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Posted: 9/9/2015 4:30 PM
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jlun2
Skilled player (1737)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4979
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
GBA TASer of 2010
Amaraticando wrote:
Be careful, your TAS that you spent months making can be summarily deleted by them...
That's why you (and others) probably shouldn't immediately delete the input file right after making the encode.
LLCoolDave wrote:
This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.
Posted: 9/9/2015 5:00 PM
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TASeditor
Editor, Skilled player (1535)
Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319
Glitchy TAS of 2015 NES TASer of 2014 Speedy TAS of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
unauthorized software Which unauthorized software does Nintendo mean, the emulator or ROM? As long as this isn't clear, I'd say you're not bound to the statement. Also the emulator isn't unauthorized, if you let it run on your PC. Nintendo can't forbid which software you run, they can only forbid sharing or downloading ROM files. copies of games Every game, no matter on cartdrige, on VirtualConsole or as a ROM file, is a copy. So does Nintendo sue themselves? distribute or continue work on the modification Hilarious! He never shared an ROM file, which contains copyrighted data from Nintendo, didn't he? How do they want to control that you aren't working on hacks... Oh I get it, you're supposed to buy Sucky Mario Maker. Nintendo want us to stop TASing, so we buy their games... time to play some xbox!
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Posted: 9/9/2015 5:06 PM
(Edited: 9/9/2015 5:27 PM)
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TehBerral
Active player (263)
Joined: 8/14/2014
Posts: 188
Location: North Kilttown
I apologize in advance for the essay coming up. This issue is something I've spent years thinking and debating about, and before I say what I'm about to say I want it clear that I haven't bought any of the current gen consoles - I actually don't own any of last gen's either, sadly. But all and all I don't want to see any of the big three suffer, ideally I want to see a growing competitive market where the consumers benefit by the influx of well-executed ideas and the companies benefit from happy consumers - i.e. patrons = moolah. I'm just covering myself from any "you're a __ fanboy" retorts. Now. Nintendo is in trouble and they know it. The PS4 has sold more than double the Wii U and from a company's competitive standpoint this spells "how are we losing sales? Oh, I see it's these damn 'lettuce players' spoiling the game". Never mind that the most popular LPers nowadays don't really play much besides Minecraft, GTAV and random indie games that even I think are too obscure to care about - Just type in "Let's Play" on YouTube to see what I mean. But to be more on point, every time Nintendo has an issue with sales or something of the like they start poking at LPers more and more. They take a number of videos down, retreat, put on the lambs covering and say they're "all for gamers and we wuv them", until later the cycle repeats. This has happened, in my recollection, no less than 5 times since November of 2012 (when the Wii U was released in America). Now as Nintendo is pushing the Wii U VC more they're left to wonder "why would people re-buy Super Pretendo games that they can play for free with these emulators? Let's coerce them to stop using emulators with bully-boy tactics for a while. Then they will love Zoidberg". As such, who is the big gaming niche that relies on emulators? The fact remains is that Nintendo sees it as they're losing money, no matter how anecdotal that claim is, they're going to try and eliminate what they see as a money loss anyway they can. Because it can't be an issue with the games at all. It's someone else's fault. It's the same thing the music industry thinks about piracy - it's the problem, not the homogenized, identikit nature of the radio or the fact that a 9 song album cost $25+ where I live. But I digress (quite hard, actually). The point is that this has been going on with LPers for years now, and now that TASing is becoming more widely known - with the help of the 'GDQ appearances, no doubt - the community has grown thankfully, but it also becomes a bigger target to companies like this. Unfortunately I don't think this will be amicably resolved until the copyright laws themselves are more clear as to the rights of the IP holder and the consumer (and this allows reasonable freedom for both). As it is now, too many grey areas exist and given how tied-in big business is into legislative measures (I can only speak for my country in that regard) I don't see that happening soon, if at all.
Somewhat damaged.
Posted: 9/9/2015 5:13 PM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11473
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
You're a __ fanboy!!!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 9/9/2015 5:17 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2477)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
TASeditor wrote:
Oh I get it, you're supposed to buy Sucky Mario Maker.
That's not all. In the Nintendystopia, you can't even try to complete the game as fast as possible unless you use the Nintendo Demos Archive System while playing the game. It's like... If the inventor of chess would not have drowned in rice grains, he would be mass deleting chess videos right now.
Posted: 9/9/2015 5:20 PM
(Edited: 9/11/2019 1:57 PM)
Post subject: History Lesson with Spikestuff.
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Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2631)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6435
Location: The land down under.
Flash TASer of 2022 PSX TASer of 2016
The issue so far is that Nintendo has currently targeted people who are not partnered on YouTube, except. There was a TAS that went down on YouTube (Brought up on 14th July) on SwordlessLink's YouTube due to a copyright with Nintendo. There was the alternate over at WebNations (apparently) and the video was still alive and kicking. Both WebNations and SwordlessLink are known to be partnered on YouTube, whether either account had motorization we don't know. (Okay, that's a lie, WebNations monetizes their content. We don't know if SL had that monetized) When was the video actually taken down? "Who knows? I don't. Do you? I don't. Do you? I don't. D- WELCOME TO" STUPID CRAP WITH NINTENDO!
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Posted: 9/9/2015 5:24 PM
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TehBerral
Active player (263)
Joined: 8/14/2014
Posts: 188
Location: North Kilttown
feos wrote:
You're a __ fanboy!!!
I do love me some blanks.
Somewhat damaged.
Posted: 9/9/2015 10:25 PM
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morningpee
They/Them
Player (55)
Joined: 11/28/2013
Posts: 119
I will be interested to see how this plays out. For the first time, it might make sense to use console verifications as the primary publication videos, when possible. Console verification videos are generally camera footage of the whole playback setup, including the bot and the TV, to emphasize the process for the viewer's benefit. As a legal response, though, nothing but the game footage should be necessary.
Projects: Tetris DS Genesis Toys: Let the Toy Wars Begin
Posted: 9/9/2015 10:39 PM
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Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2631)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6435
Location: The land down under.
Flash TASer of 2022 PSX TASer of 2016
Should also remind everyone of this. So I'm actually going to speculate, that it's not Nintendo of America but once more Nintendo of Japan being the bastards.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Posted: 9/9/2015 10:49 PM
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Amaraticando
It/Its
Editor, Player (159)
Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 673
Location: Brazil
TAS of 2015 SNES TAS of 2015
scahfy wrote:
For the first time, it might make sense to use console verifications as the primary publication videos, when possible.
It implies that Nintendo is legally correct, let alone ethically correct. We don't need to use their hardware in the publication, because emulation is perfectly legal, even under the already rigid copyright laws: "In closing, although a new derived work is created, this new creative work is uncovered work under the doctrine of Fair Use." http://tasvideos.org/Nach/FairUse.html It's also ridiculous to give Nintendo the moral right to delete every video that happens to be recorded with Snes9x, Zsnes, BizHawk, bsnes, etc... Why are they aiming popular videos? Because they aren't right, but are trying to intimidate content creators (due to their failure to innovate). Panga already gave up TAS'ing today...
Posted: 9/10/2015 9:06 AM
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Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
You can't simply claim "this is fair use" and have it be so. Derivative work is, in general, protected by copyright to the original author. The line between copyright-infringing derivative work and fair use is really fuzzy. Needless to say, you probably will not win the legal battle against a megacorporation on this question, so it's useless to even try. Unfortunately this is one of those things you'll simply have to accept, unless you have really good lawyers as friends (or can afford them) who will back you up all the way. Review, commentary and parody are generally protected under fair use, especially if they use only very small portions of the original work. TASes arguably do not fall into any of these.
Posted: 9/10/2015 12:55 PM
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Dom_Dunc
Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 26
What if you uploaded a TAS with a commentary track over it? I always find it ironic whenever nintendo does this. I guess they forgot that their breakout game was a ripoff of king kong.
http://youtube.com/domdunc
Posted: 9/10/2015 2:26 PM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11473
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
Warp wrote:
You can't simply claim "this is fair use" and have it be so. Derivative work is, in general, protected by copyright to the original author. The line between copyright-infringing derivative work and fair use is really fuzzy. Needless to say, you probably will not win the legal battle against a megacorporation on this question, so it's useless to even try. Unfortunately this is one of those things you'll simply have to accept, unless you have really good lawyers as friends (or can afford them) who will back you up all the way. Review, commentary and parody are generally protected under fair use, especially if they use only very small portions of the original work. TASes arguably do not fall into any of these.
When macrocorporation starts feeding people actual shit, you'll have nothing but to eat it, just because you don't have lawyers to help you refuse eating it, right? Am I right? Show me a single case where gameplay footage creator posting his videos without any aim for monetization lost such a case, and then we'll listen to your nonsense (maybe). http://fairusetube.org/guide-to-youtube-removals/3-deciding-if-video-is-fair-use
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 9/10/2015 2:29 PM
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Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Dom Dunc wrote:
What if you uploaded a TAS with a commentary track over it?
"Commentary" in this context means more like "social commentary". Say, like you are making an essay on how a piece of art has affected modern society, or something like that. I do not know if "commentary" in this context extends to commenting the work of art itself, from start to finish. My guess is that it probably doesn't, especially if you are showing the whole original work. Even in reviews and commentaries, there's a (fuzzy) limit to how much of the original work you can use. Usually you should use only small portions of it. Probably once you start approaching something like 50%, it might be too much. But yeah, it's probably really fuzzy, and in those borderline cases it depends on who has the better lawyers.
Posted: 9/10/2015 2:36 PM
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Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
feos wrote:
Show me a single case where gameplay footage creator posting his videos without any aim for monetization lost such a case, and then we'll listen to your nonsense (maybe).
I don't understand why you use such a dismissive and even hostile tone. Gameplay footage is being shut down all the time. There is no "lost such a case" because they don't even go to court. How many letsplayers will sue a corporation when they DMCA a video? If you feel so in the right, then go right ahead, sue Nintendo. Take them to court. When you do that, then maybe I will start taking you seriously.
Posted: 9/10/2015 2:38 PM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11473
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
It's not me that you need to start taking seriosly, it's USA law that youtube and those bullshit pretenders don't care about. Simply because such a question was never raised on a serious level. Nach already succeeded to unblock TASVideosChannel once based on the arguments he gave to youtube. Your turn?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 9/10/2015 6:45 PM
Quote
jlun2
Skilled player (1737)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4979
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
GBA TASer of 2010
feos wrote:
It's not me that you need to start taking seriosly, it's USA law that youtube and those bullshit pretenders don't care about. Simply because such a question was never raised on a serious level. Nach already succeeded to unblock TASVideosChannel once based on the arguments he gave to youtube. Your turn?
Teach us please. :o
LLCoolDave wrote:
This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.
Posted: 9/10/2015 6:59 PM
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TASeditor
Editor, Skilled player (1535)
Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319
Glitchy TAS of 2015 NES TASer of 2014 Speedy TAS of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
Isn't it about downloading ROMs and/or playing on emulators, rather than putting an encode on youtube?
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Posted: 9/11/2015 12:46 AM
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arflech
He/Him
Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 1120
something-something "public performance"
i imgur com/QiCaaH8 png
Posted: 9/11/2015 2:15 AM
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L-Spiro
Joined: 4/18/2007
Posts: 88
Location: Tokyo, Japan
The lawsuits are related to the use of ROM’s, not fair-use, public display, commentary, etc. You could post the exact same videos as long as they were recorded with the real game running on real hardware. Specifically, the game cartridge itself must be a legal copy (but you could use a SupaBoy to play it for example). I suggest a USB device that reads the playback of the emulators and uses a 3D-printed mechanism to physically hit teh buttons on a real device/controller. That would be a fun project, especially overcoming the sycnhronization issues that would otherwise make the “physical playbacks” impossible. L. Spiro
Posted: 9/11/2015 3:05 AM
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Margen67
He/Him
Joined: 5/8/2011
Posts: 17
So basically Link to video
Posted: 9/11/2015 4:11 AM
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TehBerral
Active player (263)
Joined: 8/14/2014
Posts: 188
Location: North Kilttown
L-Spiro wrote:
The lawsuits are related to the use of ROM’s, not fair-use, public display, commentary, etc.
Unless I missed something... what lawsuits exactly? I thought this was simply about encodes being taken down. Besides which that doesn't explain Nintendo throwing a hissy in the past when it came to LPs/reviews etc. Most of which were indeed recorded with real hardware.
Somewhat damaged.
Posted: 9/11/2015 6:00 AM
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L-Spiro
Joined: 4/18/2007
Posts: 88
Location: Tokyo, Japan
TehBerral wrote:
what lawsuits exactly?
* Action taken by Nintendo®.
TehBerral wrote:
Besides which that doesn't explain Nintendo throwing a hissy in the past when it came to LPs/reviews etc. Most of which were indeed recorded with real hardware.
I’m only talking about now. The wording in Nintendo®’s actions make it clear that it is because of the use of ROM’s. L. Spiro
Posted: 9/11/2015 9:56 AM
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andypanther
Any
Former player
Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 1107
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Not again.. I feel like posting a rant. I'm so done with Nintendos bullshit. They will obviously never learn, even if their attitude ends up ruining them. But at this point, I wouldn't even care anymore if that happened. I grew up with their consoles and handhelds and always preferred them over their competitors, thanks to their unique games. I still love their games and want them to do well. But the reality is, that Nintendos best days are long gone. The games are still of high quality and you can always be sure, that they won't be sold to you as half-finished bugfests. But despite that, there is a difference. Nintendo relies too much on the same old formulas, preferably those that are cheaper, like giving us dozens of 2D platformers, but not a single 3D one. They focus a lot on re-releases and remakes (which of course never offer you much more than a graphically upgraded port). It's like they don't care anymore about giving us truly great games and true innovation, they now know exactly what sells and do exactly that, with a very minimalist attitude. That strategy may still work and make them tons of money, but how long will it last? The success of the Wii harmed Nintendo a lot in the long run, it put them in a very bad position to be in. It's very possible that they're new console will be the last, everything we know about that new piece of hardware tells us that. The new console would need the best innovation since the NES to prove me wrong. And so I ask myself: Would it really be such a loss if Nintendo wen't out of business? It's pretty obvious that they will never change. They're still the best game publisher, no one even comes close in giving you so much quality software, but they are still going downhill. How is that even possible with so many ridiculously marketable franchises? If it would actually happen that Nintendo wen't out of business, other companies would pay EVERY price to get just one of them. So it would be very likely, that we would still see all the games we want, maybe even better than now. Oh and of course, copyright law is broken and so on, everyone knows it, nothing ever changes..
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Posted: 9/11/2015 10:37 AM
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Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
It's interesting how different the attitudes of different companies are. Take Valve, for example. When someone made a really popular tool to mod their best-selling games, what did Valve do? Did they issue cease&desist demands and shut down the entire project? No, the embraced it and published it on Steam. Oh, you like editing and creating new content for our games? Here, take the full level editor as a bonus with any of our games. Heck, take the entire SDK. Knock yourself out; go bananas. We are thrilled to see what you'll come up with.
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