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Mario & Luigi Bowser's Inside story is the third game in the series. Fawful is back and he wants to take over the mushroom kingdom. He gives a lucky? shroom to Bowser which gives him the ability to vacuum. Bowser then swallows everyone at the castle. Mario & Luigi must then team-up with Bowser to prevent Fawful from reaching his goal.

Game objectives

Version

Text is the same speed between japanese and english. It turns out that fire attacks in giant battles are a few seconds faster in the japanese version, but I still went with the english version.

RNG manipulation

A big part of the run is RNG manipulation. The formula is RNG(x) = floor(20.5x)&0x7fff + (x%2)*0x8000. RNG only changes when necessary in battle which means that I have to manipulate before the battle. The initial seed depends of the frame you enter the frame so I just wait until I get a good seed.

Battle comments

Bowser

The figth ends when you deal 20 damage after Toadsworth is gone.

Goombule

I delay the kill to prevent another one from spawning.

Goombule x2

Same thing for this fight.

Elite Goombule x2

This fight is pretty straightforward. Just use green shell.

Spike Blob x2

Again, I want to delay the kill.

Midbus

Another really straightforward fight.

Broque monsieur

I manipulate his attack and a lucky hit.

Sea pipe statue

Here, I manipulate 2 lucky hits. I also want three attacks both time and I want stone blooper to only spin once.

Scutlet

It is faster to jump than using green shell

Broggy

Just alternate between fire and punch.

Treevil

Using fire is faster for this fight

Wiggler

I manipulate 2 lucky hits and I avoid the turnip.

Durmite

Jumping is still faster. I want to avoid the straw as much as possible.

Bowser's castle

This is a straightforward fight

Midbus

I get hit to get a drumstick which gives a power boost. Shy guy squad is faster than punching. I also only get great to avoid cheering

Tenderling x2

Another straightforward fight

Kretin

I need a lucky hit to avoid kretin reforming.

Fawflant x2

Another straightforward fight.

Bowser

I use jump helmet for this fight.

Yikk tower

It's faster to use fire at the start and to let the tower repair.

Wisdurm

I get 2 lucky hits at the start to make the fight a lot faster.

Fawful express

This is another straightforward fight.

M&L memory

I target luigi first until he leaves, then I kill mario.

Sockop x4

I use Yoo-who cannon for a quick fight.

Chackron

Snack basket is required to finish this fight.

Junker

This is a quick fight. I also get special gloves.

Blizzard Midbus

I get fury to make this fight faster.

Dark Star

I get a lucky hit to make this fight a lot faster. I also get D-Star wear to help on damage.

Super peach's castle

Another straightforward fight.

Dark Fawful

I get 2 lucky hits on the helmet to kill it quickly. Then I use magikoopa mob to finish fawful off.

Dark Bowser / Dark Star Core

I use magikoopa for Dark Bowser and jump helmet for Dark Star. I get a lucky to end the fight quickly.

Tricks

Ledge clip

Similarly to Partners in Time, if Mario and Luigi stack under a low ceiling, they warp upwards. The only use in the run is to skip the air balloon tutorial.

Ledge boost

Mario can get a boost when walking off a ledge. The size of the boost depends on the angle of movement relative to the angle of the ledge and the distance to the ledge the frame before walking off it.

Toad boost

When entering an NPC's hitbox from above, Mario is boosted out of its hitbox.

Special thanks

Thanks to Hibari for getting a great WR. This was a good base for my routing.
Thanks to the M&L community for the support everytime I released a WIP.
Memory: Claiming for judging
Memory: Delaying until we can figure out what to do with the microphone input.
Memory: I think we have the microphone thing settled, now back to judging.
Memory: Updated file to have sample included
Memory: Optimization is for the most part good. There was one timesaver found 9 years ago by me that saved like 15 seconds that was completely forgotten for some reason and one new timesaver that was discovered long after submission but these things are not worth rejecting over in a nearly 5 hour run.
To me, the movie was not extremely entertaining but I feel I am a little biased in that regard due to my personal history with the game. There isn't too much flashy, but there are some clever moments here and there and some good movement when it comes to avoiding encounters. The game is extremely popular and the movie got all but one yes vote, leading me to believe I am the outliar in this case.
There was a code used to skip a section that otherwise consists of waiting for an arbitrary amount of time. This code can be found in game through normal means and was agreed to be considered intended normal play.
A modified release of desmume was created to be able to store microphone samples in movie files. We now request runs using microphone use this release from here on.
Accepting to Moons.
Not Spikestuff: Here lies Spikestuff he died Publishing this.

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Posted: 10/9/2018 12:27 AM
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TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6124: vince1919's DS Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story in 4:49:49.35
Posted: 10/9/2018 12:33 AM
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EZGames69
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Been watching the progression of this TAS and loved every WIP that was posted of it. Glat to see it’s finally here (and rip to the poor soul who has to possibly publish it). This was my favorite in the MaL series, so obvious from me.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Posted: 10/9/2018 12:37 AM
Post subject: Input combination
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Memory
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Important to note, this TAS uses a hidden input combination that is not given to you anywhere in the game which skips the waiting period where Bowser's back is hurt.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Posted: 10/9/2018 12:42 AM
Post subject: Re: Input combination
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Patashu
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Memory wrote:
Important to note, this TAS uses a hidden input combination that is not given to you anywhere in the game which skips the waiting period where Bowser's back is hurt.
Is this expected to be a problem for acceptance? It doesn't sound like it gives any gameplay advantage or change the route (contrast with the GT code in Super Metroid for example).
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Posted: 10/9/2018 12:43 AM
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vince1919
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Actually Toadbert talks about it at a specific time in the story.
Posted: 10/9/2018 12:44 AM
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Memory
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vince1919 wrote:
Actually Toadbert talks about it at a specific time in the story.
Does he? The input combination?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Posted: 10/9/2018 12:48 AM
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vince1919
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If you talk to him in toad square he'll talk about a weird dream where everything is going slow. Then he heard someone press ABXYLRYXBA and everything went fast.
Posted: 10/9/2018 1:11 AM
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Taechuk
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It is possible to speed up the process, so that the player does not have to wait very long at all. By talking to Toadbert in Toad Square after defeating Bowser Memory ML, he will tell Mario and Luigi that he was having a weird dream, which foreshadows the event in the Lumbar Nook. He mentions a code: "A B X Y L R Y X B A". When this code is entered, time speeds up and Bowser's back is healed in seconds.
Taken directly from the wiki : https://www.mariowiki.com/Lumbar_Nook
Posted: 10/9/2018 2:50 AM
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Migu
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Great work Vince, this game finally gets the TAS it deserves. Love the manipulation especially in the final few battles. RIP Spikestuff again (also this doesn't matter at all but felt like mentioning, the RNG algorithm uses a multiplication by 20.5, not 40.5)
Posted: 10/9/2018 3:21 AM
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Spikestuff
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo And that concludes my thoughts on this TAS.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Posted: 10/9/2018 3:42 AM
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Cyorter
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I knew Spike will react like this... oh god rip
Posted: 10/9/2018 10:55 AM
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vince1919
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Migu wrote:
(also this doesn't matter at all but felt like mentioning, the RNG algorithm uses a multiplication by 20.5, not 40.5)
Nice typo. I was thinking of 41/2 and 20.5 when writing this.
Posted: 10/12/2018 8:10 PM
Post subject: Re: #6124: vince1919's DS Mario & Luigi Bowser's Inside Story in 4:49:49.35
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Memory
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TASVideoAgent wrote:
Use this mic sample: <a>https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6o6b371ayjriaz/Zeldanoise095.wav?dl=0</a>
Uh it seems that using custom mic samples isn't currently covered in the rules. Given that the built in noise sample does not work for this game, we will need to address this.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Posted: 10/12/2018 8:21 PM
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vince1919
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The problem is that the internal sample doesn't work for fire attacks in giant battles. It was the only option and I didn't see anything in the rules regarding microphone.
Posted: 10/12/2018 8:22 PM
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Memory
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vince1919 wrote:
The problem is that the internal sample doesn't work for fire attacks in giant battles. It was the only option and I didn't see anything in the rules regarding microphone.
I tested it myself. Given that the game is unable to be completed without the usage of some other noise sample, we will need to find some way to allow this in our rules.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Posted: 10/12/2018 8:34 PM
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feos
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This has been predicted a month ago:
feos wrote:
Omnigamer wrote:
I think the rules written in feos's post are fair. The only thing that would be good to clarify is that an image may not just be a disc image - other unique games might use special peripherals for physical media such as barcodes, pictures, audio waveforms, and more. Assuming that the emulator was suitably developed to interact with this content, they seem like identical cases to CDs.
I generally agree, but I can't be so certain in a rule with unlimited scope. I'd prefer to limit it to game images for now, and when something different appears, use the spirit of the rule, clarifying it if needed. Otherwise, it'd be better to namely list things whose input can potentially be used in a similar way. But I can't say "X, Y, Z, and anything similar". In some cases we might never need this limitation probably.
Relevant rule that only talks about "arbitrary" extra images, but can be expanded to talk about any arbitrary data that the game may obtain from a peripheral: http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#RomImageMustBeIntegral Thread explaining why we can't allow literally arbitrary data from such peripherals: Thread #20426: Clear cut rules for arbitrary extra CDs? /0
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Posted: 10/14/2018 6:34 AM
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qqwref
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It sounds like you're suggesting that the microphone can only be used when the game explicitly asks for it. That seems generally reasonable and probably what any TAS of a mic-enabled game would actually do, although I can imagine someone might want to save time by starting to add sound through the microphone slightly before the game explicitly asks for it. However, I think there is a fundamental difference between inserting CDs and inserting audio data through the microphone. CDs (or 'images' as the rules say) are inserted into the place where the console expects to read game data, and furthermore, much of the data given to the game in practice is copyrighted data that we should not be storing (specifically, other games). To compare, the microphone is a peripheral specifically designed to take input from the user, and the input used that way is generally not copyrighted media, but some semi-random information the user themself generates. Even if we pass a pre-existing audio file to the game's mic data reader, as is done in Bizhawk, all we're really doing is exactly controlling what a user inputs into the system. This is the same as what a TAS already does with the controller buttons, and ought to be treated the same: any input is valid and it's up to the TASer to choose input that completes the run quickly.
Posted: 10/14/2018 8:33 AM
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feos
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Yeah, with general input data coming from a peripheral, I'm not so sure we must limit ourselves to how we handle game images. When its about whether we're still playing the same game anymore, we always should be sure that yes, we are, the game image is 100% authentic and unmodified. But when it's about regular input data, just sent from a peripheral that allows infinite variety of data, we only need to be sure this data is free, reproducible, and considerably optimal. But there hasn't been any specific decision on that yet. Thought I'm sure the numbered list of requirements about the nature if this input will persist. Because not following them introduces potential for serious problems.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 10/27/2018 1:55 PM
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Memory
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The audio file this TAS uses is copyright free (it's the sound of someone blowing) but it does not seem to be easily reproducible. Should we decide to use similar rules to that of disc images, this TAS might or might not sync with a handcrafted file. It would also seem to me to be a little cruel to force the TASer to redo this movie if a generic file does not sync given the TAS's length.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Posted: 10/27/2018 2:58 PM
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feos
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I believe reproducibility is a sensible requirement set for similar cases. It's really common for audio or video commentaries linked from our publication to have died, and now the commentary flag is moot for them. I don't want the entire TAS publication to become moot once an audio sample required for it becomes unavailable. There's literally be no easy way to watch or reencode it anymore. It could happen that the sample used is the most optimal by coincidence, and upon trial and error, no one manages to recreate it. So if its upload dies, the publication is rendered invalid. I don't think we should allow such a risk. It'd be better to learn how this particular sample influences gameplay and why, then it'd at least be possible to know the sync-mandatory aspects of this particular sample. And just like the extra image rules say, the data used should at least try to be optimal. Am I right that here it's just a random occasional sample with no optimality clues?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 10/27/2018 3:18 PM
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creaothceann
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The data could be part of the input file.
Posted: 10/27/2018 3:26 PM
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feos
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Only if it's small enough.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 10/27/2018 3:35 PM
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Memory
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So feos and I talked a bit and we agreed that it would be best to research what is required to pass the mic segments in the game. We would like to see if there is a way to make a minimalist audio file that does the bare minimum and still is able to beat the game. If any people would like to look into it, it would be appreciated. EDIT: I'll be setting this to delayed in the meantime.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Posted: 10/27/2018 3:39 PM
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feos
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Yes the best possible solution would be knowing for sure how audio samples affect gameplay here. If it's unrealistic, we could try trimming the sample until it stops working, and then setting its bytes to 00 until it stops working. That would allow to figure out which bytes have to be what for the movie to sync. It'd also be nice if someone applies trial and error to check how those bytes affect gameplay. So without disasm this method is the most effective one. If even that fails to happen, we'll have a staff poll and think of a backup solution. So we really encourage everyone to ask for help with this everywhere they can, if they care about this submission.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 10/27/2018 3:50 PM
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ais523
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I think it's reasonable to treat a microphone like a controller; any sound that the microphone is capable of picking up seems like valid input to me (as a user sitting at the console could input it via making the right sounds). In fact, it's considerably more legitimate than things like left+right (which couldn't be input without damage to the console). This is different from, say, expansion port input, as creating your own expansion cards is not part of normal play and not an intended input method.
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