Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Hyperresonance wrote:
I would really like it if a judge were able to weigh in on this. To be honest I'd really like to know now if this would be accepted for publication and if so if the set up file would be timed.
Note: The TAS has been made from SRAM, we HAVE a verification movie, and the TAS still starts from power on and actually sets up FFM in the movie and that is timed.
If it either would be not accepted or have the set up timed, I just will complete it with less RNG optimization so it can get done faster and just not submit it here. Having a final time slower than 100% for any% would be a giant dumb meme, and any% without FFM sucks.
Consider progress to be at a complete halt until I receive a straight answer to this.
Senior judge here to weigh in!
The SRAM generation file will not be timed. No previous TAS has timed that, nor does any TAS time itself any differently than the usual routine of start of input to end of input of one TAS file, not multiple. The timing of the SRAM generation file can be put in a footnote in the description if you want it, but it's not necessary.
From what I'm reading, I think the movie is certainly publishable. Since it uses SRAM it doesn't adhere to the (strict) definition of any%, but that doesn't mean it can't still be published - it just needs good feedback on entertainment in that case (which I doubt will be a major concern). As you mentioned having the verification movie ready, that won't be a problem either.
Regarding FFM in particular, and what I've seen and read of it, I think it's a fine use of SRAM. It doesn't use SRAM for the sake of skipping levels, skipping collectibles, or copying end-game progress data. Instead it enhances the player much in the same vein as typical newgame+ ventures. It doesn't come across as cheating your way to the end of the game, as other glitched SRAM runs of other games tried to do, and I don't think it really detracts from the game here. So, as far as I'm concerned, it's a valid way to use SRAM for a glitched NG+-like category.
I hope this was a straight enough answer for you. Please continue progressing with your run!
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Thank you for weighing in Moth. Your post certainly cleared up what I was concerned about.
I think most people in the banjo community will agree that FFM enhances the run by making the route more interesting, faster, yet not horribly game breaking because 810 note door forces you to visit each level.
Progress shall continue :) Expect TTC to be done quicker than Mumbo's likely because Blubber is just about the only random thing in the level that can mess with me.
I'm glad that this could be cleared up and we now know what to expect from a submission using FFM. I hoped to be proven wrong about this and I was.
Good luck with the TAS, Hyperresonance!
Current project: Gex 3 any%
Paused: Gex 64 any%
There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
I figured I would give a little update since it's been a while. I have finished up through about the first minute of TTC, and I have stopped progressing for a little while to confirm feather routing before I continue. Feather usage is tricky in any% and I need a lot for the lair flight sections, and determining which feathers to get and how many to use optimally is difficult. This is something I didn't spend that much time on in 100% and plan to make it much better this time around.
Additionally, Stivitybobo found a method for doing RBA on console on the NTSC version without using the cauldron. This provides for a way faster 100% route which has been known for a while, but nobody wanted to run it on the PAL version of the game. With this new trick, top level 100% runners of the game are now doing a route that does FP early and completes BGS as the last level in the run.
It's also been timed faster to actually split up FP into 2 trips again believe it or not. It's much more difficult but saves around 8 more seconds.
Link to video
Welp, another new development
Link to video
With Clanker's Early and RBA without the cauldron being possible on NTSC, my progress on PAL Any% is officially obsoleted. NTSC Any% is the way to go for the fastest run through. However...
The bee clip doesn't work on Bizhawk. Only Bizhawk.
I'm not sure what to do at this point. The clip works on Mupen, and is laughably easy to do. Mupen is no longer accepted, and PAL is probably around 20 seconds slower than NTSC for various reasons. I don't want to continue on PAL and have the clip fixed in the future and lose out on 20 seconds, but there's also no guarantee that will ever be fixed.
I'm thinking I will only continue this project if BizHawk developers make this clip possible. Not sure yet
If it only saves about 20 seconds, I would say just continue on PAL (unless there are other route changes that only work on NTSC or something). I'd say just TAS it on Mupen but the fact that this clip works easily on that is an emulation problem and similar things can be done in other locations that either don't work on console, or are much harder to do, IIRC.
I would be more than willing to make the TAS on Mupen if an exception can be made similar to Ocarina of Time. Mupen is more comparable to console for loading times, and physics as well. The only reason I did the 100% TAS on BizHawk is because of the first backflip not working for whatever reason in Mupen.
I don't like using Mupen very much but it would result in a much faster overall end time and make for a more entertaining movie with shorter loading zones everywhere. 640 Note Door Skip also works more like console on Mupen.
We would also have to make sure if clankers early works and a couple other small things as well. Once they are cleared up I could start.
considering what went with the recent OOT run,I'd recommend to take it to the staff before commiting to one option or the other
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
I am just gonna sum up that with runners from Banjo Kazooie now saying that they would prefer to use mupen, that makes it OoT, Mario64 and Banjo Kazooie. Pretty much 3 of the most popular n64 games who all don't wanna use bizhawk. I personally hope this bizhawk only policy gets abandoned from TASvideos
I am just gonna sum up that with runners from Banjo Kazooie now saying that they would prefer to use mupen, that makes it OoT, Mario64 and Banjo Kazooie. Pretty much 3 of the most popular n64 games who all don't wanna use bizhawk. I personally hope this bizhawk only policy gets abandoned from TASvideos
Agreed. It's been a disaster.
I think you should switch to Mupen. They'll definitely allow you to submit it from that. The reasons you gave for using Mupen are already compelling, but there's no way they won't want an any% for a game as popular/loved as this, so it'll be accepted.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
I agree that Mupen64PlusHawk has failed to prove itself as a superior emulator choice to Mupen64-rr at this point. (The mere uttering of this sentence shows just how horrible the general state of N64 emulation is right now).
I would be up to unban Mupen64 at this point, but the main issue with it is still that it is a complete nightmare to encode for (as has already been discussed in the SM64 topic a week ago). If that were to get solved somehow, then I would unban Mupen64. (At least until Mupen64Hawk has sorted out its emulation issues considerably).
In the meantime, I'm open to further Mupen64 exceptions, if you get a publisher arranged for your submission in advance (like the recent OoT submission did).
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Thanks Moth. I'll work on getting a publisher.
Meanwhile, it's a good thing I'm restarting anyways, because TTC Early is now confirmed on console and will be used in the TAS! This skips 2 jiggies and a level opening cutscene.
Link to video
Yep at least it's proof it's doable on console though lol...
Anyways, I figured people would appreciate to see my progress before all this stuff was found, so here it is:
Link to video
Yep at least it's proof it's doable on console though lol...
Anyways, I figured people would appreciate to see my progress before all this stuff was found, so here it is:
Link to video
Awesome! :) That was really entertaining, even without the newly discovered tricks! This only makes me more excited to see the new product!!
I've been working on a TAS of Sandcastle% (Any% with sandcastle cheats). It's not fully optimized but it's very close. I'm not going to submit it because of the cheats but I thought I'd share a WIP for those who are interested: https://youtu.be/ehVSbDGPEp4
Everything up to entering Mumbo's Mountain is the button file from me and Hyperresonance's any% progress but everything after is my inputs. I'll put up a button file when it's done. I also put a bit more info in the youtube description :)
This happened today: https://clips.twitch.tv/OilyOilyStarBatChest
I was pretty sceptical at first but after watching the surrounding video of the stream I'm a bit more convinced. Apparently just before the fade out he dropped his controller.
https://youtu.be/3TZ0n-Fh8Pw
Using the fall speed and a lag frame you can get through the stair. The ground is solid underneath and you can just jump into MMM. This saves about 2-3 minutes in 100% and 5-6 minutes in any%. It might possibly be PAL only, but I'm still looking into it. Here's a button file for Bizhawk 1.12.2: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/48969253993732176
This happened today: https://clips.twitch.tv/OilyOilyStarBatChest
I was pretty sceptical at first but after watching the surrounding video of the stream I'm a bit more convinced. Apparently just before the fade out he dropped his controller.
This video has since been deleted, but the relevant part was archived by Exchord here: https://youtu.be/v7P7Lz1mevY
https://youtu.be/3TZ0n-Fh8Pw
Using the fall speed and a lag frame you can get through the stair. The ground is solid underneath and you can just jump into MMM. This saves about 2-3 minutes in 100% and 5-6 minutes in any%. It might possibly be PAL only, but I'm still looking into it. Here's a button file for Bizhawk 1.12.2: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/48969253993732176
That was Mad Monster Mansion early which used eggs. Since then I've done it without eggs on Bizhawk (still requires the lag frames). https://youtu.be/dcfJenQSSUQ
You literally just need to remove the c-down presses for egg pooping in that button file in the quote and you can even skip Grunty text earlier. It's still PAL only as far as we know
