Enemies movement/position has been manipulated. RNG is manipulated to kill each pig with 2 shots. Damage received by imps also has been manipulated.
E3M2 - Slough of Despair
New route. Green Armour will be useful in E3M7.
E3M3 - Pandemonium
Neat movement in narrow corridors. Via firing a handgun monsters position has been manipulated.*
E3M4 - House of Pain
Same here*. Yellow key was picked up through the wall.
E3M5 - Unholy Cathedral
With the right movement/position of the player teleportation can be skipped. Same applies to the blue key grab, so there is no need of lowering the pedestal.
E3M6 - Mt. Erebus
RNG is manipulated to deal maximum damage and kill more enemies.
E3M7 - Gate to Limbo
Lost soul's position is manipulated to be able to rocket jump strait to the exit. Clumsydoomer helped with this RJ, but refused to be a co-author.
E3M8 - Dis
RNG is manipulated to kill the Boss with one charge.
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Truncated wrote:
You can modify the movie to add an extra use command to start the ending in PrBoom, I think. Let me know if you want me to do it.
Please do :)
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I judged that it would be allowed:
"I was asked to comment on Strafe50 while turning. Aqfaq's reasoning is sound, it can be compared to left+right. It is not possible to press normally, but it can be accomplished with a modified controller in both cases. The game accepts Strafe50 and turning as valid input when it receives it. This is not true for all input which can be sent, for example sending quicker running input than normally possible makes Doom go "Indigo: is turbo!" to warn viewers/other players that the player Indigo is cheating."
In principle a TAS is legit if you could (at least theoretically) build a device which does nothing more than to connect into the controller port of the console, and supply input to it, and the TAS is thus replicable in the original unmodified console with the original game.
In this case a Doom TAS ought to likewise be such that you could (theoretically) build a device that you connect to the keyboard and mouse ports of the PC, and supply it input that way, and have the TAS replicated on an unmodified PC running an unmodified Doom.
AFAIK that's not the case with strafe50+turning. You cannot build such a device. The demo file contains data that cannot be physically inputted to the game without an unmodified system.
I previously classified this as the same kind of thing as "abusing emulator bugs". However, perhaps a more accurate comparison would be to "make a modified emulator, and abuse it to supply the game with input that's normally not physically possible to be supplied".
Left+right is possible to be supplied to the controller port of an unmodified console running an unmodified game.
Also, has it been actually confirmed that strafe50+turning can be supplied to Doom even with a modified joystick driver? Or is it just hypothetical?
[snipping my post since the relevant junk got moved]
Will Quake or half-life style demos ever be acceptable for submission here, or is that likely not possible due to their nature?
The support comes from command line instruction '-control', which as far as I understand it provides an input structure that the driver writes to and then is passed to the game.
The reason this allows strafe50+turns is that the game code won't call the routine that initiates the turn while in the strafe50 state. But the structure can be filled with the a turn value independently and sent to the game anyway, which fails to perform the same check on it. (I hope that is right)
So allowing strafe50+turns is allowing the call of the '-control' instruction, which does seem to mean that all available states would have to be allowed (going backward faster than 50 etc) otherwise it would be a case of saying "you can use '-control' but only to do strafe50+turns" which seems a bit arbitrary. However no runs do that so this is still hypothetical.
I guess my question here is when are command lines instructions such as that valid? Had the instruction simply been '-strafe50+turns' would that be allowed? Or since the game ordinarily doesn't support it would it be considered a cheat? A more obvious example would be '-run at speed 100' or some such thing.
Yes, this is mostly right.
The limitation to allow strafe50+turning but disallow speeds over 50 is somewhat arbitrary, but not completely:
- There is no check to remove turns while using strafe50. That this doesn't happen is due to a limitation in the control scheme used. (Specifically, pressing the Strafe On button is required to reach strafe speed 50, but that also removes the possibility to turn with the mouse.)
- There is however a check to reduce speeds in any direction when going above 50.
- There is also a warning message when the player exceeds speed 50 by using the -turbo parameter (but only in the forward direction due to lazy coding).
I guess it can be seen more as disallowing speeds over 50, rather than allowing strafe50+turning.
Warp wrote:
1) AFAIK that's not the case with strafe50+turning. You cannot build such a device. 2) The demo file contains data that cannot be physically inputted to the game without an unmodified system.
1) This is correct, strafe50+turning cannot be input via the mouse and keyboard ports.
2) This is incorrect, because mouse and keyboard is not the only way that Doom accepts input. Vanilla unmodified Doom also natively accepts input via the -control parameter.
Warp wrote:
Also, has it been actually confirmed that strafe50+turning can be supplied to Doom even with a modified joystick driver? Or is it just hypothetical?
It hasn't actually been done as far as I know, but it seems obvious from the Doom source code and the source code for the Doom External Control API. The API supplies a movement struct per tic, which is basically the same as the movie format, and we know that the movie format supports strafe50+turns.
If you (or anyone) can recompile the Borland C in the API, we could verify it by making some changes to the source. That would be pretty cool.
z1mb0bw4y wrote:
[snipping my post since the relevant junk got moved]
Will Quake or half-life style demos ever be acceptable for submission here, or is that likely not possible due to their nature?
No. Quake (and probably Half-life since it's based on the Quake engine, but I am not 100% sure) record demos in a way which allows tampering, which is unnoticeable afterwards. Therefore they can never be accepted. Quake-based games have to be recorded in an encapsulating PC emulator or similar.
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Truncated wrote:
mouse and keyboard is not the only way that Doom accepts input. Vanilla unmodified Doom also natively accepts input via the -control parameter.
Sorry if I'm running in circles, but doesn't -control also provide some options that are considered cheating? And if it does, it becomes simply defining (fine tuning) the concept of "pure" input by ourselves, not basing on what it is programmatically able to do.
If you (or anyone) can recompile the Borland C in the API, we could verify it by making some changes to the source. That would be pretty cool.
I don't think Borland is the only way to compile it, but I could try, although I don't have time for it right now (I still might find it if you guys really need).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
edit: oh, and as I've already mentioned on a few places multiple times, none of these TASes are high quality (void glitch is possible on many places yet not used and totally suboptimal at e3m5 or e3m6 whatever. movement is totally sluggish (player waits for 20 tics and go forward if he magically gets into the teleport), do I need to fucking continue?
I don't see this as a problem. It just means that the runs can (and likely will) be obsoleted at some point by better runs. The first submission for any game is supposed to be good, it doesn't have to be perfect.
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Guys please check if this video looks/sounds correctly. Ignore the first frame blink though.
Link to video
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Framerate appears to be choppy and unsteady; no idea if it's a problem on my end. I find it most noticeable during the screen melt, which appears to stutter slightly.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Joined: 4/17/2010
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Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
This is how it's dumped from glboom. All other options I tried last time were worse, like av desync. Here, it runs like this:
1 1 2 2 3 3 4 5 6 7, repeat.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11473
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
FUK FUK FUK FUK FUK FUK FUK FUK FUK HOW CAN THAT FUK HAPPEN I CHECKED FUK FUK
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
