This topic is for the purpose of discussing #4668: Spikestuff's NES Atlantis no Nazo in 02:20.35

I was not entertained. Voting No.

I don't know what's going on anymore... voting meh.

Does exposure (author of submission 4667) deserve co-author status on this movie? It seems a little cruel to have someone submit a movie, then go "Hey, nice submission, I see what you did there but I can do it better, no publication for you."

Does exposure (author of submission 4667) deserve co-author status on this movie? It seems a little cruel to have someone submit a movie, then go "Hey, nice submission, I see what you did there but I can do it better, no publication for you."

It's Spikestuff, get used to it.

While I know nothing about the game or the run's technical merits or the aspects it improves on in regards to previous submissions, I can rest assured the movie file ends on the very exact frame the last input is delivered. If that's not an instant yes vote right there, I don't know what is.

...It seems a little cruel to have someone submit a movie, then go "Hey, nice submission, I see what you did there but I can do it better, no publication for you."

I agree. What kind of reputation does that give TASVideos if a more experienced user (who's also a publisher) takes a rookie user's game submission, improves on it, and then submits it exclusively as his own--not even 24 hours after it's been submitted to the Workbench? If that happened to me, not only would I not come back here again, I would make sure that others would know about it, as well.

Yea, like I haven't done that before >.> [2764] Genesis Bonanza Bros. "2 players" by SprintGod & Spikestuff in 08:53.79

There's a big difference between obsoleting a 10 year-old published TAS and basically undercutting someone's submission while it's still on the Workbench.

Does exposure (author of submission 4667) deserve co-author status on this movie? It seems a little cruel to have someone submit a movie, then go "Hey, nice submission, I see what you did there but I can do it better, no publication for you."

Fresh input, so nope.

Presence or absence of other users' input is not the only thing to consider for co-authors. Not that I'm really aware of the differences between these runs and the previous publication, but I get the distinct impression that you would not have known how to make this improvement without exposure's submission. Put frankly, this strikes me as a rather rude submission. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, but as it stands I'd have to vote for it not being published (in any category), simply on the grounds that we should be polite to potential new TASers instead of (effectively) stealing their work.

Can we take a moment to appreciate the beautiful irony in someone nicknamed "exposure" submitting a run and having it pushed into obscurity like this? EDIT: But seriously, give Exposure top billing if you're going to pull shit like this.

User movie #22249387297679426

Thank you, for the contribution in fixing this. When the file gets replaced using your 2 frame fix your name shall be added.

User movie #22249387297679426

-_-

Huh. A frame war. Can someone please explain what this game is about though?

I'm also not a fan of the way this was done. You certainly have the right to make this movie the way you did, but you should be more thankful for the work that preceded you. It's one thing if you have a really unoptimized run that you reinvent (see the Mendel Palace run by DarkKobold, for instance), but here you took somebody's pretty optimized run, with new findings, and you don't really give them any respect for their work when all you do is some small optimizations. After all, you didn't know much of anything about the game before their run showed up! (If you want an example of how this kind of update was done with more class, see the Little Nemo run done by Randil, before Alyosha's update. See how he credits the preceding submissions that weren't as optimal...) As for the run itself, I like the game. I don't know it well enough to know the convoluted paths the game takes, but the action is fairly good. Seeing yourself die on bombs and then warp to new stages is cool too.

I don't agree with this co-author bitching. And also Spikestuffs obviously lying (1064 rerecords for 10 hours)

And also Spikestuffs obviously lying (1064 rerecords for 10 hours)

Oh. Work/Studying - 5 hours TASing - 3 hours Oh, you're right. That's 8. Shit.

User movie #22249387297679426

Why didn't you submit this under your own name without giving credit to anyone else? Arbitrarily improving a run and just posting it in the thread isn't the way we do things around here anymore, apparently!

User movie #22249387297679426

Why didn't you submit this under your own name without giving credit to anyone else? Arbitrarily improving a run and just posting it in the thread isn't the way we do things around here anymore, apparently!

I don't agree with this co-author bitching.

Oh, and by the way people. It's using a trick in the older TAS too. I'm surprised no "bitching" has occurred for using a different trick. Only just a bomb door trick.

If any of us had any idea what the actual improvement in this movie was, maybe we'd be able to have an informed debate. Just sayin'.

If any of us had any idea what the actual improvement in this movie was, maybe we'd be able to have an informed debate. Just sayin'.

[1837] NES Atlantis no Nazo by Sonikkustar in 02:23.11 Has the trick. It's basically using Player 2 to load up the next level faster.

If any of us had any idea what the actual improvement in this movie was, maybe we'd be able to have an informed debate. Just sayin'.

Yeah. Someone should encode exposure’s run. I also agree input has very little to do with authorship. You can contribute input and not be considered an author, like you can be considered an author without contributing any input at all in my opinion. An author is a person who contributed significantly to the run, pressing buttons isn’t the only way to contribute. Having said that I’ll refrain from arguing whether exposure should be listed as co-author or not until after I’ve understood what the differences between the runs are. Edit: On the run itself, why the hell do you die at the end after the game’s beaten? lol. Voting meh, it’s not that bad.

voting No because I discovered the P2 pause trick and it's only mentioned in sonikkustar's subtitles and nowhere else! and because of that I have nothing interesting to talk about to women at bars. shameless self-promotion anyway I have no strong opinion on exposure getting co author credit but I do agree with derakon that the way spikestuff went about this doesn't sit fully well with me.

Oh so you're all saying do what DKC should have done even though the author of it was never involved. Classic. @Nitro. Since I'm derp with FCEUX sub, I'll provide subs to the video and keep the sub train going. The crediting the tricks was something I was going to add but forgot. I'll add it in.

As I have the detailed knowledge about the game and TAS, I'll try to organize information about this situation. Improvements included in [1837] NES Atlantis no Nazo by Sonikkustar in 02:23.11 1. 2P pause trick (found by NitroGenesis) By pause trick, transition time in each zone become shorter, and 2P pause trick enable to omit a blank frame by using 2P start button. However, this trick may have something to do with emulation issues, because Famicom 2P controller has no start button. (And this game is released in Japan only) So, whether this trick is allowed should be discussed IMO. 2. Better Acceleration in 99th zone. (found by Me) 3. Better Bomb Throwing in 99th zone. (found by Sonikkustar) This improvement probably lost meanings due to New pause trick found by exposure. Improvements included in this submission New Pause trick (found by exposure) This trick enables the closed secret door to be open at the same time Secret door appears, and is used in 93th and 99th zones. In this game, there are two types of the secret doors. 1.Opened secret doors (11th zone and 52th zone in the TAS) You can't see the door itself, but you warp to Next Zone when you move to the door's position. (So, suicide bombing is noting to do with warping. In 11th zone, there's no way to move you to the door's position except for suicide bombing. In 52th zone, suicide bombing is just faster. ) 2.Closed secret doors (93th and 99th zones int the TAS) You can make the Closed door appear by throwing bomb to the door's position. New Pause trick omitted this process. Exposure and Spikestuff didn't include the improvements in the Sonikkustar's submission, so MESHUGGAH did that.