MY WAITING IS OVER. I decided to submit no matter what.
Objectives
Takes damage to save time.
Uses an optimal character.
100% completion using Zero
Aims for fastest time possible.
Manipulate Luck.
Comments
This a tool-assisted speedrun of Mega Man X4 playing as the red hunter Zero, in which he tries to collect every collectible item in every stage listed as Heart Tanks, Sub Tanks and EX item that gives an extra two lives. Currently, this is the fastest run for this category, it was done on the USA version of the game, and it is faster than the JPN version, and that is due to the text but that is rare since usually the JPN version is faster by considering the text. The JPN ver was used in a great run played by zeroblaze777 on 2011 in 37:10, however, it is not slower by text only but also in action, someone can do a comparison video to verify. This was done on PCSX 0.1.3 on September 2014 which means before that BizHawk support PSX. It took 2 years to decide it's submission on TASVideos because I wasn't sure about it, I also provided an encode one year ago which can be seen above.
This run is only few seconds slower than the any% one done by Bernka since it doesn't include a single revisit to a certain stage to collect something unlike the X 100% run, or wasting time for getting an item like fighting or so but it includes good tricks like the the Iceless jump that can be seen in Dragoon stage 2nd area for taking the heart or in Walrus to get the EX item. It is called iceless because in Kuwanger in X1, the heart can only be picked up by using Boomerang Cutter or Charged Shot Gun Ice, and thanks to TAS, none of those things are needed anymore, which is same thing here as well as X3 to get the Sub Tank in Buffalo Stage. Most of tricks used was inspired from Bernka's run, the most useful is SDC that allows to kill bosses pretty fast and save a lot of time, watch Dragoon's fight for this.
Note that the time is not the same as in the video because it was converted to match BizHawk fps for PSX to make it accurate, it still the fastest though
Special Thanks
To Bernka, zeroblaze777 for there any% and 100% respectively. And don't forget to enjoy even if you accidentally saw the run.
Nach: I spent quite a bit of time deciding how to handle this run. In the end, I decided the following:
Most of the negative reviews did find the run entertaining, however they also found it extraneous.
In aiming for fastest completion, Zero is the optimal character, as he can kill the bosses faster.
In aiming for most items collected, X is the optimal character, as what Zero can collect in this game is a subset of what X can collect.
This run is very similar to [2032] PSX Mega Man X4 "Zero" by Bernka in 36:30.10, but this run makes some minor deviations to collect some barely noticeable items which do not otherwise contribute to the completion of the game or the entertainment of the run.
Since this run is not the highest item collection for the game, it is disqualified for vault. For Moon however, it is entertaining enough to be there. Yet in the end, I am going with A run for a proposed new branch for a game should offer compelling differences relative to previously published runs of that game. (Guideline), and since it does not, I am therefore rejecting it.
The only difference between "100%" and "any%" for Zero is simply him going a few steps out of his way in each stage to get useless upgrades that have no impact on later parts of the speedrun. The route is exactly the same, all boss fights are exactly the same, all movement is exactly the same outside of the small detours taken to get the extra items, etc..., so I can't see much justification for this run needing to be published alongside "Zero, any%" other than the fact that it meets vault criteria.
The only difference between "100%" and "any%" for Zero is simply him going a few steps out of his way in each stage to get useless upgrades that have no impact on later parts of the speedrun. The route is exactly the same, all boss fights are exactly the same, all movement is exactly the same outside of the small detours taken to get the extra items, etc..., so I can't see much justification for this run needing to be published alongside "Zero, any%" other than the fact that it meets vault criteria.
You are right but in the other side, Zero also has some items to collect and that what made me confused about submitting or not, so I tried and hopefully it gets accepted. Probably this will be a Vault since the only categories accepted fot vault is "any%" and "100%". But I did this TAS for fun after all.
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6437
Location: The land down under.
Criticisms:
Lack of mentioning of the more superior emulator (of the time) PSXjin which does run this game.
Lack of anything regarding the setup for pcsx-rr since this is one of the more annoying emulators to deal with.
Lack of creating your own level by level comparison and relying on someone else to do it (Which you held for a year).
I'll bring more later, 'cause I am going to check a bit more.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
Yes voted, it looks very optimized to my eyes and it's entertaining to watch.
About the Any% topic, I understand that this is very similar, but im not sure why pick Any% in favor of 100%. From the viewer perspective, I would rather watch this over the Any% because of the extra content it has.
In the other hand, McBobX, you should've submitted this way more sooner because now we have BizHawk (wich is way easier to TAS PSX games than PCSX and to encode). So not sure how the community will react to that. Nonetheless, loved watching your TAS and since you like to TAS for fun, I recommend you use BizHawk.
I voted YES because I love this run and the game itself. But I'm not sure whether this category's fit for TASVideos publication though, due to the great similarities between it and Zero any% run. I wish there would be some unexpected strategies, and that would make a difference.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Yes voted, it looks very optimized to my eyes and it's entertaining to watch.
About the Any% topic, I understand that this is very similar, but im not sure why pick Any% in favor of 100%. From the viewer perspective, I would rather watch this over the Any% because of the extra content it has.
In the other hand, McBobX, you should've submitted this way more sooner because now we have BizHawk (wich is way easier to TAS PSX games than PCSX and to encode). So not sure how the community will react to that. Nonetheless, loved watching your TAS and since you like to TAS for fun, I recommend you use BizHawk.
Definitely, I will start using BizHawk for PSX as you said since I also found that is easier to play and encode movies more than PCSX and PSXjin. I encoded the Rockman X3 All Stages done by Hetfield90 & nrg_zam and I didn't have problems unlike Castlevania SOTN on PSXjin or Megaman X6 on PCSX. Thank you
this movie was done a long time ago,so i suppose that should alleviate the emulator issue
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto.
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Lack of mentioning of the more superior emulator (of the time) PSXjin which does run this game.
I know that and also that the current Any% run uses PSXJin. I also tried to run the game with it but I had big problem that happens to usually while playing is that PSXJin, at a certain unknown time, it starts lagging every other frame which causes huge frame loss, but if I want to fix it I have to change some inputs, that as well costs a lot of frames, that's why I like to use PCSX more than PSXJin since that problem is not present and only some specific frames are lags which can be controlled and doesn't depend on the gameplay. I already asked for solution to that on PSX emulator forum on 2013 but no one responded.
Now, both of them will be obsolete, thanks to BizHawk that handles PSX perfectly.
P.S: Is this run will end up to be accepted or not?
Lack of mentioning of the more superior emulator (of the time) PSXjin which does run this game.
I know that and also that the current Any% run uses PSXJin. I also tried to run the game with it but I had big problem that happens to usually while playing is that PSXJin, at a certain unknown time, it starts lagging every other frame which causes huge frame loss, but if I want to fix it I have to change some inputs, that as well costs a lot of frames, that's why I like to use PCSX more than PSXJin since that problem is not present and only some specific frames are lags which can be controlled and doesn't depend on the gameplay. I already asked for solution to that on PSX emulator forum on 2013 but no one responded.
Now, both of them will be obsolete, thanks to BizHawk that handles PSX perfectly.
I do recall having the same problem with Megaman X6 wich is why I have all my X6 runs on PCSX (of course, I will be using BizHawk).
I do recall having the same problem with Megaman X6 wich is why I have all my X6 runs on PCSX (of course, I will be using BizHawk).
If you remember, Rolanmen1, on 2013 I PMed you for the purpose of auto-holding in PCSX, because in that time, I wanted to use PSXJin instead of PCSX since it supports auto-hold function but due to the problem mentioned above, I droped PSXJin and was sticking with PCSX and trying to find a way to auto-holding or at least hold multiple buttons at the same time
I do recall having the same problem with Megaman X6 wich is why I have all my X6 runs on PCSX (of course, I will be using BizHawk).
If you remember, Rolanmen1, on 2013 I PMed you for the purpose of auto-holding in PCSX, because in that time, I wanted to use PSXJin instead of PCSX since it supports auto-hold function but due to the problem mentioned above, I droped PSXJin and was sticking with PCSX and trying to find a way to auto-holding or at least hold multiple buttons at the same time
Oh, now that you meantion it, I do, didn't remember it was from you lol
I made 3 encodes of this run:
-An HD stream for YouTube
-A 512kb stream
-10bit encode
In subtitle, I put the time shown in the submission and the fps is at 60, and that makes difference between the time shown in the subtitle and the time in the encode in order to note that there was a conversion in fps to make it more accurate.
Edit: Uploaded HD stream to YouTube. Check submission again.
Something I've always wondered about: how come SSDC is used in favor of SDC against Split Mushroom when the second slash deals 1 damage to him?
Also, regarding targets that take 2 damage from the second slash, how come SDC is used on the large wall in Sky Lagoon 1 but SSDC is used on ugly face Sigma?
And I have a couple questions about strategies on the cannon Sigma fight:
1. It looks like the final Kuuenzan is overkilling him. Can the initial Ryuenjin be replaced by a Kuuenzan so that you can avoid having to pick up the large health?
2. If that Ryuenjin can't be replaced, can it at the very least be delayed so Sigma disappears after the damage is dealt to avoid subsequent hit lag?
Something I've always wondered about: how come SSDC is used in favor of SDC against Split Mushroom when the second slash deals 1 damage to him?
The SDC cannot be used on Split Mushroom because he takes damage only one time from first slash before the seconde one, after that it is available again to hit him with the first slash. So SSDC is the fastest way.
Hetfield90 wrote:
Also, regarding targets that take 2 damage from the second slash, how come SDC is used on the large wall in Sky Lagoon 1 but SSDC is used on ugly face Sigma?
Even if the seconde slash can give more damage on the wall, it still slower because you have to wait some frames and then do a seconde slash while you can do more SDC in those frames. About the ugly face, It should be from the last battle, I will see about it later.
Hetfield90 wrote:
1. It looks like the final Kuuenzan is overkilling him. Can the initial Ryuenjin be replaced by a Kuuenzan so that you can avoid having to pick up the large health?
2. If that Ryuenjin can't be replaced, can it at the very least be delayed so Sigma disappears after the damage is dealt to avoid subsequent hit lag?
I will test both of these two strats later and then come with improvement if possible, probably tomorrow, I'm busy from yesterday, sorry.
Thank you Hetfield90 for your notes. Here is the new version version of the run: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/35974485264847622
it is 43 frames improvement. I would like to replace the existing movie file with it. I have couple of notes to be added:
-The energy refill cannot be avoided because even if it was avoided during the battle, Zero picks it up immediately after killing the Sigma robot form.
-Avoiding the energy refill cost much frames and probably a time loss.
-Dashing before beginning the battle and using Shippuga to pick up the energy refill is slower than beginning normaly. Thanks to Rolanmen1 for this note.
-Ryuenjin was replaced with a Kuuenzan and the lag subsequent avoided.
Since I improved the run, it becomes a recent one, which means it is now a run of 2016.
Ah I see. It slipped my mind that Zero has to end the fight to the right of where the health is before his mandatory walk to the left side of the room.
I take it the second Ryuenjin was replaced with a Kuuenzan as well?
Also, did you find out any explanation as to why SSDC is more effective than SDC against ugly face Sigma but not the doors in Sky Lagoon 1 and Magma Dragoon 1 despite having the same damage values for all 3 enemies?
Ah I see. It slipped my mind that Zero has to end the fight to the right of where the health is before his mandatory walk to the left side of the room.
I take it the second Ryuenjin was replaced with a Kuuenzan as well?
Also, did you find out any explanation as to why SSDC is more effective than SDC against ugly face Sigma but not the doors in Sky Lagoon 1 and Magma Dragoon 1 despite having the same damage values for all 3 enemies?
Against ugly face, I search for a frame in which I have to attack with the sword and give 3 successive slash damage instead of 1 slash damage, that from the first slash, the seconde one will play the role of normal SDC because it gives only 1 slash damage so I have to cancel it with dash. The reason why this is effective is because canceling the first slash after 3 successive damages and then redo that slower than doing a seconde slash, cancel it and redo again. In addition, using SDC is the slowest way here.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
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I guess I'll try encoding this with EternalSPU when it's available.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
