Posted: 1/29/2015 6:42 PM
Post subject: Question about a PC TAS
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StingerPA
Joined: 10/14/2014
Posts: 5
So, I've got an interesting case here. Escape Goat 2 is a puzzle platformer that was released last year by an indie developer, and recently, a runner of the game has decompiled the game, and started adding in TAS tools to the base game. These include frame advance, hitbox viewer, replaying a movie file containing inputs for every level in the game, and a couple other neat things. My question for TASVideos is whether this would be submittable to the site. This is technically a modified version of the game, although no gameplay elements are being touched, and the developers have actually signed off on this as being completely fine. I don't know how hourglass works with the game as I cannot run hourglass on this computer (or any other PC I own), so this is the only avenue for a real TAS of this game to be completed at this point.
Posted: 1/29/2015 7:09 PM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
I can't speak in any official capacity, but in my opinion such a movie would be fine to submit. There'd be some technical issues -- the file format of the submission wouldn't be recognized by the website code, and generating encodes might be difficult -- but as long as the game syncs for other players and the quality of the run is high, I don't see why the game couldn't be accepted. It does help that the developer of the game has signed off on these modifications, though. That's important to help make it clear that the run is done on an official version of the game.
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Posted: 1/29/2015 7:10 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2461)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
Any developer that does this kind of thing should be praised and all runs like that should be accepted to the site. I hope this becomes a trend.
Posted: 1/29/2015 11:30 PM
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Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4018
There's no precedent for a TAS on tasvideos being accepted that uses TAS tools built into the game, rather than provided by a separate emulator (or Hourglass). For example, the answer to 'Can a Doom TAS using the in-game demo replay feature be submitted here' has always been 'no'.
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Posted: 1/29/2015 11:37 PM
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ais523
Editor, Player (44)
Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 1022
I implemented stable rerecording in a game I was working on in order to make debugging easier, and to make it possible to recover a game if something went wrong. I don't have a full-on suite of TAS tools for it yet though.
Posted: 1/30/2015 12:17 AM
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creaothceann
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Editor
Joined: 4/7/2005
Posts: 1874
Location: Germany
Patashu wrote:
There's no precedent for a TAS on tasvideos being accepted that uses TAS tools built into the game, rather than provided by a separate emulator (or Hourglass). For example, the answer to 'Can a Doom TAS using the in-game demo replay feature be submitted here' has always been 'no'.
But why? Conceptually I don't see a problem, only potential technical ones (e.g. bugs in the game or the mods, settling on a common stable version, etc).
Posted: 1/30/2015 3:26 PM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1237)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11279
Location: RU
NES TAS of 2011
Patashu wrote:
There's no precedent for a TAS on tasvideos being accepted that uses TAS tools built into the game, rather than provided by a separate emulator (or Hourglass). For example, the answer to 'Can a Doom TAS using the in-game demo replay feature be submitted here' has always been 'no'.
ORLY? http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#TechnicallySubmittableMovieFormats http://tasvideos.org/Natt/Doom.html As for the general principle, I'd be against the idea of allowing submitting potentially unlimited amount of custom movie formats. Exceptions could be made, but only for exceptional cases :D
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 1/30/2015 3:59 PM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Patashu wrote:
There's no precedent
Because TASVideos has a long history of only ever doing what we've done in the past. :) As feos obliquely notes, the technical process of submitting a new movie format is a bit tricky, but from what I understand, the mods can accept any file they like as a new submission, right? So, y'know, if you can get the mods on-board with your unique format, then there shouldn't be a problem.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 1/30/2015 4:03 PM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1237)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11279
Location: RU
NES TAS of 2011
I mean, before a judge accepts a new movie file format, it needs an approval on admin level. http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=394349#394349
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 2/2/2015 3:34 PM
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Personman
Other
Joined: 4/20/2008
Posts: 465
If we are entering an era in which developers are adding or sanctioning the addition of TAS tools to their games, we need to react to that and destroy any and all barriers to submissions created with such tools. This is an amazing thing that we really, really want to encourage and support.
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Posted: 2/3/2015 8:31 AM
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Margen67
He/Him
Joined: 5/8/2011
Posts: 17
Personman wrote:
If we are entering an era in which developers are adding or sanctioning the addition of TAS tools to their games, we need to react to that and destroy any and all barriers to submissions created with such tools. This is an amazing thing that we really, really want to encourage and support.
Why would you need external tas tools? Hourglass is great./sarcasm
Posted: 2/3/2015 4:01 PM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Hourglass is an amazing tool, no sarcasm whatsoever. Don't let its (significant) limitations overshadow the things it lets you do.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 2/4/2015 2:46 AM
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jlun2
Skilled player (1708)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4952
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
GBA TASer of 2010
Personman wrote:
If we are entering an era in which developers are adding or sanctioning the addition of TAS tools to their games, we need to react to that and destroy any and all barriers to submissions created with such tools. This is an amazing thing that we really, really want to encourage and support.
While that's great, imo it would be even better to have a general tool that TASes multiple games rather than specific tools to TAS a single game.
LLCoolDave wrote:
This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.