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Post subject: Pokemon GSC
Joined: 7/5/2004
Posts: 5
This could be a nice companion to the RB run that is currently being worked on. I'm currently trying to do a bit of planning while also experimenting a bit with this whole rerecording thing. Some first thoughts:
  • Both Cyndaquil and Totodile might be worthwhile as starters. Chikorita has a huge disadvantage at the first gyms and doesn't get much more worthwhile elsewhere, nor are its stats suitable for fast attacking. Cyndaquil is probably the best choice since it and its evolutions are faster than Totodile and the Spec Attack is higher.
  • Since three water-type HMs are required, it would probably be best to catch a seperate HM slave for that. Although according to my notes a couple of Pokemon can learn all three of those, only Poliwag might be worth it (see below). That will, however, require the time to be set right.
  • A flying Pokemon could also be welcome. Since Poliwag only shows up in the evening, Hoothoot would be a nice fit; however, since we do not need them until later any other alternative could work.
  • Cut and Strength: All starters can learn both of these after evolving, however, that will take up valuable move slots. Either Blackthorn's Move Deleter could delete Cut when that place is reached (I don't believe it's necessary in Kanto), or a Sandshrew could be caught in Union Cave.
  • Gold, Silver or Crystal? Crystal might be best. The storyline events (most notably the Burned Tower) will take a bit longer, but it means we can catch Poliwag on a grass route at the start of the game.
This obviously needs a lot more planning, but any ideas/comments/etc now would be welcome.
Joined: 3/14/2005
Posts: 49
perhaps it would be cool, but I have no idea if it uses RNG to determine the randomness. If the above statement is true, this run would be definetly possible.
Joined: 7/5/2004
Posts: 5
As far as I know, the RBY and GSC engines are fairly similar, at least where randomness is concerned, so that should not be a problem.
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
I don't know much about Poliwag but every time i played G/S/C, I used Crabby/Kingler as my "tool" since you could tech at least 4 (mayby even more) different HMs to it. I would be good idea to watch the Pokemon Red speedrun and get some hints from it. For example use mainly one pokemon by teaching it different type attacks so it will be good against anything. Catching Suicune or Lugia may halp you in some place (because of their high level) but it would also take a long time to get them. That's why you need to think do you really need them.
Which run should I encode next? :)
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
Unfortunately I can't help you out here much - I don't own a physical cart of G/S/C (only Red) and am fairly unfamiliar with the game (well, at least not nearly as familiar with it as I am with R/B/G). I do remember that all three starters pretty much sucked, though =P But yes, you may want to look around on other sites (such as serebii.net) for movelists and the like to help you plan out your starter and its' moveset. Bisqwit's battling bot could also help you, because it is updated to G/S/C and you should be able to plan out your fights with it (look in the R/B topic for the link). Using Krabby as a slave could help, but if I remember correctly it can't learn Waterfall, so you can't rely on it entirely (and you'll likely have to catch a second "slave" such as Goldeen/Poliwag/Marill anyways for that purpose). It will allow you not to have to give Cut/Strength/Surf/Dive/maybe even Rock Smash to your starter or some other combination of slaves, though.
Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 57
Good luck with the clock. Make sure it won't desync the video. With starters, we really should compare them well. Few things: -Totodile can get surf kinda early, flamethower is learned by leveling -Both of them can learn dig, I think. -Totodile has advantage in the dragon gym (ice punch), while cyndaquil defeats bug gym, ice gym (typh can learn thunderpunch, and the ground/ice pokemon are just weak (what was the name?)). Kingdra might be annoying with the hyper potion usage. -Totodile learns bite, which sadly is almost useless. Surf (95 * 1,5 'cause of STAB) defeats Bite (60 * 2 with weakness) in every way except that it may flinch. Ice Punch defeats Dragon Gym and Lance easily, and Earthquake (victory road, not far from the main road) kills easily in kanto. I'm not sure whether toto can learn thunderpunch or not. Cyndaquil has flamethower, which is not really that useful in many places, and typh can learn thunderpunch. -Abuse king's rock. It has a small chance of flinching, making the enemy lose his turn and hopefully saving time. It only works with moves with nothing special, like surf or earthquake. I hope that all is correct information.
I won't give up unless my victory is assured!
Joined: 7/5/2004
Posts: 5
Krabby's not on the list of a water Pokemon that learns all three water moves; furthermore, for Krabby I'd have to pick up the Good Rod while Poliwag is available on one of the first routes. An alternative might be Psyduck (in C only) in Ilex Forest, since Seel and Horsea require that you have Surf first, and Chinchou too requires fishing. I've been looking through the Pokemon Red thread for ideas, and have it on my list to watch as well as some preparation. Lugia can't be picked up until near the end of the game (in Crystal, Silver Feather is the one picked up in Pewter City), I'll have to check whether picking up Suicune is worth it during the test run. I've got my own (Windows) tool for checking out movesets. I'm still trying to make up my mind, though (and this, too, will need some experimenting. If I go with Cyndaquil/Typhlosion, it'll probably be something like Flamethrower, Thunderpunch (helping with dragons and water types), Swift (from level 45 onward, what to use until then?) or Return (this will require a detour, but if happiness can be kept up the power is better) or Strength/Cut (but since both are necessary before one can be removed, a seperate HM slave might be more worth it in the end), and last probably Dig, for most of the same reasons as in the Red run. One major annoyanceis the amount of different HMs that are required, mostly those of the water type) that are really useful for only one occasion. It's frustrating. Edit: Totodile learning Surf would be a useful in battles, but since it doesn't learn Waterfall, an HM slave for Waterfall would be required anyway. Its Special Attack is also lower compared to Typhlosion, another disadvantage. Cyndaquil appears to be the better choice at the moment. As for the above moveset, according to my sources Kings Rock would work on Dig and Swift/Return. It should indeed be helpful to be abused.
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
Is someone makeing this TAS yet? Since I just finished my Megaman & Bass TAS and would like to start a new one. I though to make TAS of Pokemon Crystal but if someone is already makeing it, I won't bother. I'm not so much interested in planing ahead so I would take few hints here and start it right away. I'm also not a big fan of luckmanipulation so unless someone tells me a easy way to avoid any unnecessary random battles, I would be happy to hear. Otherwise the run will most likely get quite long. :)
Which run should I encode next? :)
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
Before I start makeing this (if no one else already haven't), could someone tell me what all these options are?: Battle Scene: On/Off Battle Style: Set/Shift Menu Account: On/Off I'm not completely sure but i think at least one of these effects the speed of game. So these must be triplechecked before TASing.
Which run should I encode next? :)
Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 57
Battle Scene: Attack animations Battle Style: Choose set and they won't ask whether you want to switch pokemon or not Menu Account: I think it doesn't hurt, but I'm not 100% sure what it is. You can use repels for avoiding random encounters, just notice they only work if your levels are higher than the enemies'. And make sure you have some way to kill geodudes before the first cave!! Tackle is absolutely not enough.
I won't give up unless my victory is assured!
Skilled player (1829)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
This sounds very interesting. At the moment I can come up with at least two things that you should check out thoroughly: 1. What time to set the clock to when you start the game. This has a lot of impact on the game, so check out every factor that changes with the clock and try to choose the optimal time. You have probably already thought about this though. 2. Find out exactly how "luck" works in Pokemon Crystal, since most of the run will contain heavy luck manipulation. Find out how to avoid fights, get critical hits, good stats with your Pokemon etc... Besides that I can only say good luck with your run Joeno, I'll gladly watch the progress, so please keep us informed by posting a WIP! :)
Joined: 4/21/2005
Posts: 32
Location: Georgia, USA
I'm not familiar with Crystal, but the problems with a TAS for Gold/Silver that would add length that could detract from the run would be the fact that you can't usually avoid the trainers in the gyms, and, even worse, the fact that the starters are all pretty much useless in the Johto gyms unless they're overleveled. Most people raise a Geodude for the first gym, trade for Machop to take care of the second, use Drowzee or Kadabra for the fourth, a flying-type for the fifth, Cyndaquil (probably Typhlosion by this point) for the sixth and seventh, and an ice-type for the eighth. So unless you habitually over-level the starter, you'll have to do a lot of catching and raising to really do anything.
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
I started making a run of Pokemon Crystal but it's only a trialrun to check if I'm up to it :) I chose Crystal beacause i have just played it through with my phone :D and because of the hints in here about the Poliwag. I chose the time to be 3:30 AM and i hope i can make it to Violet Town (the 3rd town) in ½h and catch Poliwag in there while there is night. The reason, why I need to play it so close is because when i leave Violet Town and go to the Union Cave, I'm gonna catch Sandshrew from there and it seems to appear only during morning and daytime. (So if you didn't get it, night changes into morning in 4:00 AM) The day i chose to be Monday. Now special reason for that except you can get Magnet (electric power-boosting item) only in Monday. I'm not sure if I'm going to need it but there didn't seem to be any other useful stuff in any other day so i chose this. (Feel free to point out if I should have chosen some other day and why). Well, that's all the planing I have done for it so far. If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears since as you can see, my planings are pretty poor. :) Oh, yeah. Almost forgot. For the starter Pokemon i chose Cyndaquil. That's because Chicorita is weak against Flying (first gym) and i get water type pokemon from Poliwag, so that leaves Totodile out.
Which run should I encode next? :)
Joined: 9/16/2005
Posts: 26
Location: KY
I wish you the best on this run Maza, I'll keep an eye on this thread. :)
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
Thanks Shark. No matter what run I'm making, you seem to be always encouraging me :) I appreciate that.
Which run should I encode next? :)
Joined: 4/21/2005
Posts: 32
Location: Georgia, USA
I wish you luck, too. Definitely looking forward to seeing what you can do with this. Even though I'm sure I won't be of much help, given that I'm more of an RBY person than GSC, I'll be glad to offer any assistance I can. :)
Editor, Expert player (2082)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3284
Good luck, Maza. I recommend the following guide. Even though it's a multiplayer strategy guide, it covers RBY and GSC game mechanics. http://db.gamefaqs.com/portable/gameboy/file/pokemon_strategy.txt Also, check out the Pokemon RB thread somewhere in this forum. Tilus is working on a no-damage run for Pokemon RB.
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
I have a feeling that if I complete this run, it will be somewhat imperfect since i don't have tha patince to make every hit critical etc. Anyaways, should I catch Pidgey or Hoothoot as my flying pokemon? Pidgey would have Gust at the start (flying type attack) and Hoothoot would be able to learn Flash (which I most likely won't need if I'm not going to make any detours to dark caves). And what should I name my rival? :) I was thinking ??? since when you meet him the first time he says "My name's ???".
Which run should I encode next? :)
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
Hmm... I just check my progress and found out that it desyncs with the rom which i used to make it with! I don't know what causes this and so I'm not going to make this run. Sorry for getting all of your hopes up. :( But if anyone is going to make a run of Pokemon Crystal, now there are few good hints from me. :)
Which run should I encode next? :)
Player (207)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Do you NEED Flash to get through caves in this game, or is it just a convenience as in the first games?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
Well, if you are going straigh through the game (no catchin extra pokemon, getting items and so on), you wont need Flash since you don't need to go through any of those dark caves. But if you are going in dark cave, you can't se a thing in the (except the exit) with out Flash. It's just a black screen where you are in the middle. In short: For speedruns, you don't need Flash :)
Which run should I encode next? :)
Player (207)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Ah, so it'll look like that part in Dragon Warrior?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Editor, Expert player (2082)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3284
The movie desyncs? Might it have something to do with VBA's internal clock? I'm really puzzled as to how the VBA internal clock works. The clock seems to run even when VBA is not executing (like how it's supposed to be). Perhaps it draws its time from the computer's clock. That's not the main point, however. The main point is whether a movie run is dependent on the clock being set at the right time (the same time as when the movie was started). Setting the in-game time in no way changes the internal clock, and even if it did, the game draws from the internal clock before you even set the in-game time (when it displays the "what time is it" box) at the beginning. If this is true, then without an option that forces the internal clock to reset, a consistent GSC movie might be impossible. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
I was kinda worried this would happen.. Here's my own personal experience with the internal clock while playing GSC: The in game clock isn't immediately set to your own computer's clock, and you can set it to something different than what your computer's clock displays. However, from the moment you set that internal game clock, the in game clock will be synched relative to your computer's clock, and it will stay synched no matter what you do (change your computer's internal clock mid-game, save state and load state sometime else, etc). So yeah, it might very well be impossible to do a conventional GSC run using VBA.. ...unless it were possible somehow to disable the internal clock feature. You wouldn't be able to do things exactly the way you want to (except that you might have to Fly to the first town, change the clock, then Fly back if you wanted to do something time-based), but whatever it takes to fix the desynch problem, I guess..
Player (207)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
What, you mean making the clock stop altogether? I don't think that's a very good idea if you're trying to make runs within the rules of the real game.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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