The key chest are still closed so, you could pick them, open that cat door and it would revert the whole sequence to the Francis fight. In theory, this could be very usefull, but this means that to make use of this, you would skip 3-4 which is almost impossible because you need to end it to progress. With the only possibility dead, it's tighter than TTYD because we can only sequence break forward and we cannot undo any sequence break so it will be hard to do it without skipping too important stuff. However, I still maintain that the game has a lot of flaws elsewhere that can change a lot. Now, the input....I wanted to test the life shroom gltich, but I got very inconsistent with the jump even with frame advance. I actually got that several actions like the Pixl and jumping requires you to hold down the input during a certain amount of frames. This doesn't apply to any characters actions which are simply a one frame input EXCEPT any jumps which requires at least 3 frames of holding to be processed after. I think I recall that Malleoz did came to that conclusion, but I couldn't remember exactly. Anyway, the amount of frames are explained in detail in this google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19HBFf3SuxsAjPzXSZFlPUSfwB_lpRsEWfsTiPQAya4c/edit?usp=sharing Amd I have to say, this is the weirdest and most confusing input management I've ever seen. At least I know how to count frames for testing the input queue :) So, that's all I had. The next part would be to test known glitch and try to draw some conclusions out of them.
Even if it's a sequel, lots of people have to give their all to make a game, but some people think the sequel process happens naturally." - Masahiro Sakurai
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Joined: 3/13/2013
Posts: 31
Location: Zebes
Hi. Maybe it's something already known, but as I' am not sure i want to share this with you. I remember that it happened once that I went through the floor in this game. It was in the level 3-3, when you enter a pipe in the tree (the room with the horizontal moving platform). Because my english is rather bad, I suggest you to take a look to this veeeeery beautiful picture that explain better than I could do what happened to Mario : http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/42/1444759990-img-20151013-200749.jpg This was some years ago, so I am not 100%, but if I remind correctly, I did a crouch jump to go to the little hole just before the platform (which was moving from right to left) reached it. But instead of walking on the floor, Mario just went through, so I did just land on the switch. Once again, this happened some years ago, so I am not able to give you more details. But I am sure that it happened. Hope this could be useful ;)
La Hollande, c'est un Pays-Bas comme les autres...
Fortranm
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Link to video http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/53573595 A 3:49:46.81 test-run is posted on Nicovideo today.
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player keeps crashing,can't watch the video,anybody else got this problem?
TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.