Post by Samsara

Posted: 8/14/2016 8:06 AM

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Kung_Knut

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Joined: 8/10/2016
Posts: 85
Location: Sweden

So it seems there actually existed a topic for this game. Funny I didn't find it. Link_7777's run from 2010 does what I intended to do, so I guess I'm obsoleted before trying. Hey Link, did you ever submit? If you didn't, I urge you to do so. Its a good run.

Posted: 8/14/2016 8:46 AM

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link_7777

Experienced player (852)

Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267

No, I never submitted it. From the feedback I got when I posted it it seems it was too long and boring and the goal was a bit nebulous. With the whole vault tier that exists now I might redo it and shoot for a vault run with a shortest time. Unfortunately this means I wouldn't be showing off all of the max scores/heights/distances, or the hang gliding and gun firing events. I could mention that stuff in the notes though. I think there were probably very few like us that have fond memories of this as a kid. With that in mind I don't think your option "B" will be entertaining enough or have a clear enough goal for the voters/judges. For example maxing out the height in the pole vault takes quite a few jumps so it would be pretty repetative. I think the best option is "A". Go for vault. The goal is clear this way, it has to be day 8 since there is a proper ending after that. I should also write down that I think there is a better hurdles strat than what I did before, I now realize you can jump off the top of the hurdles. I would like to see this at some point though. It would be nice to dig in to the horizontal bar a little more and find a good RTA strat.

Posted: 8/16/2016 8:47 PM

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Kung_Knut

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Joined: 8/10/2016
Posts: 85
Location: Sweden

The Vaultable run (A) is indeed the easiest to get published. I'd argue, however, that a well defined "B" run would be more entertaining. I don't see the Pole Vault maxout as a big problem, seeing as there are numerous published Moon-runs with long boring parts in them. But if 8 days are needed, a "B" run is likely hard to get published because of the necessary (boring) repetitiveness of days 1-4 and 5-8. I don't see any chance for a playaround run during 8 days either. There's not enoung to play around with to keep it entertainig for 8 days.

Posted: 8/17/2016 8:39 PM

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andrewg

Experienced player (699)

Joined: 2/19/2006
Posts: 742
Location: Quincy, MA

Make sure you do the hammer throw glitch where you throw it too short to register a max distance.

Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner - Andrew Gardikis

Posted: 10/10/2016 2:51 AM

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DrD2k9

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Editor, Judge, Expert player (2070)

Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1012
Location: US

I just completed a TAS for this game right before I was directed to this forum topic by Samsara. I don't know why I didn't find it when searching before I started the TAS. I'll be submitting soon. It's a complete run of the 8-Day Olympic Mode attempting to finish as quickly as possible to reach the end-game cut scene. As this was the goal, I do not attempt the Exhibition Events. There are only subtle differences between days 1-4 and days 5-8 On days 1-4, I either attempted to just barely qualify or max score based on whichever will be faster. (i.e. Fouling to save time on jumps/throws and hitting all clay pigeons to save time on skeet.) On Days 5-8 I try to maintain a very fast speed but max the results to attain gold (with the exception of Pole Vault where I don't try to surpass 6m0 height as that is the max initial starting height and satisfactory for a gold medal). My apologies to Kung Knut. As mentioned earlier, I didn't find this topic until after I had completed my TAS. If you are still considering this game or in the process of working on it, perhaps your's could be more of an attempt for entertainment if you include the exhibition events. (Of course you are also welcome to try and best my time.) I'll reply here with a link to the submission once I get it submitted.

Posted: 10/10/2016 4:25 AM

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DrD2k9

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Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1012
Location: US

Submission: http://tasvideos.org/5250S.html Discussion: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18460

Posted: 10/10/2016 4:59 PM

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DrD2k9

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Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1012
Location: US

I've found some new optimizations already and have withdrawn this submission. (I feel like an idiot having to do so this quickly.) I will take into consideration the comments in the video discussion for my updated submission. Major changes will include adding the exhibition events as some feel the TAS of Olympic mode is incomplete without them.

Posted: 10/10/2016 5:15 PM

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Kung_Knut

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Joined: 8/10/2016
Posts: 85
Location: Sweden

DrD2k9, no need to apologize. I discontinued my run because I felt I needed to attempt a goal I was not interested in making, and I got bored examining the optimal RNG for the fencing. And I too did not find this thread when I searched for it. Does an amp in the subject bug the search engine? I will however restate my feedback on your cancelled run (which I found entertaining), in case you missed it when you cancelled: I have a minor problem with the goal: Gold medals. Isn't it so, that you can get gold without maxing the score on triple jump, hammer throw, pole vault and archery where you would be able to save time by ending the events earlier on a lower score? If not, then I apologize. But if so, then I'd rather like to see the (in my opinion) more well-defined goal of maximum score, qualifying as soon as possible on day 1-4, then showcasing getting max score on day 5-8. (And finishing with both exhibition events would be a nice touch too.) Also, isn't it faster to jump up and land on top of the hurdles in Hurdles and jump again from them across the water, than jumping as close to the hurdles as possible?

Posted: 10/11/2016 6:24 AM

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link_7777

Experienced player (852)

Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267

DrD2k9, I spent some time looking at your run and my old wip tonight. I started making some improvements. I've also been trying to stream some of my TAS efforts on twitch. Here is a wip of day 1. You'll notice high dive still syncs, but we should probably use your inputs for 10.0's instead. It will desync after that. Here is the wip: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/download/34223766845058273 Here are some other notes on your movie (more specific notes than i could make earlier today): You may notice that I delay 1 frame on the title screen. The point of this is to give me Korea as the fencing opponent instead of Russia (friendlier AI). You tried to max out triple jump at 19m 19, but from my old wip you can max it out at 21m 01 by starting on the right frame and using angles 49, 49, and 69. I suggest we just hit the qualification distance like in my wip for the run though. It is possible to legit throw the hammer 83m 04. I suggest we either throw the qualification distance or the glitch, whichever is faster. It is possible to hit 6m 62 in the pole vault, but I suggest we just hit the qualification height. your 5290 in canoeing was better than what was in my wip, but again I suggest we take shortcuts here to save time and just make sure to get the point threshold.[/url]

Posted: 10/13/2016 10:42 PM

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DrD2k9

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Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1012
Location: US

link_777 I basically restarted my run using my original as a baseline. Ill check your WIP when I get a chance. Just with what little I've reworked my own, it seems that the subtle changes have long lasting impacts on desyncs even using the same button combinations for a given event. I think this may be due to how the game polls for input. (for example: multiple frames of "up" presses are necessary to move the bar just one notch in pole vault). I've also decided that I'm only going to get the minimum necessary to qualify during the finals to save time, so not getting all gold medals if attaining one takes more time. I will also be adding in the exhibition events for completeness, as it has been suggested that the video would be incomplete without them.

Posted: 10/14/2016 3:33 AM

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link_7777

Experienced player (852)

Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267

yeah, it really depends on the event, but a lot of them are dependent on some sort of rng. Some of them, like high dive, can be moved around without sync issues though. I disagree on adding the exhibition events. Personally think a high score run that includes them would be great, but i think to start with we should shoot for a vault run. This means triggering the ending as soon as we can and skipping the exhibition events. Definitely some info should be included in the notes though. My old wip included the exhibition events so I have some good information. Gun firing in particular is sort of bad for entertainment value. By doing well you are awarded more time, and as a result the event drags on. It is a bit interesting that you wrap the score though. My max ended up at 202, though the in-game display wraps back from 200 to 100 and ends up showing 102. Hang gliding is a bit more simple and if you get there quickly and stop as fast as you can you can get a score of 255. I grabbed the inputs from your high dive, and I think they will work ok, though it would be nice to get 10.0 from all four judges, not just for the final score. I started on clay pigeon shooting, and it looks like you just found a spot in the rng you could repeat and just copy/paste the whole thing. Unfortunately you can manipulate the start of each disc and get much more favorable spawns. This is admittedly much more tedious. Also, back you your earlier point, much less sync friendly.

Posted: 10/14/2016 7:39 PM

Post subject: (hHopefully) Halfway there.

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DrD2k9

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Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1012
Location: US

Ok, So I've thus far re-completed the preliminary days. As I'm only going to qualify during the finals, they will hopefully only require minor tweaks to input. I looked at Link_777's wip after I had finished canoeing and my new attempt was already ahead by clay pigeon shooting. Here are my observations so far: Fencing Delaying game start at the title screen by 2 frames yielded a Chinese opponent that attacks. Triple Jump First Attempt: Qualify with minimal flight distance for first 2 jumps and 45 degree last jump Last two attempts: Foul for speed Swimming Freestyle and breaststroke mode are purely cosmetic resulting in the finish on the same frame. High Dive I couldn't get a perfect 10.0 from all four judges (RNG?) but still scored 10.0 per dive. Time isn't affected. Clay Pigeon Shooting Manipulating the launch of each clay by delaying 1-4 frames before the button press to launch resulted in most clays leaving from near the center. This allowed for less necessary movement of the targeting reticle as well as yielding less background movement necessary to re-center. This allowed for a quicker launch of the next clay after a given hit. Hitting all clays saves time over missing extra ones beyond a qualifying score. Hammer Throw Attempt one: A glitched throw is faster and farther than normal max throw. Other Attempts: A foul is faster than the glitch. Taekwondo Beneficial RNG (Finally!) causes the opponent to stand immediately after the first knockdown. The second comes in quick succession Pole Vault Attained minimal qualifying height, Then fouled asap on the following attempts. Canoeing First run - The fastest course (that qualifies for prelims) skips gates 4 , 7, and 15 and is about thirteen seconds faster than a max score run. Gate 4 is a backtrack; gates 7 and 15 are the loops. Second run - As straight through as possible to save time. Archery Achieved minimum score, then let arrows fall to save time. Hurdles Normal jumps as close to the beam as possible (to clear the water) and hops off the top of the beam are frame equal at the finish. Horizontal Bar I also believe the max score is 9.9. I finish as soon as possible given that the even is timed up to offering the "finish" option I have not yet added the exhibition events, and I have some questions. While eliminating them would get to the end credits faster, does the 'incompleteness' of the run disqualify it for publishing? If I do include the events for completeness (even considering this as a vault attempt), I could get the highest score possible without adding time to the gun shooting (which I believe is 39 points). As for hang gliding, I could either land as soon as available, or try for 255 points which I'm guessing would only be couple seconds difference. As a note, my current wip is 1144 frames faster than my original (crappy) submission just by the end of Day 1. Thoughts?

Posted: 10/14/2016 8:15 PM

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Kung_Knut

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Joined: 8/10/2016
Posts: 85
Location: Sweden

Good work, looking forward to the run. I'd argue for skipping exhibition in a fastest time run, as they are not necessary for completing the game. This is any% after all, right? A highest score run (would need to be moonable) should include them however. This would also make the two categories more different, increasing the chance of acceptance. (Are you considering doing such a run as well?)

Posted: 10/15/2016 4:42 AM

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DrD2k9

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Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1012
Location: US

Kung Knut, I think I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to be as entertaining as possible while still aiming strictly for vault on my current work. So it won't have the exhibition events after all. I'm just going to get to the end-game cut-scene ASAP. I've already spent quite a bit of time on this game, and I'm not sure if I want to trudge through it yet again. If you or Link_7777 are interested in completing a TAS in attempt for Moon tier, feel free to use any of my inputs that would benefit you. You could even mix and match your work with your favorite chunks of my earlier and current videos (once I submit it), tweaking where necessary to make it more entertaining. As it stands, my current work is slightly more entertaining than my previous just due to subtle RNG variations.

Posted: 10/15/2016 8:14 AM

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DrD2k9

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Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1012
Location: US

Complete and Submitted. Thank you all for your help and advice. http://tasvideos.org/5257S.html Discussion http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18485

Posted: 9/4/2018 8:32 PM

Post subject: Track and Field II

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Evan0512

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Joined: 10/18/2017
Posts: 161
Location: San Francisco

I made a video: Link to video Link to video Link to video

Planned runs: Marble Madness (Arcade, Genesis J, GG/SMS) Proposed: Ecco the Dolphin (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD: regular, camera freeze) Ecco: The Tides of Time (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD; normal mode) Mario Kart DS (all cups, all missions) In progress: Grand Poo World 3 (all exits hard mode)

Posted: 9/5/2018 2:42 AM

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Spikestuff

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Posts: 6337
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So gracious of him not to link the movie again. Here's the link to the userfile Evan made: User movie #49601806105296726 Before we go into it let's just talk about the elephant in the movie. Core QuickNes Please switch your core to NESHawk for future NES TASes when dealing with BizHawk. You can really see the quality of a TAS done in one day. Then again. If you know what you're doing and able to execute it well any Track & Field game should be finished and polished in a day. Evan never specified on why he actually made this but what we do know is that it's a Track & Field game and that requires a table.

Evan for the love of everything. Please learn how to TAS as you have been told so in the past instead of just going "Job's done. Let me for no reason show a TAS on one that already exists rather than comparing and writing notes and trying to execute a faster/better movie." Well in this case it shouldn't be feasible to improve on this movie in any way since it was improved on the previous iteration.

WebNations/Sabih wrote:

+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.

Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.

Posted: 9/5/2018 3:51 PM

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Evan0512

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Joined: 10/18/2017
Posts: 161
Location: San Francisco

On the first day I made it in 15m 5cm for triple jump!

Planned runs: Marble Madness (Arcade, Genesis J, GG/SMS) Proposed: Ecco the Dolphin (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD: regular, camera freeze) Ecco: The Tides of Time (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD; normal mode) Mario Kart DS (all cups, all missions) In progress: Grand Poo World 3 (all exits hard mode)

Posted: 9/5/2018 4:00 PM

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link_7777

Experienced player (852)

Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267

Thanks for the comparison Spikestuff. Did you save any frames by getting a shorter jump? The currently published movie was a collaboration with DrD2k9, so I didn't do extreme checking on every event, but it will probably be difficult to save too much. One big problem will be the clay pigeon spawns, any change means you'll probably have to rework those events and you could easily lose or gain a few frames based on the spawn luck

Posted: 10/1/2018 3:54 PM

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Evan0512

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Joined: 10/18/2017
Posts: 161
Location: San Francisco

On finals, the triple jump can go up to 18 meters. I will go up to 18.5 meters on it. Is it good?

Planned runs: Marble Madness (Arcade, Genesis J, GG/SMS) Proposed: Ecco the Dolphin (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD: regular, camera freeze) Ecco: The Tides of Time (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD; normal mode) Mario Kart DS (all cups, all missions) In progress: Grand Poo World 3 (all exits hard mode)

Posted: 10/1/2018 4:04 PM

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link_7777

Experienced player (852)

Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267

No. If you're aiming for speed like the current tas does then shorter is generally better as long as you qualify. If you're aiming for score it is possible to get as high as 21m 01, there is a video on YouTube or someone doing it with a turbo controller. I was able to reproduce it, but I found it to be very frame specific