This topic is for the purpose of discussing #5744: fcxiaopengyou & MESHUGGAH's NES North & South in 00:54.56

Comments on the newly uploaded movie User movie #43772755409293983: - first of all, good job fcxiaopengyou :) - using "disaster" also changes enemies' route on the world map (as the disaster itself also moves) - so luck manipulation is 2 frames delay for this route (f898 starting the game, 1 frame + 1 lag frame) Given these informations, might be possible improvement: - using "indians" also changes enemies' route(another unit for the world map), so other delays at start might saves frames (as well lose, because of animations). Also note the "indians" will mostly stay at one point. Check the FAQ for more information here Probably will take a few stabs on the weekend. edit: to try improving it.

- indians doesn't seem to attack early in the game, no matter how many delays I used or other difficulties - reinforcements (3rd options with a ship image) only starts from ~5th turns I've tried a lot of delays, but your's is the best so far (disaster stops last enemy from going to the train). Also checked with indians, but even if it was faster to start the fights, the disaster went "wrong places", not stopping the left guy. So I'm pretty sure that this is the best setting (only disaster) and delay (2 frame delay) as your movie. Trying and will report here once I finished checking battle scenes (for random 1-2 frames) edit1: - bizhawk neshawk loads the game 1 frame faster (f829) before the delayed start (which is ~f899). syncs perfectly and doesn't changes outcome - the extra 2 frame delay is also the best before the first fight (so the horsies comes from the top) edit2 and 3: - 5 frames can be saved in 1st battle by pausing and unpausing at the beginning. If done correctly, the last frame of last position update for the soldiers is f2305 instead of f2310 - this also can be used at 2nd battle but unfortunately it also affects enemy units (cannon for sure, not sure about soldiers) movie with pause trick only for 1st battle User movie #43824651158289541

Using pause to save time is a great idea to reduce the opening music. Reduced delays. I retried the enemy mobile position yesterday, and a better way to do that was to combine the two sides into one army, which would have saved us a lot of time by fighting only once. Although the cloud did not directly affect the marching army, but it affected luck, I tried to cancel the clouds, but in that case the army on the right would go directly south instead of heading west. This is the latest film, which saves a lot of time: User movie #43839468433754299 (in 0:57.77)

First of all, awesome find! - the cloud is required for this setup as the left side army of the enemy (north) would go for the train station - grouping up or doing any other route on the world map would lead to either: 1: left side enemy going for train station 2: right side enemy attacking you if they are adjacent tile So your movie route (for cloud manipulation) is - 2 frames delayed start (1 lag 1 non lag) - 9 frames delay before grouping - 2 frames delay before last movement It looks like it's already best one. Will edit this post if I find something battle-wise. edit1: - 1 frame can be saved by using the pause trick later (f2495 T, f2498 T) so last soldier update is at f2644 - 1 lag frame can be avoided when using soldiers by attacking earlier (f2865 A) - few frames can be saved by killing the 1st soldiers ASAP, so they respawn earlier Regarding spawn... I think that the middle-bottom spawn could be faster (1 extra delay before last world map movement) because we don't need to use our soldiers and also the soldiers will be closer to our horsies. edit2: unfortunately it's not faster, because soldiers will spawn on top next time, so it looks your route / spawn is better, will upload movie and link here edit3: User movie #43866451346025576 key points: - 3028 soldier respawn instead of 3033 - 3116 horse respawn instead of 3117 Also I slashed the bottom cannon while slashing the remaining soldiers

edit1: - 1 frame can be saved by using the pause trick later (f2495 T, f2498 T) so last soldier update is at f2644 - 1 lag frame can be avoided when using soldiers by attacking earlier (f2865 A) - few frames can be saved by killing the 1st soldiers ASAP, so they respawn earlier Regarding spawn... I think that the middle-bottom spawn could be faster (1 extra delay before last world map movement) because we don't need to use our soldiers and also the soldiers will be closer to our horsies. edit2: unfortunately it's not faster, because soldiers will spawn on top next time, so it looks your route / spawn is better, will upload movie and link here

That's very delicate discovery! I apply for this movie to be submitted as our collaboration. Besides, the movie can be cut short by don't killing the artilleryman after the combat. if this can be taken into consideration.

Good idea! Here's my fastest so far for shortest input (so artilleries/cannons retreat after a while, only when there's no other remaining units for the enemy) User movie #43866985264920821 3402 frames edit: 3379 frames User movie #43867160968384273 edit2: 3370... will upload when I can't find more edit3: 3366 final version! User movie #43867517969696939 Optimization points: - killing soldiers as soon as possible - enough U (Y pos) and R (X pos) to kill the final horse - going down and right to kill the remaining soldiers - the final 3 slashes (final horse, first 2 soldiers, last 4 soldiers) are done in chain (as soon as I can fire again). Considering these, I don't think any other frames could be saved. Also I kindly accept to be co-author, despite you destroying the game :)

lol, fine, actually I changed the initial position of the enemy, stopped in f3314, that should be the fastest one I think…User movie #43869903779183711

Currently investigating remaining possibilities. Some notes: 1. delays on world map can be mixed up with same world map movements, sometimes resulting in a 5 frames faster start of a battle. Unfortunately, when this happens, the enemy horses won't start running as soon as possible (an easy way to watch this is adding 4 - 5 or 6 frames delay before last movement) 2. the B-B-B trick to manipulate soldiers: I don't see other way to manipulate them higher without losing more time (for example moving soldiers forward yields in same enemy soldiers Y pos after descending) edit: User movie #43908987289889514 3299 frames - improvement statrs after slashing the final horses, chaining the last attacks as soon as possible on the soldiers while ascending and retreating (y/x pos)

Nice improvement. I saved it 4 frames (1+3 lag) with your film. User movie #43923948059792380 3295 frames

User movie #43929394789958781 3279, Removed the 2nd B-B-B with different ascending

Perfect, I tried to improve, but it didn't work, I felt like it was the fastest :D

I also tried to improve without success. The only possible improvement I see is maximizing the Y/X pos from final horses to final soldiers. Will edit this post if I give up :) edit: I give up, couldn't improve it furthermore. We are done :)

Congratulations, yes vote for this frame war. English is a little hard for fcxiaopengyou. Maybe MESHUGGAH can edit the information of submission, too.

This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [3591] NES North & South by fcxiaopengyou & MESHUGGAH in 00:54.56