Woah! You then use read-only savestates to get to the edited frame quickly in Gens I guess?
If you have the movie open in read-only mode in Gens, you can alt-tab to TASEditor to edit the movie, edit, save, alt-tab back to Gens and load a savestate before the edited frame. Gens will reload the movie automagically, and play it with the changes you made. It even works with Gens on Wine and TASEditor in a VM.
For me is handy to work with 3 files. 2 main working files and 1 master file to keep best result at the moment.
I already trained to press "Tools -> Movie -> Movie history ->" by mouse less than quarter of seconds.
Thanks for tip anyway.
Btw in december found solution for the Grand Deflation Problem with using 3 buttons controller.
Ouzo wrote:
One bad thing about doing a three player run is the switching. In order to do so, you need to press A+B+C and that can cause some undesired actions, so I had to choose carefully when to switch characters (ex. cannot switch characters while ballooned up or will deflate).
Fortunately is possible to cancel deflation if call the "Give up menu" just before switching vikings.
So don't worry, one of the biggest skip in game (dependent on deflation) will take place, despite of control scheme limitations :)
@feos
Вообще-то про сорока-секундного карася я писал еще в декабре в общих вопросах, так что это не новость. Просто Джуниору я тогда забыл написать о благополучном исходе сего животрепещущего вопроса.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Archanfel wrote:
I already trained to press "Tools -> Movie -> Movie history ->" by mouse less than quarter of seconds.
Haha, this sounds familiar! I remember showing some of my Gens stuff to a friend. Me navigating the menus like an autistic lightning bolt seemed to impress him more than anything else I showed him.
Fortunately is possible to cancel deflation if call the "Give up menu" just before switching vikings.
So don't worry, one of the biggest skip in game (dependent on deflation) will take place, despite of control scheme limitations :)
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
The third puzzle of 26th level - CBTL solved in one platform's cycle:
{Actually first two puzzles in this level also was cracked, but not such elegant teamwork as the third one.}
Note:If Baleog try to do traditional way jump on trampoline he will not have enough time to do two shots and doomed to wait second platform cycle as it had happened in published tas.
I strongly dislike waiting, so i asked Olaf to carry Baleog on his shield directly to the platform. Eric's role is protect Baleog during this operation. It was beautiful spot for using true power of 3 players teamwork.
P.S. Next time i will show how Baleog the Fierce will use Megaman-like zipping. {Timesaver effect is pretty small (~57 frames), but it is still very interesting trick.}
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Amazing! I love it!
EDIT: I advise to use a lossless codec for gifs (lagarith is best).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
Beautiful sequence, Archanfel! Look forward to the completed run!
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
This game incredibly full of different tricks. Usually each level have 2-3 interesting timesaving tricks on average. Level 27 H0PP one of the leanest, where i found only one small trick...*sad sigh*. Nevertheless zipping used only once in game, so it more or less remarkable to show it.
Behold how Baleog the Fierce is crossing the electricity pit:
---
Patashu wrote:
Classic zipping, no jumping required!
In Soviet Russia wall jumps on you :)
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
"Lord of Light! Come to us in our darkness. We offer you these vikings. Take them and cast your light upon us. For the night is dark and full of terrors."
[At the end of level 28 - SMRT triggering EXIT without deactivating second flame]
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Mike and I are becoming increasingly excited at your progress. This is beautiful; I can't wait to pick apart your video and find things to ask about, so we can bring as many of these tricks as possible into the RTA world.
It's a bit scary, though - a lot of these tricks look extremely dangerous, and it was already brutally difficult to avoid losing minutes to deaths; in a year of running the game I had only a single deathless run. I have a feeling a deathless run of this game with all the strats we can muster is going to be a dream within a dream.
I can't wait to pick apart your video and find things to ask about, so we can bring as many of these tricks as possible into the RTA world.
Hi Johann,
On the the great Yggdrasil tree there are many fruits. During route planning i filled many baskets. However very little of these forbidden fruits can be eaten into the RTA world, most of them for TAS only.
For example here a cavern of treasures, heavily broken level - Level 09 CVRN, where 1575 frames was saved (26.25 seconds {really huge piece of time}).
Link to video
Improvements explanations:
1)About ~11 seconds by reaching previous bubble cycle {these bubbles have universal timer}:
1.1)At very beginning Eric did strange jump to manipulate caveman and fireball at the same time so Baleog and Olaf can pass them absolutely without waiting. (In published TAS about 2 second of waiting in this place).
1.2)Skipped very long fight with cavemans.
Priority of damage in this game: Eric > Baleog > Olaf; also there is minimum time between damage so if all three vikings go forward 2/3 of them able pass thru caveman. Fortunately remaining 1/3 of vikings can jump.
2)About ~12 seconds by skipping blue key:
As well as some force fields, some closed doors also can be traversed offscreen.
There and Back Again.
3)About ~3 seconds by skipping getting this item {i not know how it called in english}.
Behavior of caveman says him to roll to boundary of screen/or wall and back. By switching camera in right moment to Eric, i caught caveman at the end of level in a cruel trap between boundary of screen and wall {picture}. So Baleog and Olaf can jump over him from ladder.
---
Q:How many of these 26 seconds for this single level can be useful for RTA?
A:My guess - 0/26. Without tools these fruits can become poison. Theoretically double wall clip trick can be useful for RTA, but practically unlikely someone will able to train execute it consistently.
---
Patashu wrote:
Archanfel, when the TAS is done, have you considered making commentary for it (subtitles or verbal)? Just to make sure no one can watch this TAS and miss any of its tricks :D
I absolutely sure even the most attentive observers will miss some tricks. However commentary is luxury. I not plan to make them. Standard description would be enough.
Hopefully everyone will be able to enjoy my tas even without extra commentaries.
Enough talking, i need dig firm breed under last factory level V8TR. Pretty difficult level, where Olaf being troublemaker once again.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Archanfel, when the TAS is done, have you considered making commentary for it (subtitles or verbal)? Just to make sure no one can watch this TAS and miss any of its tricks :D
Theoretically double wall clip trick can be useful for RTA, but practically unlikely someone will able to train execute it consistently.
See, there you are. There's a trick I think can possibly be performed by a human. And before you say "unlikely," be advised we said "unlikely" many times ourselves and were wrong. There are setups for tricks like this. Though I doubt we can save all 12 seconds on that trick, more likely 4-6 seconds because setups cost time. It's possible we will be unable to do the trick, or at least to make it save time, but all we can do is try! :)
There's a trick I think can possibly be performed by a human. And before you say "unlikely," be advised we said "unlikely" many times ourselves and were wrong. There are setups for tricks like this. Though I doubt we can save all 12 seconds on that trick, more likely 4-6 seconds because setups cost time. It's possible we will be unable to do the trick, or at least to make it save time, but all we can do is try! :)
I like your positive mood! I will be only glad if it would be possible carry some of new tricks to improve RTA records. However mechanic of game goes far beyond the human skills. So it would be naive to expect much benefit for human speedrunning.
---
Update from 25 February 2015: Fourth world The great factory is finished.
As a good tradition, improvements are even more significant comparing with my preliminary calculations :))
In total i already 13526 frames ahead of published movie (3 minutes and 45.43 seconds).Improvements table & [url=
http://s1.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2015/02/c417a2ac3368327e90fa02fef9e20741.gif]Graphical representation[/url]
Now for vikings finally is time to travel into homeland of madness Wonderland Wacky World.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
A lot of levels have significant improvements. For example in Wacky World according to a plan two levels will have huge improvement ~1000 frames (CMB0 & TRPD), and also two levels outstanding improvements ~2000 frames (NFL8{done} & WRLR).
But of course not all levels are so heavily broken. For many levels i absolutely agree with Ouzo about chosen routes. These levels already well-optimised and very difficult to improve yet further.
However usually even them possible overclocked a little bit. I want to show one of such unleavened levels, and how to improve unimproveable.
Level 31 WKYY, where 200 frames was saved (3.33 seconds).
Link to video
-Applied the Air-walk glitch for Baleog to walk above hole, so Erik not wait and can go get blue key earlier (33)
-Small etude with camera: i used Olaf on ladder as camera-holder. This way is possible to optimise vertical platform and load it in perfect phase for Eric (99)
-Manipulate Alien Wally (15)
-Reduce transmission of items {Gave Baleog blue key instead of red} (8)
-With Blue key Baleog can start falling ahead of Erik (24)
-Btw this level symbolize falling down the rabbit hole (0)
-Baleog not used tramplin, he just ride on Olaf's shield (6)
-Manipulate horizontal platform in perfect phase for Baleog to get the maximal moment of inertia (15)
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Here heart of level 32 - CMB0:
In total for this level 1364 frames (22.73 seconds) was saved.
-Some changes (difficult for explanation) until the moment of dropping bomb (233) {Not shown in gif}
-Jumping into half-destroyed hole (before all 4 blocks destroyed) (51) {Shown in gif}
-Skipping lift and clip door to grab red key significantly earlier (1080) {Shown in gif}
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Oh god, this TAS is going to be too intense for words :O
Again, I hope to see some commentary to go with this run ,l otherwise you can blink and miss what's going on, hah XD
Again, I hope to see some commentary to go with this run ,l otherwise you can blink and miss what's going on, hah XD
I prefer to do something very good, or not do it at all. Unfortunately my english not enough good to write proper commentaries as good as they should be written.
So try to not blink.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
One of the most complicated levels for whole game - Level 35 - FNTM:
Link to video
599 frames (9.99 seconds) was saved in this evil level.
It took more than a week of intensive digging, my paws are buzzing with fatigue!
Edit: I noticed possible improvement in this difficult level. {Improvement in place with two platforms.} My paws are crying for mercy but i need re-dig it once again...
Edit2: Ok improvement has been applied. New solution is 30 frames (0.5 seconds) faster than "slow" variant of solution in video above.
In total compared to published tas 629 frames (10.48 seconds) was saved in this very evil level.hegyak wrote:
Did they run THROUGH the spikes?!
Spikes is a lie.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Archanfel: it's really nothing bad to post a separate reply, and it's easier to find.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Archanfel: it's really nothing bad to post a separate reply, and it's easier to find.
I just trying to optimise... my own posts.
---
Btw i accidentally found that some links for gifs are already dead, so to replace these missed gifs here two levels.
Level 26 - CBLT, where 539 frames (8.98 seconds) was saved:
Link to video
First puzzle:
-Reach previous cycle of first platform.
=Abusing item-duplication glitch to get two bombs.
=On back way Erick wait at ladder at specific position so Olaf and Balrog can pass thru force field even before bomb is exploded.
Second puzzle:
-Not use transmission of items {It stop game for 6 frames! Such huge time wasting}.
-Use Eric himself to drop second bomb instead of Olaf. Tricky usage trampoline;
Third puzzle:
-Solve this puzzle in one platform's cycle instead of two cycles.
---
And Level 32 - CMB0, where 1364 frames (22.73 seconds) was saved:
Link to video
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Note:If Baleog try to do traditional way jump on trampoline he will not have enough time to do two shots and doomed to wait second platform cycle as it had happened in published tas.
I strongly dislike waiting, so i asked Olaf to carry Baleog on his shield directly to the platform. Eric's role is protect Baleog during this operation. It was beautiful spot for using true power of 3 players teamwork.
P.S. Next time i will show how Baleog the Fierce will use Megaman-like zipping. {Timesaver effect is pretty small (~57 frames), but it is still very interesting trick.}
---
"Lord of Light! Come to us in our darkness. We offer you these vikings. Take them and cast your light upon us. For the night is dark and full of terrors."
[At the end of level 28 - SMRT triggering EXIT without deactivating second flame]
1.2)Skipped very long fight with cavemans.
Priority of damage in this game: Eric > Baleog > Olaf; also there is minimum time between damage so if all three vikings go forward 2/3 of them able pass thru caveman. Fortunately remaining 1/3 of vikings can jump.
2)About ~12 seconds by skipping blue key:
As well as some force fields, some closed doors also can be traversed offscreen.
There and Back Again.
3)About ~3 seconds by skipping getting this item 
{i not know how it called in english}.
Behavior of caveman says him to roll to boundary of screen/or wall and back. By switching camera in right moment to Eric, i caught caveman at the end of level in a cruel trap between boundary of screen and wall {picture}. So Baleog and Olaf can jump over him from ladder.
---
Q:How many of these 26 seconds for this single level can be useful for RTA?
A:My guess - 0/26. Without tools these fruits can become poison. Theoretically double wall clip trick can be useful for RTA, but practically unlikely someone will able to train execute it consistently.
---
In total for this level 1364 frames (22.73 seconds) was saved.
-Some changes (difficult for explanation) until the moment of dropping bomb (233) {Not shown in gif}
-Jumping into half-destroyed hole (before all 4 blocks destroyed) (51) {Shown in gif}
-Skipping lift and clip door to grab red key significantly earlier (1080) {Shown in gif}
