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Posted: 2/28/2016 3:44 PM
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Hikaruon
Joined: 6/22/2012
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Challenger wrote:
The zip in Green Hill Zone Act 2 was discovered a long time ago.
Yes, but both strategies didn't work in Game Gear version
Posted: 5/5/2016 5:16 AM
Post subject: Sonic 1 (SMS) TAS
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The8bitbeast
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I'm considering working on a TAS Sonic 1 on the Master System for my next project and wanted to check a few things. I'm aware that there's a TAS of the GG version and I'd like to know if there would be any interest for a TAS of the Master System version. There would be enough differences that it wouldn't be a clone of the GG TAS. There are different layouts for some levels including labyrinth and the final boss. It would also be more entertaining as the time bonus doesn't take as long in the Master System version. Also, the Master System is the original version and I feel that it deserves a TAS. My other query is regarding timing. Real time is out of the question due to the total screens (although a playaround optimizing for real time could be interesting). But there are a few issues with optimizing purely for game time. Act 3 of each zone doesn't have game time so that weakens the game time argument. Also using the death warp in Scrap Brain 2 causes the game time to be >1:30, which is longer than no death warp. The goal choice for time that I would aim for is real time - bonus screen time, so the death warp would be allowed. The main controversial thing about my timing is that I would like to stop movement at the end level sign to speed up the animation rather than having it go high in the air. So instead of hitting the sign at full speed, I would stop movement provided it doesn't add game time. This would be the main difference between the TAS timing and conventional RTA timing and I'd be interested to hear peoples opinions on it.
Posted: 5/5/2016 3:40 PM
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Hikaruon
Joined: 6/22/2012
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I think best to do any% and 100% in Master System version, Game Gear is more easy to get the emerald from Labyrinth, but overall is more easy to get emeralds in Master System ver
Posted: 5/10/2016 2:08 AM
Post subject: Horizontal Underflow
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The8bitbeast
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Horizontal underflow is possible in Sonic 1 (SMS). It is not possible in GHZ1 due to the final cutscene map being to the right of GHZ1, but it is theoretically possible in all other levels. There are 2 conditions that need to be satisfied for this to be useful: 1. The ground level at the start of the level is higher than the ground level at the goalpost. Otherwise the underflow will occur, but sonic falls and dies. 2. There is enough room at the start of the level to reach the speed required to underflow. This speed is around the point 0x1000 and it is possible to reach this speed given enough room. There are levels which satisfy condition 2 but not 1. For example GHZ3 has a lot more room than required: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdhRoCtrOWQ There are also levels that have the right height for underflow to occur but not enough room to reach the speed required. Eg. GHZ2, LZ2. LZ2 is the closest level. If an underflow occured, it would skip the entire level saving roughly 40 seconds. My best speed reaching the left wall was roughly 0x0060 short of the underflow speed. If I had 4 more frames worth of room to accelerate, the underflow would occur. I will try to make this better and achieve the underflow. If anyone has ideas to speed up quicker they would be greatly appreciated (I'm thinking something like pause buffering BLJ's in Super Mario 64). Also, it could be possible that the GG version has enough room, but I haven't looked into this.
Posted: 5/11/2016 10:15 PM
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Tee-N-Tee
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[URL=http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/download/30841218133985336]Labyrinth 2 in 0:08::02[/url]
Posted: 5/11/2016 10:57 PM
Post subject: LZ2
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The8bitbeast
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WOW! Thankyou so much Tee-N-Tee!, I had a look at it and I was wondering if there were any new techniques that were used to achieve this, or whether it was just optimization od the old one (D,R,D,R...). Also you needed less speed to underflow than I needed. Could that be something to do with the current animation because I found that it varied when trying to find the critical velocity. This has given me even more motivation to TAS this game, please let me know if you have any other optimizations in mind. Thanks again!
Posted: 5/12/2016 3:48 PM
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marzojr
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Without looking at the movie (no BizHawk for me), I would guess that it is perfect pixel+subpixel starting position so that the availble speed allows the underflow. I don't know about the SMS/GG games, but at least the Genesis games do not depend on the animation, just on the position and speed.
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Posted: 5/13/2016 1:26 PM
Post subject: Game Time is Bad
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The8bitbeast
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Optimizing for game time is bad. In BZ1 at the end, rolling on the bridge will speed you up. But since there is so much lag from the bridge falling, it is actually quicker in real time to jump which slows you down in terms of velocity! Obviously you would jump since it's quicker, but jumping gets a 0:21 on BZ1 (SMS) while rolling gets a 0:19. Ignoring this will lead to TASes which don't consider lag reduction and are suboptimal in real time as a result. With the large increments of the game time along with the lag issues like in BZ1, using game time would take away from the beauty of small optimizations of less than one second. The sensible option in my opinion is to use real time minus the time spent in bonus screens as I mentioned earlier.
Posted: 5/13/2016 4:53 PM
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marzojr
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Link to video Sonic games traditionally focus on in-game time, including the GG version of this game. If you really want to showcase improvements of less than 1 second, use the in-game frame counter. If memory serves, it is not reset between levels in the SMS/GG games, so you need to note what value it was at the start of each level (and this may end up removing a second from the game clock because the frame counter did not start at zero).
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Posted: 5/14/2016 2:44 AM
Post subject: Re: Game time
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The8bitbeast
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I understand why they were using game time in the first place and I'd have to agree that basic real time should not be used. But game time isn't the only solution especially for the TAS. The first issue is the signposts. I will be slowing down so that the signposts don't fly up in the air and take longer. The reason why I want to keep this animation in the timing is that it is completely possible to speed this animation up without looking bad. You only have to slow down at the goalpost and not earlier in the level. Every frame you can save in the level is still important. Cutting this out of timing can lead to some carelessness. For example in the GG TAS at the end of Green Hill 1, they had plenty of time to line up with the sign post and stop movement before the screen caught up. But they let it fly up instead, costing real time even though hitting it slowly wouldn't affect game time. The idea of using frame count sounds better (provided it stops on fadeout, not hitting signpost), but there is still one issue with it. I'm reasonably sure that the timer doesn't increase during lag. This means that if I used game time, I wouldn't have to care about lag reduction at all. For example in BZ2, I am doing some heavy lag reduction to speed it up. If I used the in game frame counter, this would be equivalent to an unoptimized TAS that lags the game unnecessarily and takes longer in real time. Using the in game timer would cause making the TAS to be too easy especially for BZ2. The GG TAS claims to optimize for game time as far as I can tell, but it also avoids breaking the speed cap in some areas due to lag of animations. This is completely contradictory. It is sometimes slower in real time due to the lag, but faster in game time due to sonic being physically faster and the game time not counting during lag. The bonus screens on the Master System version are a lot more sensible than the GG version. The range where you should wait for the bonus time in the master system version is 26.6-29.9 seconds, where you should wait for the timer to reach 30. The GG version has bonus screens which are much more excessive. I'm hoping that none of my times fall in this range so that I can claim to optimize completely for real time. Otherwise it will be total real time minus bonus screen time. I understand that real time is bad for most sonic games, but game time has its issues too.
Posted: 9/26/2016 10:02 PM
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Greenalink
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Possible Labyrinth 3 improvement for the GG version https://twitter.com/Greenalink/status/778685360272318468 GG: Invisible Spring bug in Sky Base Act 2, it can be spawned anywhere if I had a better understanding on memory values, useful for Good Ending GG runs. https://twitter.com/Greenalink/status/778196682806820864
greenalink.blogspot.com
Posted: 6/27/2017 7:36 AM
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The8bitbeast
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mike89 wrote:
So a YouTube user by the name of Trapstar uploaded a bunch of old videos from TSC, including... SprintGod's original Sonic 1 GG videos! The two relevant videos for the strategies we never fully ascertained are: Jungle 1 Labyrinth 1 According to Sprint earlier in this topic the Labyrinth 1 strat is only possible on v1.1, which disables the vertical zipping glitch that makes Labyrinth 2 faster. So which one saves more time should determine the version used.
Does anyone know what these strats are? The main one I'm insterested in is the Labyrinth one so that I can decide whether to use 1.0 or 1.1. If anyone knows what the jungle one is that would be helpful too but I'm assuming it's in the published TAS anyway, unlike the Labyrinth 1 strat since the TAS used 1.0.
Posted: 7/2/2017 12:21 AM
Post subject: New Timesave
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The8bitbeast
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https://youtu.be/jAo5LARuYfM Found this while preparing for this TAS, lots of info in the description. Pretty sure 1.0 is the way to go now. Basically it's a massive zip off the second platform in Labyrinth 1 for the GG version, should save 10-20 seconds in the TAS I think. I can probably get higher with it, haven't investigated it fully.
Posted: 12/7/2017 4:17 AM
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The8bitbeast
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Timesave for categories where the emeralds are required https://youtu.be/WjTVhIEvtRA
Posted: 10/13/2018 12:12 PM
Post subject: Bridge 1 Timesave
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The8bitbeast
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There's a glitch where the falling bridges can shoot you up like a spring. I was first made aware of it here: https://clips.twitch.tv/RoughHappyPicklesPermaSmug I'm not exactly sure how it works and it's quite rare, but I did it and saved some time on Bridge 1 for any%. It's about 100 frames in real time: https://youtu.be/iJXsJTuSezY I also found this related glitch where you can exceed the end of the level in Bridge 1. It's not useful: https://youtu.be/f7SdbB5cyhw
Posted: 12/24/2018 4:00 AM
Post subject: Jungle 1 new strat (GG)
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The8bitbeast
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Werster found a way to bounce of the crab in Jungle 1 on Game Gear. It saves 3-4 seconds. Here's a TAS of the level with it: https://youtu.be/-L2E_17KyIk Button File: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/52074362842371342
Posted: 1/18/2019 9:07 AM
Post subject: Jungle 1 SMS 7 second time save
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The8bitbeast
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I saved 7 seconds on Jungle 1 on Master System bringing the IGT down to 0:18 This TAS is optimized for IGT, not real time and there is still time to save. Real time optimization is very similar. There's more info in the youtube encode Encode: https://youtu.be/8FGK0N2LcLQ Button File: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/52634195355959792 Edit: About a 20 frame improvement with a different route which uses some more roll speed instead of a spring bounce: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/52634494278801183
Posted: 2/13/2019 7:42 PM
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Paused
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Hey 8bit; I know it's not exactly a valid run, what it being a hack and all, but did you ever upload the button inputs for that Bridge2 with out the autoscroll camera anywhere? If you don't mind, I'd like to check it out. For those unaware I'm referring to this; Link to video
Posted: 2/13/2019 10:42 PM
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The8bitbeast
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Paused wrote:
Hey 8bit; I know it's not exactly a valid run, what it being a hack and all, but did you ever upload the button inputs for that Bridge2 with out the autoscroll camera anywhere? If you don't mind, I'd like to check it out.
Sure thing Paused. I must have forgotten to upload the bk2 at the time http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/53224092063830826 To make the ROM hack, change the address at 156A3 to 04.
Posted: 2/14/2019 6:30 PM
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Cool! Thanks 8bit.
Posted: 2/7/2020 9:30 AM
Post subject: :)
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SonicFan53
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I submitted a TAS of Green Hill Zone act 1 that I'm pretty sure is a record.
*playing Sonic Chaos*
Posted: 2/7/2020 9:51 AM
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Spikestuff
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SonicFan53 wrote:
I submitted a TAS of Green Hill Zone act 1 that I'm pretty sure is a record.
It isn't. The8bitbeast - 18.25 You - 18.33 You can find this out by using the watch timers for the more real numbers.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Posted: 2/23/2020 6:47 AM
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SonicFan53
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http://tasvideos.org/6621S.html This is the link to my rejected Sonic 1 (8-Bit) TAS movie. It's just Green Hill act 1.
*playing Sonic Chaos*
Posted: 6/24/2022 9:38 PM
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Hikaruon
Joined: 6/22/2012
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From 100% run, is possible to skip the first platform session from Sky Base Act 2, I didn't know if is camera or the ship have some oscillation, Link to video
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