Could you do this in these spots that could potentially save time in a TAS?
-After blowing up restricted sector and going up elevator. The room with the rippers and e-tank
-After getting SA, the two vertical pirate shafts you normally space jump up in sector 1
This is pretty awesome, even if it's TAS-only. Great find!
[Respawn Spin Clip]
Unassisted. Maybe useful somewhere? Regardless, at least this wholly opens up the memory corruption outside of a TAS.
I wonder, could this be used to take the ARC-PYR shortcut instead of the elevators for emergency in FrankerZ? I don't recall if Adam locks you out of ARC
-After blowing up restricted sector and going up elevator. The room with the rippers and e-tank
I doubt this is faster than 2 or 3 spacejumps.
kirbymastah wrote:
-After getting SA, the two vertical pirate shafts you normally space jump up in sector 1
No, you'd run into one of the pirates. Those shafts are pretty fast just with jumping already.
Anty-Lemon wrote:
I wonder, could this be used to take the ARC-PYR shortcut instead of the elevators for emergency in FrankerZ? I don't recall if Adam locks you out of ARC
You can't reach the shortcut regardless at that point in the game. I don't see how this trick would help.
ZX497 wrote:
Well, I'm in favor of switching everything to RTA. I think that'd make for a more enjoyable TAS over all.
I probably will for next time, but I'd have to redo the whole TAS from Serris if I wanted to save real time as well.
How does the early PB compare to grabbing it during clean-up? You could possibly get that tank, along with the E-tank (grab it immediately after BOX), and save a bit of backtracking.
Since this method is kinda slow, maybe it won't save any time. But, worth making sure, I think.
EDIT:
Well, maybe not. The TAS can grab the two items in like 22 seconds or so... don't think that's enough time to even get the PB tank :P
Also, both of Kirbymastah's suggestions are worth timing. Space Jump is kind of slow in the end, cause you need to fall for 13 frames to activate it again... wallball can re-jump in 2. You couldn't do it all the way up the pirate shaft, but, well, it's still a decent distance you can cover. Not to mention, you should be able to kill at least the first pirate above you.
EDIT:
You can kill both pirates blocking you with a charged spinshot, released during the setup. So, yeah that's the full distance for that climb, it should easily be worth it.
Link to video
Debug Rom. But that's the climb.
For the first suggestion (the ripper room), it's also worth testing just a regular door jump. It's gonna be a pretty tight frame-war between the methods I feel.
Link to video
Another 3-block wide room for memco. This location was included in Bio's OoB video, but not the full shabang. You don't need the frozen enemy to perform this, the crumble block is the key. When you're under it facing right (or you are unmorphing to get inside of it), the input is:
- 1 frame jump
- 1 frame left (turn around)
- 1 frame A (respin)
- 1 frame right+A
- 1 frame right
It's doable unassisted, but really tough. There's no leeway whatsoever.
The interesting thing about this is, that done this way (with the frozen enemy to get under the crumble block), you don't need to respawn the block. So, this method also works for the JPN-release.
EDIT:
Actually, this is a bit more doable unassisted that I thought at first. Once you get the correct position for the enemy (those flying bat-things also work), walk forward to get inside the block in standing animation. At that point, all you have to do is make a 4 frame high (yeah, exactly 4 frames) standing jump facing right, and hold forward.
EDIT2:
Nvm. Apparently ice clipping doesn't even work in the JPN version, so, can't do this either. Also wallball doesn't seem to work. What a boring version -_-
EDIT3:
Ok, you CAN do this on JPN. Gotta freeze a bat on a proper height so you can just run inside the block. Not really sure why the geemer-dude doesn't work but whatever. Also, once you're inside the crumble block, you can turn around to get inside the pillar itself. From there, you can do a right-facing straight jump, and 5 or 6 frames later hit right to make the clip. So, a whopping 2 frame window, which is, well, quite nicely doable. The frame-window for freezing the bat on a proper height is also 2 frames.
Link to video
Made it work, boys (and girls).
Also, unlike in the video, you'd actually wanna just keep going right, through the wall, instead of popping up through the top. Dunno why I didn't do that but whatever.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdXfzDHKu0A
Made it work, boys (and girls).
Also, unlike in the video, you'd actually wanna just keep going right, through the wall, instead of popping up through the top. Dunno why I didn't do that but whatever.
Words cannot express how much I love you right now.
Link to video
For hundo.
Also oddly enough, this is actually doable RTA as well. Dunno if it's a timesaver unassisted, but here's the breakdown anyway:
1. face right in morph ball form.
2. when the block respawns, push up.
3. 5-7 frames of jump.
4. release jump.
If you hold right during the jump (it still needs to be a neutral jump), you gain an extra functional frame, giving you a 4-7 frame window for the jump.
Once you're in the wall, morph into a ball and just hold jump.
I'm really enjoying this thread, even moreso than I was before :) I wonder how many of these we could get to sync on hardware, especially if we get some ⚡️ in before AGDQ2017 ;)
I'd thought I'd never be able to say this, but I can't wait for the next Fusion sequence break to be found. This stuff is great.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
ZX WHAT THE FUCK
Time to restart the TAS, I think.
Edit: Ok, add the room in sector 2 with tons of crumble blocks to the oob list. I'm sure there are others.
Edit 2: SA-X skip saves 15 seconds and 16 frames.
Edit 3: The OoB you found in sector 6 actually saves 45 frames or so in TAS.
There's one really easy OoB at Sector 3 (3block wide room too, so yay for memco again). It's that room with an E-tank and a Missile tank to the left of that long heated room, with a railing you can grab at the top.
You just clip inside the pillar on the right using Screw Attack as it's rising, then perform a spinjump left. Done. I think I'll play my JPN-save up to this point to check if it works there as well.
EDIT:
Non-functional on JPN. Clipping inside the pillar works just the same, but the pillar doesn't actually turn solid until you leave the space it occupies... so it's basically like the gates in Zero Mission.
I'm not sure the early pb in sector 3 actually saves time. You go through that room anyway during cleanup. Though it's possible that grabbing the pb is almost as fast as going through the room normally.
Might have to think about rerouting 100%, honestly.
Oh, yeah. I was looking at an older TAS, I guess the current one does to left through that room, huh. The older one made like, a detour for these items.
EDIT:
You might wanna time how long it takes to go through the room using this method anyway, if you skip getting the PB tank. I'm thinking the E-tank pick-up wastes too much time for this to be worth it, but worth a check anyway. Also, I'm not sure I got the fastest block spawn there, I might've missed a spawn cycle there.
EDIT2:
Nvm. Didn't miss a cycle. So I guess the block spawn is the hard limiter.
But you have to pick up the etank anyway. The only slow part is waiting for the block to respawn. So there's a good chance it's faster. I'm not going to bother timing it yet because I won't be doing a 100% TAS for a while, and who knows how many more tricks you'll find before then.
In fact, I won't even bother restarting the 0% TAS yet. There's already about 20 seconds that can be saved. I'll wait until we stop finding so many tricks.
Yeah but like, I meant for any%. As in, would something like this actually be the fastest way to traverse the room. I doubt it, like, I actually think it's gonna be a fair bit slower than the bottom route, but uhh, yea.
Actually, doesn't any% pick one E-tank, tho, for dboosting? I mean, could potentially substitute whatever one is picked up for this.
